I don't feel VIP at all
By
AcceleratorRay,
Posted on: 2012-08-22 15:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Want to do some research before you comment? There is no rent or fee FOR ANY SIZE PLOT. All plot sizes have zero rent "and that has been that way for a while."|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
There is no rent or fee for the first plot and that has been that way for a while.
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The rent is based on what you put *IN* the base (like storage items).
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Yes, I think you do too.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
I
 think I know who you're talking about |
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| Ugh, I feel dirty using that many smilies. |
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Forbin Project tends to jump headfirst, so yeah he is wrong as usual.
There is no rent or fee for the first plot and that has been that way for a while. But yes some VIP members can take care of the rent issue. |
ROFLMAO! Well at least you've dated yourself on how long it's been since you've played the game. Or at least how long it's been since you've done anything with bases which would be December 2, 2008 when the current base rent went into effect.
Original Rent System
The original base rent system was both a rent and a tax. While the exact calculation is unknown for several parts of this formula,
(X * Z) + Y = rent
X = total amount of unspent prestige sg currently has as corresponding to a look up table. Ex: 10,000 free prestige would be 2, and 13,000 would be 3
Z = total number of objects subjectable to the tax (ex: control items, power items.. this excludes most decorations)
Y = rent charged per plot size + rent per room
The Table used in the Y portion of the equation is currently unknown, but most likely is similar to the calculations made in the second rent system, just at a larger amount.
The X amount can be lowered down to 0, thus avoiding the tax portion of equation provided the base architect has kept a good track of when the base rent will be calculated, and spends all loose prestige ahead of time.
Second Rent System
Base Rent was calculated solely on your plot size. The larger the plot, the larger the rent. Secure plots also paid more rent, due to the number of defenses they are allowed to have. The intent was that if they were re-introduced, Items of Power would reduce the amount of Rent due.
Tiny Hidden Spot 8x8 0
Small Hidden Spot 8x12 20,000
Hidden Spot 12x12 43,000
Small Secret Location 12x16 65,000
Secret Location 16x16 105,000
Large Secret Location 16x20 145,000
Small Secure Location 12x16 200,000
Small Hidden Complex 20x20 200,000
Hidden Complex 20x24 280,000
Large Hidden Complex 24x24 350,000
Secure Location 16x16 420,000
Massive Hidden Complex 24x28 610,000
Large Secure Location 16x20 750,000
Small Secure Complex 20x20 1,300,000
Secure Complex 20x24 2,100,000
Large Secure Complex 24x24 3,200,000
Massive Secure Complex 24x28 5,000,000
Current Rent System
Beginning in Issue 13, base rent is calculated based on the number of a few specific items placed in a base. Plot size and security/hidden status no longer have any effect on rent. Please note that Items of Power no longer provide Upkeep bonuses under this new system.
Storage Items (per bin) 100 prestige
Auto-Doc / Tree of Wonders 100 prestige
Combat Logs / Contemplation Charts 100 prestige
Robo-Surgery / Spirit Signal 100 prestige
Advanced Worktable / Advanced Forge 100 prestige
Expert Worktable / Expert Forge 100 prestige
Robotic Fabricator / Flames of Hephaestus 100 prestige
Radiation Emulator / Enchanting Crucible 100 prestige
Linear Accelerator / Arcane Crucible 200 prestige
Supercollider / Mystic Crucible 300 prestige
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Well, that for me falls under the umbrella of "bad management".
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That and the customer service was nonexistant.
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Try not to sell your opinion of the perks you don't care about as facts.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
+1.
At this point of the thread we have people arguing how great minor perks are. That is fine, but don't try sell it as amazing perks, because that is not the case. |
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| The funny thing is the most populated servers are still Freedom and Virtue, not the designated VIP server. That says it all really. |
And something it doesn't say is that those people who did want to go somewhere just for VIPs probably think it's worth paying $15 month to get it, at least with the other stuff that $15 brings.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
It might be reasonable if there were less stuff included with the subscription but more points given.
Of course, certain carrots they include with the subscription are worth significantly less than they charge a la carte (server transfer tokens, most notably, but the sin is not that they include one free each month, but rather that they charge way too much for them).
The sub is a huge value to me. But if I played few alts, stayed on one server, and preferred leveling content (actually, I generally do prefer leveling content, although I like the Incarnate stuff too), I might prefer not to have 12 slots per server and incarnate access, but rather would prefer an extra 200 points a month.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Our devs give out the standard industry monthly stipend, and charge less for server transfers than many MMO's charge for the same service which is around $25 bucks. |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It might be reasonable if there were less stuff included with the subscription but more points given.
Of course, certain carrots they include with the subscription are worth significantly less than they charge a la carte (server transfer tokens, most notably, but the sin is not that they include one free each month, but rather that they charge way too much for them). |
So no matter what the devs decide to charge there will always be someone complaining that the price is too expensive.
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That tickles.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The level of inompetence
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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An amusing sentiment, giving the vivisecting you received from several other posters down-thread.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Forbin Project tends to jump headfirst, so yeah he is wrong as usual.
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Protip: when you don't know what you're talking about, leave your keyboard idle.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Facts are just another minor perk for VIPs.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
An amusing sentiment, giving the vivisecting you received from several other posters down-thread.
Protip: when you don't know what you're talking about, leave your keyboard idle. |
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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Some of the VIPs in this thread need to call customer support then, some seem to have their facts on the fritz. |
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Facts are just another minor perk for VIPs.
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LOL minor perks?|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
+1.
At this point of the thread we have people arguing how great minor perks are. That is fine, but don't try sell it as amazing perks, because that is not the case. The funny thing is the most populated servers are still Freedom and Virtue, not the designated VIP server. That says it all really. |
The ability to run my solo SG without needing anyone else - not really a MINOR perk imo; especially considering I have billions in storage.
Incarnate content alone is not a "minor" perk - since a lot of the resources are continuing to go into the end game by the dev team - an end game which I thoroughly enjoy and spend about 90% of my game time doing.
Your "minor" perks are just that... your minor perks. The incarnate system is what kept me from cancelling my sub as "the journey" to 50 again and again...grew tiring for me after 6 years.
Regarding Exalted - why would I leave my home server for a new one?? I have my base...and more importantly my friends on my server. I never quite understood the logic behind Exalted...unless it was to steer clear of the occasionally obnoxious freebie/freemium which is what /gignore is for imo.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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It says that Freedom and Virtue have been the most populated servers since launch, and the creation of a new VIP-only server by itself isn't sufficient to attract players from their established communities. I think a lot of people have characters on Exalted, but I think most don't play there much. I have characters on Exalted, but I prefer to play on Champion.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
+1.
At this point of the thread we have people arguing how great minor perks are. That is fine, but don't try sell it as amazing perks, because that is not the case. The funny thing is the most populated servers are still Freedom and Virtue, not the designated VIP server. That says it all really. |
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Yeah, I've created a few characters on Exalted, but Virtue is my home server and I see no reason to move. Now, if Exalted was always on double XP or something, then I might frequent it... |
Originally Posted by BellaStrega
It says that Freedom and Virtue have been the most populated servers since launch, and the creation of a new VIP-only server by itself isn't sufficient to attract players from their established communities. I think a lot of people have characters on Exalted, but I think most don't play there much. I have characters on Exalted, but I prefer to play on Champion.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I just don't even get that argument. "Hay guyz, the seven-year old (at Freedom's launch, eight years now) well-established communities on Virtue and Freedom didn't break up to reform on Exalted. This totes proves that VIP isn't worth it." Huh?
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
I couldn't have stated it better myself Bella. I've been on Virtue forever and part of an amazing RP group. Why should we move to the new server when we have an entire community already established on Virtue. Exalted is nice for stressless play, but most of my time is spent with the friends I have on Virtue and some of them are now premium players. I think Exalted not being highly populated states a lot about the VIP community, we don't have a stick up our tushes.
To the point. This thread boils down to wanting things we didn't ALWAYS get for free anyway. We had to pay for some powers before Freedom went live under the guise of expansions. Do new VIPs get them for free now, yes. But we have had time to play around and veteranize our builds.
And please don't get me started on costume sets. We were paying for those outside of expansions.
Nothing has changed and if you want to wait for your stipend of points it won't effect you. Now, we're getting powersets and costume sets much fater than before. I have no problem with this. There's no "pay to win" here because not having the powers or costume pieces doesn't break the game. Patience is all that is lacking and speaking as someone who is now unemployed I will have to play the patience game and I don't mind one bit.
Basically, there are a few related but not completely coupled arguments I'm getting here from the folks who dislike what VIP delivers.
Why don't we get more powersets or costumes or what-have-you for the price of our subscription?I feel this one has been thoroughly responded to. The answer is that paying extra is what's allowing more stuff to be put out faster. If it was included in the rate of subscription fees, which did not go up with Freedom, and given that the total number of full-time subscribers may have gone down, the devs would be making less and be less able to produce more stuff per unit time. Paying more for certain things is how the devs are trying to increase revenues. Without increased revenue, there cannot be increased dev activity.
I can get more points in the same time by just spending that money on points. Therefore VIP is a bum deal.This assumes that nothing else that comes with VIP status is important to the customer. If that is the case, then yes, for that customer, a subscription is not a good deal. They should cease to pay for VIP status and spend their money on points directly. However, posters need to stop making universal claims about the value of VIP-only features. Just because you do not value something does not mean it is considered low-value to even a large segment of other players. For example, I would pay for a VIP subscription just for Incarnate access.
(This also seems to assume that a player is either already at or has the means to quickly jump up to probably at least Tier 7 Paragon Rewards rank. A Premium account with a low Tier rating loses access to potentially important features such as Inventions, ATs and character slots that would be available if they had VIP status.)
Shouldn't the devs be doing things that make me want to pay for VIP status?I see this as something of looking a gift horse in the mouth. Relating back to my parenthetical comments above, most folks who feel free to drop down from Premium to VIP status feel free to do so because of the Paragon Rewards tiered feature unlocks. This system was put in place to (a) reward those who had been long-time subscribers before Freedom, and (b) reward future players who invested comparable expenditures in either VIP subscriptions, raw points purchases, or both. Complaining that VIP status becomes less valuable over time is tantamount to complaining that this system was created - that the devs should have just said "screw it, lock more things behind VIP status." Is that really what you want?
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As an aside, It seems to me that trying to link claims that VIP status isn't a good value with people leaving the game really doesn't make sense. If they were enjoying the game but just didn't find VIP a good value, why didn't they just downgrade to Premium and stick around? Honestly, I have much more often seen people complain that they were unsatisfied with Tier 9 Premium, and actually wanted something for "free" that was locked behind VIP status. It seems to me that people leaving are most often doing so because either they're burned out on CoH after many years of play, they don't like the new content, they got sucked into newer games, or some combination of all three. What is or isn't part of a VIP subscription really doesn't seem particularly relevant, except that if they actually do care about something that's locked behind VIP status, they won't really bother with coming back as a Premium, whereas they might have if they could pop in for free and do everything they value being able to do.
Naturally, it would be great if the devs could come up with more completely new features, and either give them to VIPs for free or perhaps at a discount compared to Premium accounts. I don't think anyone would hate that idea in its broad form. But it makes sense that the devs would focus primarily on things that they know make their existing customers happy - new powersets, new costumes, new content ("standard", SSA-like and Incarnate), new zones and foes, QoL changes, buffs, etc. We've been getting way more of a lot of those lately, especially powersets, costumes, QoL changes and buffs.
Ultimately, if you don't value what's currently locked behind VIP status, don't pay for it. If you do actually want to play CoH, spend the money differently, presumably on points, Inventions access, whatever. Just put your money where your mouth is, and if enough of the playerbase agrees with you, the devs will notice and change tack. Other players can't stop you from posting your opinions on the forums, and no one should tell you what you should and shouldn't value. But if you present those opinions as if they're universal truths or majority viewpoints simply because you hold them, expect to be ridiculed.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Twenty pages of this thread can all be summed up in that one sentence.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Ultimately, if you don't value what's currently locked behind VIP status, don't pay for it.
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/end thread.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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B-B-But how will I show how hip and cool and trendy I am over those square VIPs!?!?!?
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Twenty pages of this thread can all be summed up in that one sentence.
/end thread. |
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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Yes, it says that VIP players aren't elitist jerks who are willing to move off of their home servers where they have a long-established community they are a part of just to stay away from the premium players. There's no reason to move to Exalted, so they don't. It does NOT, however, say a damn thing about the quality of the perks overall from being a VIP.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
The funny thing is the most populated servers are still Freedom and Virtue, not the designated VIP server. That says it all really.
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
No.
My argument is, "I used to love this game, and I subscribed for seven years because of it. I want to continue subscribing, but I feel I am no longer getting my money's worth. Please make the game better, or at least give me the same rewards as those players who have not been so loyal." This is my semi-annual rant in an attempt to change the direction the game is taking. That's all. I want to help them improve, so I'm giving feedback about how I feel I'm being treated as a subscriber. I have no indication that anyone listens, but a man's gotta try. Especially when I've sunk my heart into a game for so long -- it would be wrong to walk away without at least trying to explain why and under what conditions I would have stayed. |
Good post. I am not sure why there was a tangent talking about other games unless Golden Girl wants a vacation from the mods or something.
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This is an artefact of the revised cape and aura missions. Go see the City Rep in Atlas Park City Hall and do the new missions. When they first came out there was a "feature" that required you to do them again to change your cape or aura. Sounds like it was never fully corrected.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Maybe there's some way to unlock these for free, but the game is telling me they cost 160 points each. Most of these were auras we had before the switch to Freedom.
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The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Yes, it says that VIP players aren't elitist jerks who are willing to move off of their home servers where they have a long-established community they are a part of just to stay away from the premium players. There's no reason to move to Exalted, so they don't. It does NOT, however, say a damn thing about the quality of the perks overall from being a VIP.
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For me Exalted was a chance to get some names I wanted that were unavailable on the other servers.
What balances VIP is the stuff that isn't available on the store -- incarnates, bases, some other things I don't use and have forgotten. But if the VIP is not interested in that free stuff, they are getting screwed compared to Premium players. We've already established that earlier in the thread.
At this point of the thread we have people arguing how great minor perks are. That is fine, but don't try sell it as amazing perks, because that is not the case.
The funny thing is the most populated servers are still Freedom and Virtue, not the designated VIP server. That says it all really.