I don't feel VIP at all
By
AcceleratorRay,
Posted on: 2012-08-22 15:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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In my opinion, this can done, broadly, in one of three ways.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
What can be done to make being a VIP more valuable to more people, not just those of us who already can't fathom not subscribing?
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- Move more existing features behind VIP status. I see this as a non-starter, as it would almost certainly aggravate existing Premium players.
- Variations on giving VIPs more points. This includes making things that are purchase-only cost less for VIPs, giving VIPs more (existing types of) things for free, etc. This is risky, because it risks reducing revenue, because the increase in Premiums compelled to upgrade to VIP might not offset the loss in spend by VIPs currently paying out to buy points.
- Add new features that do not yet exist and fully gate them behind VIP status, the way Incarnate content is. It's difficult to speculate what these features might be, since I'm not particularly aware of what new features might be on the horizon.
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Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It should be noted that Paragon Studios themselves asked what they could do to make being a VIP seem more valuable at the Pummit. That says to me this is likely something they feel is an issue and that they want to improve the VIP experience.
Therefore, while I do not agree with the OP, I am guessing enough people do that Paragon is concerned. |
They don't need to be "concerned" to keep an eye out for ways to improve the value of being a VIP. The system's been in place for a while now, and with an MMO everything is in a state of perpetual flux and (hopefully) improvement.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
In my opinion, this can done, broadly, in one of three ways.
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#2 is also unlikely for the reason you note. Points are basically $$$, and the stipend amounts to a discount on your sub. It seems quite generous to me already, I'd be surprised if they fiddled around with it.
#3 will certainly happen just by evolution. It doesn't even need 'new features' other than the ongoing expansion of incarnate content. I see the Incarnate system continuing to grow until it become a whole other game beyond the VIP gate. Right now the incarnate system is at an early stage of development, rather like CoH in the early days- it doesn't constitute much except grinding to get your junk so you can grind more more and get the next level of junk, etc etc.
The DA revamp points a way forward- new or repurposed zones full of incarnate story content, filling out a 'new game' beyond the VIP firewall. When that vista becomes grand enough it will be a magnetic draw for subs.
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Yup. I think the big thing with #3 is that they are going full bore on adding new features that do not exist: Incarnate content. If that's not your cup of tea, then, well...
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
In my opinion, this can done, broadly, in one of three ways.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
In my opinion, this can done, broadly, in one of three ways.
2. Variations on giving VIPs more points. This includes making things that are purchase-only cost less for VIPs, giving VIPs more (existing types of) things for free, etc. This is risky, because it risks reducing revenue, because the increase in Premiums compelled to upgrade to VIP might not offset the loss in spend by VIPs currently paying out to buy points. 3. Add new features that do not yet exist and fully gate them behind VIP status, the way Incarnate content is. It's difficult to speculate what these features might be, since I'm not particularly aware of what new features might be on the horizon. |
#2 and #3 would be the best way to go.
Personally I'd like to see the stipend increased to 500 points. 400 irritates me, but that's a personal issue. I get that it's equal to spending $5 bucks but I simply believe a dollar should be worth 100 points.
I'd also like to see the Stipend bonus increase based on the number of years your account has been active. Start at 150 as per the reward tree but kick it up a small amount each year say 10 to 25 points. (personally I'd prefer 25)
Add a Rename Token, and a Respec token to the monthly VIP perks. If they feel Monthly is too frequent for the respec token do it quarterly, biannually, or even yearly.
New features gated behind VIP:
Multi-cape rigs (Sybil costumes, wings with buttcapes like the new Tech Knight, real tabards and loincloths!).
Kheldian Sashes for male/huge models.
New Space and Underwater zones.
Just to give a few suggestions...
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I've seen people in the past suggest that we should get a more generic token (or, alternatively, some kind of separate point pool), and it could be spent on any of those things. That way, people who don't care about server transfer tokens (like me, mostly), could cash them in for respecs instead, for example. It would not have to be that one token buys any of those things - they could make some things cost more tokens, or use a points system to break it down to greater granularity. (Basically Tokens are a points system that's got very low granularity.)
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Add a Rename Token, and a Respec token to the monthly VIP perks. If they feel Monthly is too frequent for the respec token do it quarterly, biannually, or even yearly.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
A small additional discount would be good, as well as things non-VIPs can't buy. Mostly thinking things like weapon customization and such. I have zero idea how one gets the Tech Knight stuff, for instance, but I'm under the vague impression it's gated behind "time played" as well as VIP status, which is a bit *too* gated in my opinion.
If they add something truly cool that only VIPs can earn, then that would entice more people to become VIPs... as well as making VIPs feel more "very."
The single biggest thing is something I've been asking after for years: Sidekicks. Give VIPs the ability to make their very own customizable sidekick, a combat pet who can be the Robin to our Batman, the Bucky to our Captain America, the Twillinger to our Arbiter Hawk. Give it to VIPs at, say, level 14 or something lowish like that. Give it to every AT -- who cares what it does to MMs and Controllers? I can come up with 10 concepts between pouring my cereal into the bowl and kicking my first Hellion off a bridge in the morning.
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I can't really complain about the idea of a small discount for VIPs (not that I think it's needed), but putting things in the market that only VIPs can buy is a bad move. It tells people who can't or don't want to subscribe for whatever reason that the money they can spend isn't wanted.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
A small additional discount would be good, as well as things non-VIPs can't buy.
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Now, if you wanted to switch that up to give VIP players an advance release of something--basically making it exclusive to VIPs for one or two months before opening it up to the Premium players--then I think you've got an argument.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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I don't recall where I read it but the devs tol people asking that they can'tchange the system to let us choose which token we want. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I've seen people in the past suggest that we should get a more generic token (or, alternatively, some kind of separate point pool), and it could be spent on any of those things. That way, people who don't care about server transfer tokens (like me, mostly), could cash them in for respecs instead, for example. It would not have to be that one token buys any of those things - they could make some things cost more tokens, or use a points system to break it down to greater granularity. (Basically Tokens are a points system that's got very low granularity.)
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If that's true there shouldn't be any problems with them adding new tokens we can get each month.
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I can see that, I suppose.|
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
I can't really complain about the idea of a small discount for VIPs (not that I think it's needed), but putting things in the market that only VIPs can buy is a bad move. It tells people who can't or don't want to subscribe for whatever reason that the money they can spend isn't wanted.
Now, if you wanted to switch that up to give VIP players an advance release of something--basically making it exclusive to VIPs for one or two months before opening it up to the Premium players--then I think you've got an argument. |
Although I must admit that it did sting a bit when every Vet got the pre-order Prestige sprints, thus devaluing the ones those of us had as badges of early-adoption, it makes some financial sense to let everyone have everything eventually. Doesn't do much for loyalty, though.
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They were free when you got them, now you need reward tokens. How have they been devalued, exactly?
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I can see that, I suppose.
Although I must admit that it did sting a bit when every Vet got the pre-order Prestige sprints, thus devaluing the ones those of us had as badges of early-adoption, it makes some financial sense to let everyone have everything eventually. Doesn't do much for loyalty, though. |
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They were exclusive before, now you can get them for tokens.
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Originally Posted by Mad Grim
How have they been devalued, exactly?
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No they weren't exclusive. The devs have made it crystal clear that the only items that were and continue to be exclusive are the Collector's Edition perks.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
They were exclusive before, now you can get them for tokens.
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That exclusivity is the reason we keep being told they won't sell them on the market or add them to the rewards tree.
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Everything should be added to the market eventually. It doesn't hurt those who have it in any way, shape, or form. Unless they have a sensitive ego, in which case it could be good for them. All it does is give the people who don't have it a chance to get it. It makes people happy and no one needs to get sad.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No they weren't exclusive. The devs have made it crystal clear that the only items that were and continue to be exclusive are the Collector's Edition perks.
That exclusivity is the reason we keep being told they won't sell them on the market or add them to the rewards tree. |
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I knew I wasn't an elitist! |
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Yes, it says that VIP players aren't elitist jerks who are willing to move off of their home servers where they have a long-established community they are a part of just to stay away from the premium players. There's no reason to move to Exalted, so they don't. It does NOT, however, say a damn thing about the quality of the perks overall from being a VIP.
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I don't play on Exalted at all!
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They were exclusive eight years and four months ago, and remained exclusive to anyone who had the appropriate pre-order code until November 28, 2006, when the Veteran Rewards program went live (issue 8), at which point they automatically became available to everyone who had subscribed for 12 months. So that was two and a half years of exclusivity. I don't even redeem the damned things because they clutter up my power list.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I can see that, I suppose.
Although I must admit that it did sting a bit when every Vet got the pre-order Prestige sprints, thus devaluing the ones those of us had as badges of early-adoption, it makes some financial sense to let everyone have everything eventually. Doesn't do much for loyalty, though. |
If this sort of thing still stings...well, I don't even understand how.
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But I didn't suggest you unsubscribe because you no longer enjoy playing the game. I suggested that anyone who feels Premium play offers a better value proposition should unsubscribe and play as a Premium player. You've interpreted that suggestion, at least apparently, as tantamount to suggesting you cease playing. I don't think anyone who suggested dropping down to premium is suggesting that.|
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I understand the system, I just don't agree with how it is set up. I subscribed because I liked the game and I wanted to reward the developers. If I unsubscribe because I no longer enjoy the game, why would I continue playing?
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If you don't enjoy actually playing the game, I have no recommendation for you because I would not play a game I didn't enjoy playing, and can offer no advice to someone asking if there is a reason to do so.
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Fairly early in the beta I posted something here basically saying it was a good single player game, but a poor MMO, and no one seemed to understand back then how that could be possible - nor could I really elaborate then.|
Originally Posted by Kangstor
Tor wasn't a bad single player game.
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But I think there are a lot of important design lessons to learn from that game, because they did so much right, and so little wrong but they were the wrong things to get wrong. They were foundational things that you can't get wrong in my opinion. That game does an exceptionally good job of reminding MMO developers what you can mess with, and what you cannot mess with unless you are geniuses.
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I've been playing a certain new games head start this weekend, and several times I've thought TOR would have been so much better if it was made like GW2.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Fairly early in the beta I posted something here basically saying it was a good single player game, but a poor MMO, and no one seemed to understand back then how that could be possible - nor could I really elaborate then.
But I think there are a lot of important design lessons to learn from that game, because they did so much right, and so little wrong but they were the wrong things to get wrong. They were foundational things that you can't get wrong in my opinion. That game does an exceptionally good job of reminding MMO developers what you can mess with, and what you cannot mess with unless you are geniuses. |
Another option for 'VIP-perks' are things along the lines of First Ward+Night Ward. While you can buy your way into First Ward, Night Ward is locked behind being a VIP. I've no idea how much money they've made from selling First Ward, but if it was enough to pay for the development of Night Ward, that might be a good model to use going forward (even if it doesn't fully pay off, it being new content would still be worth something on its own).
Of course, I'm a satisfied VIP. So really, it's the ones on the fence or dissatisfied that should say what sort of additional 'perks' they'd find as worthwhile additions. Any answer that involves 'moar points' as the 'perk' is crappy, because points are a means to an end, they're not a perk. You could, separately, propose that the amount of points should be tweaked in some way, but I'd say that's largely an unrelated issue to the quality of perks being insufficient for any significant segment of the playerbase.
(the Devs would also be the only ones that could actually determine if any proposed changes would actually be a good thing for the game, as they're the only ones with access to subscriber numbers)
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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It doesn't. It stung A BIT when it happened. I got over it, being a grown-up and all. (And having seen lots worse things happen in life.) I'm just saying that in the context of this particular game at that particular time, it was a teensy-weensy annoying to find an exclusive thing wasn't exclusive any more. You know, like when you get a splinter. You don't dwell on it, you just get aggravated while trying to work this small bit of pain out of your finger, and then years later someone mentions how they got a speck of dust in their eye and you say, "Oh yeah, one time I got a bit by a splinter in my finger, so I get it."|
Originally Posted by BellaStrega
They were exclusive eight years and four months ago, and remained exclusive to anyone who had the appropriate pre-order code until November 28, 2006, when the Veteran Rewards program went live (issue 8), at which point they automatically became available to everyone who had subscribed for 12 months. So that was two and a half years of exclusivity. I don't even redeem the damned things because they clutter up my power list.
If this sort of thing still stings...well, I don't even understand how. |
Does that spell it out enough?
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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I had the suspicion that TOR would play better solo when they said the fateful words: "Completely voice acted."|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Fairly early in the beta I posted something here basically saying it was a good single player game, but a poor MMO, and no one seemed to understand back then how that could be possible - nor could I really elaborate then.
But I think there are a lot of important design lessons to learn from that game, because they did so much right, and so little wrong but they were the wrong things to get wrong. They were foundational things that you can't get wrong in my opinion. That game does an exceptionally good job of reminding MMO developers what you can mess with, and what you cannot mess with unless you are geniuses. |
That's fine for a single-player game, but not one where you pay a monthly sub. I don't know where you draw the line at being wrong, but for me the story was boring and the gameplay was just dull. It looked gorgeous, but that was about the end of the good things for me.
I'm quite glad CoH hasn't had the resources to do that sort of thing, because even the cut scenes have a tendency to interrupt the flow of play.
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Yes, it does. I'm sorry for mischaracterizing your statement. I really didn't understand what the problem was.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
It doesn't. It stung A BIT when it happened. I got over it, being a grown-up and all. (And having seen lots worse things happen in life.) I'm just saying that in the context of this particular game at that particular time, it was a teensy-weensy annoying to find an exclusive thing wasn't exclusive any more. You know, like when you get a splinter. You don't dwell on it, you just get aggravated while trying to work this small bit of pain out of your finger, and then years later someone mentions how they got a speck of dust in their eye and you say, "Oh yeah, one time I got a bit by a splinter in my finger, so I get it."
Does that spell it out enough? |
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Would you mind elaborating on why voice overs are an intrinsically bad thing for an MMO? It'd certainly be nice if the mid-mission caption or NPC dialog was voiced over in this game, since it can be a bit frustrating to focus on the battle and ALSO trying to read the bubbles (I end up having to have a box open just for Captions + NPC dialog... but even that can scroll past way too fast at times!).
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I had the suspicion that TOR would play better solo when they said the fateful words: "Completely voice acted."
That's fine for a single-player game, but not one where you pay a monthly sub. I don't know where you draw the line at being wrong, but for me the story was boring and the gameplay was just dull. It looked gorgeous, but that was about the end of the good things for me. I'm quite glad CoH hasn't had the resources to do that sort of thing, because even the cut scenes have a tendency to interrupt the flow of play. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Therefore, while I do not agree with the OP, I am guessing enough people do that Paragon is concerned. So rather than laugh it off,
What can be done to make being a VIP more valuable to more people, not just those of us who already can't fathom not subscribing?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.