So in Issue 24 Synapse confirms we can now finally build reasonable +Res like we can defense.

Technically, defense and resistance are not sides that need to be made fair. Its the net impact on powersets that is important, and you have to think these things through carefully. For example, it was originally thought that the huge amount of defense in the invention system was good for defense sets but as I tried to argue during I9 beta, the opposite is true. Once you can add more than about 10% - 15% defense in the invention system, the advantage swings the other way: defense sets cannot benefit as much from higher than soft-capped defenses (its just debuff hedging at that point) but resistance sets can benefit a ton.

Adding resistance bonuses just to make it "fair" implies that the invention system should have tons of +maxhealth and regen bonuses and absorb just to make sure all the other anthropomorphic game mechanics don't get sad. The real question is which powersets are disadvantaged by the lack of resistance bonuses, compared to who might get disadvantaged by having an overabundance of resistance bonuses. And I'm afraid we won't even know for certain before the entire thing leaves beta.

I don't have a specific objection to increased resistance bonuses, I just think the odds of nasty and irreversible unintended side effects from that increase are extremely high.

I agree, but probably not for the same reasons.



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Buff/debuff saturation was one of the reasons I thought having large leagues (or teams larger than 8) wasn't such a good idea - and that's before Destiny.
[edit: But that's the subject for a different thread..]

Even if everyone "only" gets 5-10% res out of the change just by having random sets slotted, that's 5-10% higher on the non-linear mitigation scale. The next time characters get access to easy 5% res will be made more potent because of this.

I second the second half - which is what makes me so leery about it.

Did you even read what you just typed?

Never gonna happen...

Completely avoiding damage is ALWAYS going to best actually taking damage, no matter how much you fractionalize it.

I understand your basic desire. Allow for tanks that currently CAN'T add on a lot of resistance to be able to do so. So defense-centric tanks can achieve a parity in overall durability to resistance-based tanks that get loaded up with defense.

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I disagree and reason why this game has one variable most others don't, hitpoint regeneration. The combination of Hitpoint regeneration + Resistance can create an immortality line that can be mathematically shown to where if DPS less then or equal to the combination of Regen + Resistance, you will be unkillable.

In fact, I did, so I have no idea what point you're trying to make with this statement.

But defense lets you dodge Mezzes. And debuffs.

And resistance continues to work even when the RNG hates you.

I see what you are saying..but..would you please, please please STOP using all these max perfomance examples when making a point as to if something will or wont be good? You were doing the same again and again in the SS thread. Talking about Rage doing nothing as the cap, best attack chain, etc etc.
Again..I know your trying to help and your reasoning is always sound, but..come on. How many sets have we got in game that HAVE resist and regen? Let's see.
Regen? Well before the buff, it has tiiiny resist. Mog hardly counts. It is more the defence portion of it making you a mini tank.
Willpower. Average resists, a bit better of a tank. ANd you can still DIE pretty easy on a wp with no def, which is basically why wp is so good..layers.

So we dont actually..have this amazing resist + regen combo to make you a god. Sure you can get it with perhaps a resist toon and getting rebirth,. or AB or something, but a set that does it alone? Nope.
Whereas with good def (leaving aside the RNG), if your not getting hit..you dont NEED any regen at all.

Isn't the point that we *might* be able to get this mythical combination with these IO changes?

All I know is that my soft caped Crab Spider with 40% resists to all but psi and 1852 health is oh so very happy right now.

Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze

Yeah I know it might happen. Might. But will it? As I mentioned before..20% def (roughlt?) before it helps a lot..so 40% res? Maybe 15 of that could be from tough, s/l, another..30% to s/l/x from a epic toggle. that is still NOT as good as say..40% ranged def to a squishy or 40% s/l def to a fire armour.

It is great we are getting some resist in sets, dont get we wrong. I am just questioning how much we would actually need to be comparable to the amount of def we can get.

I'd love to be totally surprise and blown away by the values we get..but..

As in, for builds to abandon building for defense, and build for resistance instead? No amount of resistance will do that.

But for it to significantly change the metagame of building, and to significantly affect how characters perform? Being able to get even 10-15% resist just to S/L could do that. There's no rule that you can't have defense bonuses AND resist bonuses, and sometimes they'll even be in the same IO set.

Very true. Hopefully the values of the combo sets are good.

Those don't matter if they can't out DPS your immortality line. You could be a statue forever but you won't die.

But they wouldn't die either, because you'd be a statue forever.

You need to take a step back and look at things and the actual numbers. You can get a decent amount of Regeneration on characters that aren't /Regen or Willpower. Here's a few ways:

1) Rebirth

2) Brute ATO Proc (AT limited) which gives 100% Regen

3) Unique IO's (Numina, Regenerative Tissue)

4) Blaster Secondaries (Issue 24)

5) Triage Beacons, Spirit Trees

6) Psychic Drain (And yes this can be perma)

7) Set bonuses

8) Slotting Health

9) Physical Perfection

Stopping the list here. Not one of these sources is going to make a difference by itself but adding up you can get a LOT of Regeneration on sets that have none. My Fiery Aura Brute with the new ATO would be around nearly 400% and higher at times depending what duration Rebirth is at.

If someone is also going to say 400% isn't very much let me remind you the Blaster changes are only approximately 150% and as Arcanaville proved, it will be a significant difference in their sustainability.

Don't they though? Toggle suppression anyone?

Edit: Beaten by Hopeling... who also one upped me by mentioning Debuffs.