So in Issue 24 Synapse confirms we can now finally build reasonable +Res like we can defense.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-08-07 16:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That's a one-dimensional way of looking at things, though. If a hypothetical SR tanker or scrapper managed to get huge resistances to everything (especially psi) it would be Fiery Embrace vs 95% DDR. That's not an automatic win for Fiery Aura, and that's also another thing you can't really buy from the invention system. You can rent it from the incarnate system, but not all of it and only part of the time. And while the Fiery Aura tanker was doing that, the SR tanker would be spamming Rebirth and neutralizing much of the advantage of Healing Flames.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Bingo.
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Actually, high on my TODO list is to figure out what the scaling resistance invention does, so I can see how it would stack on SR. That should be interesting.
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The scaling invention scales to 10% resist all... at what rate I am not sure.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's a one-dimensional way of looking at things, though. If a hypothetical SR tanker or scrapper managed to get huge resistances to everything (especially psi) it would be Fiery Embrace vs 95% DDR. That's not an automatic win for Fiery Aura, and that's also another thing you can't really buy from the invention system. You can rent it from the incarnate system, but not all of it and only part of the time. And while the Fiery Aura tanker was doing that, the SR tanker would be spamming Rebirth and neutralizing much of the advantage of Healing Flames.
Actually, high on my TODO list is to figure out what the scaling resistance invention does, so I can see how it would stack on SR. That should be interesting. |
Well this thread certainly hasn't stood still.
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Hey, hey!|
Originally Posted by Starsman
First off: Hey Sarrate! Where you been hiding?! Been missing our Taunt Mechanics Specialist!
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A combination of being an MMO nomad and spending more time in meatspace than before. I haven't logged into CoX in a long time, but I still can't help but sneak a peak at the forums, especially to keep up with the more major new features and sets.
You'd probably hear slightly more from me, but most of the threads I feel like I could contribute to are behind the VIP barrier.
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Originally Posted by Kangstor
Ok just to put my 2 cent in. I copied my live toon atbeta to see how much resist he will get. He didn't had too much sets that will be changed just 3 red fortune and some other sets that their res will be increased. So far my toon had around %20 S/L res, %14-15 F/C res and %3 in others. After I long in to beta and get on my toon. The res are like this %34 s/l, %23-24 f/c, %5 others.
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And only thing that effects others is shield walls proc. For f/c there are hecatomb, red fortunes, armageddon beside shields walls proc. For s/l I have a couple of sources but main is scrapper ATO.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
So, roughly +14% s/l, 9% f/c, and +2% to the others without even changing any sets? Well, they certainly didn't pull their punches...
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What with Incarnate powers requiring you to keep paying a monthly sub fee to keep access to them (unlike IOs, which are either completely free or only $2.50/month) it's not surprising they're OP and homogenizing all the ATs into similar powerhouse tankmage gods that eat +4x8 and poop nova-tier nukes every minute and a half. I think that was sort of the point of the Incarnate System--a return to feeling as super as superman that the year-1 pre-ED game used to have.
It would be funny if Tankers got their damage resist pushed back up to a possible 95% or something with IO sets now actually providing +RES instead of only +DEF, to open the possibility of them getting just a bit more sturdy than Brutes. I remember when they could reach 99% resists or something and they didn't see any red numbers higher than -1 over their heads, lol.
Although, if the Battalion are an interdimensional Death Force of the strongest beings in the multiverse who eat the living Wells of planets for breakfast, Galactus style, and shove Nictus cysts into their space ships like so many lumps of coal I wouldn't be surprised if they have a nasty, NASTY surprise...like wielding an untyped damage type that slices through everyone equally.
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Currently, Crushing Impact, with 2 slots used up, gives 3% resistance.|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
So, roughly +14% s/l, 9% f/c, and +2% to the others without even changing any sets? Well, they certainly didn't pull their punches...
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5 of those pups will give you +15% SL Resistance and everyone has enough melee attacks to do this, even if they have to resort to brawl and pool powers. Add a second slot to Brawl just to get 3% resistance? YES Please!
Multi Strike also gives 2.5 SL Resistance with just a 2 slot investment. You just need to find two melee AoEs to slot them in. That can be any PBAoE attack, Damage Aura, melee cone or even the new Cone attack in the Fighting Pool.
It will be easy to get +20% SL resistance just with what I listed above (and there are more sources, especially if you have more than two melee AoE.)
A fire tanker, the weakest of the resit based Tankers, already reaches 70.2% SL resistance with Tough. This will make it trivial for Fire to cap SL Resist, and since it's just a 2 slot investment per power, they dont have to sacrifice their Kinetic Combat SL Defense slotting.
Technically everyone but SR, Ice and Shields seem to be able to softcap SL resistances easily now [in beta].
5 bucks say this wont make it live. At minimum I expect/sugest a tier change to those set bonuses.
I think my Sonic res defender just got a big nerf. My value to teams was that I filled a niche for raising resistance, since everyone was focused on defense. As soon as everyone has more resistance, that niche goes away.
Defense is still going to be better than resistiance, so defensive supports will be "stronger" than resistance supports, but now with people having higher resistances without the defender, there won't be the same ammount of help to offer.
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I love people arguing about SO versus I/O character builds. Talk about forum navel gazing lol. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Uh yeah. NO!
Simply because an IO'ed-to-a-fare-thee-well toon can nuke down +4x8 doesn't mean every build should, or that baseline SOs should. Baseline SOs should allow you to complete content on +0x1 with bosses on, and have the bosses be somewhat challenging. Nobody ever promised you that your SO'ed toon was going to be able to solo multiple AVs simultaneously. Is the power gap between crazily IO'ed up toons and SO'd toons with identical slot-outs relatively huge? YES! AS IT SHOULD BE. I agree with the sentiment that the system is homogenizing very high-power toons. I disagree that someone sporting a "luxury" build that's been min-maxed within an inch of its life in any way detracts from an SO build's ability to run normal content. |
Last night my friends were running an ITF, I quickly looked around for an eligible character. I had 50s (no fun, no exp!) a few shattered high levels (stripped for parts) a bunch of lowbie projects, and a lone 37 Dark/Invul Scrapper pure SO build. So I grabbed it and loaded into Cimerorararara. We had 4 Incarnates and a kin, but were light on tanky types. (I think we had a Brute and me) We did the 1st two missions at +1, then backed it down to +0 for speed. I will not lie, I died a few times. Some were comical. I died, got up, was killed by the crystal explosion, got up, killed by the roman spawn. I died from not getting Dull pain to activate fast enough a couple times. But, I actually tanked quite a few mobs as well. Swallow a small purp and/or sm orange and dived in hoping for the best quite a few times, and did well more often than not by far.
SO Scrapper build, fun. What more can I say?
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Incarnates have rendered any bubbler obsolete. -Res on the other hand...
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Originally Posted by Shockwave007
I think my Sonic res defender just got a big nerf. My value to teams was that I filled a niche for raising resistance, since everyone was focused on defense. As soon as everyone has more resistance, that niche goes away.
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Not really. You still can grant the team 54.6% resistance to all damage types but Psi.|
Originally Posted by Shockwave007
I think my Sonic res defender just got a big nerf. My value to teams was that I filled a niche for raising resistance, since everyone was focused on defense. As soon as everyone has more resistance, that niche goes away.
Defense is still going to be better than resistiance, so defensive supports will be "stronger" than resistance supports, but now with people having higher resistances without the defender, there won't be the same ammount of help to offer. |
With this, people are likely to either specialize in SL or work out a boost in their average non-sl resists. You will either be patching big holes, or stacking on top of slightly stronger resist bases. Technically, that amplifies the strength of a Sonic defender.
Thats not to mention you still have a lot of tricks besides +Res, mainly -Res.
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Softcap S/L Resistances? Don't you mean cap?
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Originally Posted by Starsman
Currently, Crushing Impact, with 2 slots used up, gives 3% resistance.
5 of those pups will give you +15% SL Resistance and everyone has enough melee attacks to do this, even if they have to resort to brawl and pool powers. Add a second slot to Brawl just to get 3% resistance? YES Please! Multi Strike also gives 2.5 SL Resistance with just a 2 slot investment. You just need to find two melee AoEs to slot them in. That can be any PBAoE attack, Damage Aura, melee cone or even the new Cone attack in the Fighting Pool. It will be easy to get +20% SL resistance just with what I listed above (and there are more sources, especially if you have more than two melee AoE.) A fire tanker, the weakest of the resit based Tankers, already reaches 70.2% SL resistance with Tough. This will make it trivial for Fire to cap SL Resist, and since it's just a 2 slot investment per power, they dont have to sacrifice their Kinetic Combat SL Defense slotting. Technically everyone but SR, Ice and Shields seem to be able to softcap SL resistances easily now [in beta]. 5 bucks say this wont make it live. At minimum I expect/sugest a tier change to those set bonuses. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Yea. I am so used to saying softcap due to how def works that I am actually having a hard time accepting plainly hard-capping SL resist is going to be a common thing to say...
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Softcap S/L Resistances? Don't you mean cap?
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Technically speaking I would call it a "mushy" cap. Since you can go over the cap, it only counts against incoming -res, which then lowers your resist, subtracting the 'above the cap" stuff 1st. At least i think that's how it works. Unless I'm thinking of that other thing, then, nvm. yes, mushy.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
Yea. I am so used to saying softcap due to how def works that I am actually having a hard time accepting plainly hard-capping SL resist is going to be a common thing to say...
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the devs worked around this with the +4/x8 difficulty, but even that is too easy for some and impossible for others.
Simply because an IO'ed-to-a-fare-thee-well toon can nuke down +4x8 doesn't mean every build should, or that baseline SOs should.
Baseline SOs should allow you to complete content on +0x1 with bosses on, and have the bosses be somewhat challenging.
Nobody ever promised you that your SO'ed toon was going to be able to solo multiple AVs simultaneously.
Is the power gap between crazily IO'ed up toons and SO'd toons with identical slot-outs relatively huge?
YES!
AS IT SHOULD BE.
I disagree that someone sporting a "luxury" build that's been min-maxed within an inch of its life in any way detracts from an SO build's ability to run normal content.
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