Why choose Super Reflexes?

These days when creating a melee toon... stalker, scrap, brute, or even tank, why would someone still choose super reflexes over the other armor sets considering the majority of them now have some type of heal, end management and/or resistance/defense mix?

I do like super reflexes and always have but I just wonder in the game's current state where it actually falls in comparison to its peers. Being soft capped to everything is great, don't get me wrong, but when soloing an AV or even x8 mobs, those hits will eventually get through and that's when the trouble begins.

Looking for some general feedback and discussion... not looking to get anyone fired up necessarily. Knowledge is power and I can certainly use some in this case. LOL

Thanks!!!

Because variety is nice?




(I will say that my SR/ tank is one of my most reliable survivors and I generally run - +1 or +2/X8 with bosses. And the coming new IO set changes are just going to extend some layering options. So there really shouldn't be any great concern over lasting through fights. No set is really 'poor', and it really is only min/max approach that looks to any options as superior.)

It really depends on where you're coming from. You can soft-cap an SR character much easier than most other sets. For instance, on a Tanker, you do not have to get a single +Def set bonus to be over the soft-cap for all positions if you take Weave. That leaves you with set bonuses to chase other things if you want. This also allows players who don't have access to IOs to hit the soft-cap, which is a good thing.


Other sets may have more tools to help balance things out, but SR does have the scaling resistances which can help out a bit, a passive +Recharge power, and is fairly slot-light. Yes, you need to take most of the powers (which is another problem, I will grant you), but doing so leaves you very well off for most of the game.

With the changes to set bonuses coming out, an SR character can build up some resistance, too, so that should help. Stacking them with Tough should make an SR character very sturdy.

Because it's good.

- capped DDR
- easy softcap to all positions, letting you build for maximum damage output
- capped DDR
- good slow resistance
- capped DDR
- concept neutral
- capped DDR
- capped DDR

Heal -> Aid Self during leveling, Rebirth at incarnate levels.
Endurance -> Conserve Power, IOs... There's just so many tools nowadays I find myself contemplating the opposite point of view, sort of. That is, when I see a powerset with an endurance modification power it almost seems like a waste, if it takes a significant amount of time to active. I.e. I used to love Power Sink and Energy Drain, but nowadays all I see is the 2 seconds animation interrupting my damage dealing.
Resistance -> I can admit this is the one hole SR has (well, along with non-positional psi, autohit damage and fear effects). Every powerset has one though, and I find this particular shortcoming plugged easily enough with judicious application of orange insps.

DDR is the most underestimated damage mitigation mechanic, bar none. The difference is night and day between being merely softcapped with 0% DDR and being softcapped with 95% DDR. I have seen so many "tough" survivability builds crumbling into nothing, dropping like a rock as soon as something with significant defense debuffs pops up.

SR doesn't compare too favorably with Shield, which doesn't seem to pay too much of a price for the added resistance, max HP, damage buff, damage debuff, AoE KD, aggro aura and decent T9 it gets... Then again, few powersets can compete with Shield. Comparing SR to anything else, it seems just fine.

SR will always have a niche among F2P and other non-IO builds. i.e. Good luck softcapping fiery aura without IOs.

And issue 24 set bonus changes make SR a little more palatable for IO builds.

I was thinking about this just last night. There are several considerations.

For starters. can't use Shield with a two-handed weapon set. Also, it has a minimal-fx option, unlike Ice or Electric, for example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chyll And the coming new IO set changes are just going to extend some layering options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn With the changes to set bonuses coming out, an SR character can build up some resistance, too, so that should help. Stacking them with Tough should make an SR character very sturdy.

The posters above might be under-selling the changes. See, resistance sets per se aren't necessarily stronger than defense sets; what's made the difference is that, through IOs, you can add meaningful defense to a resistance set, but cannot add meaningful resistance to a defense set. And resistance + defense is better mitigation than just defense. It is to be hoped that the new changes will permit SR to add at least some resistance (although, keeping a wary eye on balance, I don't want to hope for "too much" resistance.)

So for this consideration, the answer might become, "yes, Super Reflexes used to be measurably inferior, before Issue 24."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilii - easy softcap to all positions, letting you build for maximum damage output

That's an under-rated advantage of SR. I recently put together awhat I consider a very expensive, very capable Shield build, but my choices were rather constrained by the necessity of taking lots of sets strictly for their defense bonuses, and I definitely had to make compromises (particularly on recharge).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilii DDR is the most underestimated damage mitigation mechanic, bar none. The difference is night and day between being merely softcapped with 0% DDR and being softcapped with 95% DDR. I have seen so many "tough" survivability builds crumbling into nothing, dropping like a rock as soon as something with significant defense debuffs pops up.

Indeed. When they changed the way HOs work, some people interpreted it as primarily aimed at nerfing Shield's (then-existing) ability to cap DDR, which was achievable only by exploiting the properties of HOs. My point at the time was, maybe so, but since DDR was one of the very few clear advantages SR had in comparison with Shield, it seemed unfair for Shield to cap DDR through that unintended way. Shield ultimately had to settle for being demoted all the way down to second- or third-best DDR in the game. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilii SR doesn't compare too favorably with Shield, which doesn't seem to pay too much of a price for the added resistance, max HP, damage buff, damage debuff, AoE KD, aggro aura and decent T9 it gets... Then again, few powersets can compete with Shield. Comparing SR to anything else, it seems just fine.

Yeah, and to boot, SR's other great trick (inherent +recharge) got co-opted by Electric. I personally feel like a buff to Quickness -- even as big a one as increasing the recharge from 20% to, say, 50% -- still wouldn't make SR head-and-shoulders the best choice, but would certainly make it nicer for niche builds.

I have a lot of Shield builds, but I also have a lot of SR builds. I personally like them both, but I admit Shields has a lot of nice toys.

Why would someone still choose SR?

Not everyone has the same tastes and goals.
There is a lot of game pre-50, billion dollar build.
Finding ones self running around at 1/2 health and it not being a bad thing.
Recharge.

Because my DM/SR scrapper is a badass AV killer since before IO's.....Perhaps.....

Because it's good, because it's simple, because variety is nice, because it doesn't prevent me from using a two-handed attack set, because it fits my concept for the character.

Probably in reverse order, though. Maybe consider that to be something of a countdown from least to most important.

DDR

It was my first character, my first 50, my first IO'd build ... in short my main among many so I'm very comfortable with the set.

And my defense will always be what it is.

Doomguide

My Staff/SR Scrapper is iTrial soft-capped(59+%) to M/R/A, has decent regen/recovery, and has his attacks fully slotted. Plus he has tons of recharge, enough to perma-hasten. Granted, the build is expensive, but still probably less expensive than many soft-capped resistance sets.

The only, and I mean only time I need to be cautious is against enemies with huge +To Hit: Rularuu, Cims and Nems when they've been Vengeance'd, DE with Quartz eminators out. I think those are about the only mobs I have to fight with any caution, but then who doesn't have some trouble with those mobs? Arachnos, Malta, Longbow, etc, I handle at +4/x8 with relative ease.

I like /SR because it's fun to be the only one still standing after your team has wiped(stone tank and all) and it's up to you to finish off the enemy. Yeah, it's kinda like that.

There are only 2 drawbacks to SR: having to take all the powers to fill the holes and having to dip into power pools to use other sets outside of +def. This is a side effect of a one-trick-pony that does its trick phenomenally: evade stuff. Thus I can consentrate on doing other things like killing, building for rech and damage (my dm/sr has 197.5% global recharge with hasten and a perma 49% dam buff from sets - including hybrid and not counting Muscular - that's a flat damage buff I see while monitoring damage buff w/o any help from other peeps or insps: 49% AND I have perma Soul Drain.) *There are just some things you can do/build for with /SR that you cant do with other sets.*

SR is also fairly easy to get to the incarnate soft cap of 59%. It is also not a clicky set so it goes well with weapon sets like TW and Staff.
My main is a dm/sr brute i have been playing and enjoying Devil Dingo for years. It isn't flashy nor has it the shiney toys some of the other sets have but it's still very effective.
like others have said...it's just going to get even better with the i24 io changes and the capped DDR is awesome...especially at the end game.

Don't underestimate SR! Especially on Stalkers.

Ninjitsu isn't better than SR. You face enemies who deal -Defense and you'll feel the difference between a NIN and a SR.

Personally I think NIN could use a raise in DDR, but then I think SR could use a raise in ability as well.

But there are reasons to pick SR as many have stated.

Not to mention, in i24 SR users can take Aid Self and lose the interrupt if they choose.

"Lack of self heal" has never been an issue for me in the 40s or above.
Inspirations drop like candy, and your need for greens tends to far outstrip the rate at which they drop when you're hardly ever getting hit.

Add in the Med Pack temp power (60 seconds base recharge, no interrupt) for emergencies and you're done.

It allows you to touch your toes in RL.

Not to forget with a multibillion build people usually only focus to get enough defense and recharge. For SR almost both fronts are covered up (%20 recharge bonus is equal to two purple sets with 5 slotted each piece of a purple set is around 200 to 250 mil be it either crafted or recipe so for a %20 recharge bonus people are actually paying around 2 to 2.5 billion inf and that is subject to law of five) so you can use that multibillion to get more damage, regen and a little bit resist or even recovery if you have an end heavy primary or focus on recharge if you have a slow primary.

I guess I like SR becuase on my scrapper/brute or stalker I can focus on primary rather than secondary and I don't like to slot IO sets until my character reaches to 50 and when leveling there isn't a better set (for me at least) that works with generic IO's or SO's than SR.

Why choose SR?

Because DM exists