So in Issue 24 Synapse confirms we can now finally build reasonable +Res like we can defense.
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-08-07 16:46 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Interesting... Based on previous Bio testing, plus subsequent conversations with you, and futher testing... I would had given Absorption a 120% quantitative equivalence at best. But a 213%? That sounds... a bit extreme.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's basically it. But its the specifics that are tricky. I think high resistance is going to unlock a huge amount of survivability for the absorb shields. They are stronger than the regen sustains. For example, Frigid Protection shows 60.24 Absorb per tick. Real Numbers isn't good with showing the activation period but I believe Arbiter Hawk stated it was going to be 3 seconds per Absorb tick. So that's 5% every 3 seconds, fully slottable to 10% every 3 seconds. That's 3.33%/sec of damage mitigation. *IF* you could use it all, that would be equivalent to 800% regeneration. Compare to, say, Force of Thunder which has a +250% regen buff half-enhanceable. So fully slotted that would be about +375% regen, or 1.56%/sec.
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(As far as blasters go, in my eyes, either the Absorption is too high or the Regen too low.)
An interesting thing I have noticed with closer analysis during my testing recently, even with the huge regen Willpower can get, the ticks between regen bursts can be slower than ideal. In my recent Invuln Vs Regen video it can be seen how those ticks sometimes just dont come at the right time, making regen actually weaker than a numerical average would dictate it to be. Not sure how this will play out in this testing, but will see.
I assume the issue with absorb is that it can go up to 100
defense soft caps so they have a 5% chance to hit you
resistance caps at 90% for tankers and brutes
but if you have 90% resistance and absorb takes up the remaining 10% you take no damage.
And resistance and absorb are constant. Characters with absorb will be able to stand in certain groups of enemies and take 0 effective damage.
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Its a bit like regen in that regard: high enough regen can erase *all* damage. Regen's weakness is that you have to take the damage first.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I assume the issue with absorb is that it can go up to 100
defense soft caps so they have a 5% chance to hit you resistance caps at 90% for tankers and brutes but if you have 90% resistance and absorb takes up the remaining 10% you take no damage. And resistance and absorb are constant. Characters with absorb will be able to stand in certain groups of enemies and take 0 effective damage. |
A weakness Absorb does not have.
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Wowzers. I look forward to making Vox even more indestructible.
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Absorb has one other strength, it can't be debuffed. There is -Def, -Res, -Regen, etc. There is no -Absorb.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its a bit like regen in that regard: high enough regen can erase *all* damage. Regen's weakness is that you have to take the damage first.
A weakness Absorb does not have. |
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It might be affected by +heal resistance.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
Absorb has one other strength, it can't be debuffed. There is -Def, -Res, -Regen, etc. There is no -Absorb.
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I don't believe it is as that would allow it to be effected by -Heal Resistance. Regardless, even if it can be, there is next to nothing in terms of heal resistance debuffs.
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Originally Posted by MajorDecoy
It might be affected by +heal resistance.
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Inv/SS tankers with even BEEFIER resist numbers AND defense cap?|
Originally Posted by Vox Populi
Wowzers. I look forward to making Vox even more indestructible.
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YES! PLEASE!
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This reminds me of when the forum was flipping out and claiming the sky was falling when the devs reworked attack animations on katana...
This is not going to break the game, it's simply going to create a new choice for people in terms of how they want to build their characters. Even if it was easy to softcap resists with these new bonuses, soft capped resist is inferior in most cases to soft capped defense. More importantly, just as with what happened with defense, if the devs see the resists becomimg too powerful, they'll simply work more resist busting powers into the game to counter that.
Even with all the powerful buffs incarnates have brought us, there are still plenty of things to challenge even the most well build characters in this game. If I was a developer worried about retaining players, I'd be more concerned about pumping out new content and more things for players to do, than minor balance concerns like when we spent a month flipping out about increased attack animations with katana.
Being worried about 'power creep' is silly when you realize it is easily countered by increasing the power of player adversaries, which is essentially how this game has worked since day one, and is in fact how the leveling process works. Level 20 players aren't going to have all their resists softcapped, this is mostly going to occur with end game characters, who will be facing increasingly challenging end game content. Will level 50+ fully io'd out characters have an easier time doing an itf than a regular 50 on regular enhancements? Yeah, but that's pretty much the point, and how most players would want it.
This is a superhero game, people want to feel like superheroes. People who want that feeling can get that by building up their toon. If you want to play a sidekick, then just use regular enhancements, or none at all, crank up the diff to plus 4 x8, and you can get that weaker than a wet paper towel feel you seem to be craving.
If the game is too easy for you using IO's, then don't use IO's. If doing easy level 50 tfs are too easy, do the harder new content. Having said that, I'd like to see the devs remove the team requirements for all tf's so people who want more of a challenge can find it. Let people bump the difficulty up to plus 5, 6, 7 etc. I don't buy the cries of 'I can't find a challenge in this game', but doing that would make them unquestionably and ridiculously false.
Most players won't quit this game over perceived imbalances or because they feel 'too powerful' or because it's 'too easy', they'll quit when they run out of new things to do. More new stuff please.
Cybernaut you don't understand - the issue is never power creep - it is uneven power creep
A character with just SO's needs to be able to solo the content that players with purple IO's also solos.
double everyone's damage and it doesn't matter - just give the enemies twice as many hit points.
but double some people's damage and either everything is too easy, or you double the hit points and everything is too hard for the people who didn't get their damage doubled
the devs worked around this with the +4/x8 difficulty, but even that is too easy for some and impossible for others.
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It reminds me of what I said in I9 beta that there was too much defense in the invention system and it would trivialize defense sets and cause a runaway defense stacking arms race and then the devs would eventually be forced to make critters with defense counters just to counterbalance that and then moderate defense sets would get caught in the crossfire and disemboweled.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
This reminds me of when the forum was flipping out and claiming the sky was falling when the devs reworked attack animations on katana...
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If I had said back then "and then Cryptic would sell out to NCSoft and spin off a dev group called Paragon Studios that would hire a developer that would pick the red name Synapse that would eventually become the powers team lead and decide to flirt with the same problem with resistance buffs" I would have only been slightly more accurate.
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Just wait till you see how the Battallion will shred us Arcana.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It reminds me of what I said in I9 beta that there was too much defense in the invention system and it would trivialize defense sets and cause a runaway defense stacking arms race and then the devs would eventually be forced to make critters with defense counters just to counterbalance that and then moderate defense sets would get caught in the crossfire and disemboweled.
If I had said back then "and then Cryptic would sell out to NCSoft and spin off a dev group called Paragon Studios that would hire a developer that would pick the red name Synapse that would eventually become the powers team lead and decide to flirt with the same problem with resistance buffs" I would have only been slightly more accurate. |
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My poor Invuln |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It reminds me of what I said in I9 beta that there was too much defense in the invention system and it would trivialize defense sets and cause a runaway defense stacking arms race and then the devs would eventually be forced to make critters with defense counters just to counterbalance that and then moderate defense sets would get caught in the crossfire and disemboweled.
If I had said back then "and then Cryptic would sell out to NCSoft and spin off a dev group called Paragon Studios that would hire a developer that would pick the red name Synapse that would eventually become the powers team lead and decide to flirt with the same problem with resistance buffs" I would have only been slightly more accurate. |
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Its fine if the Battalion is a stonger foe than what we have now. They should be, to be an appropriate challenge for incarnates that lasts more than one issue. The problem is more the lower non-incarnate game where the gap between invention and non-invention builds is getting huge, and a problem with powerset saturation where regardless of how powerful the enemies are, specific advantages different sets are supposed to have over other sets are being saturated away by the huge power in the invention system and incarnate power trees.|
Originally Posted by Ultimus
Just wait till you see how the Battallion will shred us Arcana.
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There's still a difference between a Regen, an Invuln, and an SR, no matter how much power you infuse them with in inventions and incarnate powers. But that difference is getting smaller all the time, and that's not a good thing at all. When power starts to escalate, homogenization is very easy to induce and extremely difficult to reverse.
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I think Fiery Aura will be the beneficiary of this buff. It was something I anticipated years ago.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It reminds me of what I said in I9 beta that there was too much defense in the invention system and it would trivialize defense sets and cause a runaway defense stacking arms race and then the devs would eventually be forced to make critters with defense counters just to counterbalance that and then moderate defense sets would get caught in the crossfire and disemboweled.
If I had said back then "and then Cryptic would sell out to NCSoft and spin off a dev group called Paragon Studios that would hire a developer that would pick the red name Synapse that would eventually become the powers team lead and decide to flirt with the same problem with resistance buffs" I would have only been slightly more accurate. |
What if set bonuses had archetype modifiers?
Tankers would get the best regeneration, +max Hp, +defense, and +resist modifiers.
Brutes would get screwed.
Scrappers and Blasters would get the best +damage and +accuracy modifiers.
Defenders, masterminds, and corruptors would get the best +heal, +recharge, and +status resistance modifiers
Controllers and Dominators would get the best +control modifiers.
etc.
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Wait what?|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Cybernaut you don't understand - the issue is never power creep - it is uneven power creep
A character with just SO's needs to be able to solo the content that players with purple IO's also solos. double everyone's damage and it doesn't matter - just give the enemies twice as many hit points. but double some people's damage and either everything is too easy, or you double the hit points and everything is too hard for the people who didn't get their damage doubled the devs worked around this with the +4/x8 difficulty, but even that is too easy for some and impossible for others. |
No.
Just no.
Just because a IOed character can solo something, doesn't mean a SOed character should be able to solo it.
That's the point of IOs! To make you tougher, stronger, able to do things above and beyond just regular SOs.
Now...can a team of SOs accomplish what a team of IOed characters can accomplish? So far, I've seen nothing that says they can't.
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I think Electric Armor will benefit more, but I need to look at the numbers more carefully.
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
I think Fiery Aura will be the beneficiary of this buff. It was something I anticipated years ago.
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You underestimate the power of healing flames and the fact that Fire has Fiery Embrace which can never be replicated in power creep or IO's.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I think Electric Armor will benefit more, but I need to look at the numbers more carefully.
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How does possession of Fiery Embrace assist a powerset in benefiting from resistance bonus buffs?
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
You underestimate the power of healing flames and the fact that Fire has Fiery Embrace which can never be replicated in power creep or IO's.
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I guess his point is that Fiery Embrace (and other damage tools) make sure that once everyone is soft capped to everything, only Fire Armor ends up being on top.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
How does possession of Fiery Embrace assist a powerset in benefiting from resistance bonus buffs?
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Bingo.
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Originally Posted by Starsman
I guess his point is that Fiery Embrace (and other damage tools) make sure that once everyone is soft capped to everything, only Fire Armor ends up being on top.
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Ok just to put my 2 cent in. I copied my live toon atbeta to see how much resist he will get. He didn't had too much sets that will be changed just 3 red fortune and some other sets that their res will be increased. So far my toon had around %20 S/L res, %14-15 F/C res and %3 in others. After I long in to beta and get on my toon. The res are like this %34 s/l, %23-24 f/c, %5 others.
Considering mine is a super reflexes character and will get scaling resist anyway I say these numbers are sweet I can even feel the effect when I tried to beat a pylon today.
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You mean the tanker IO didn't already do that?
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
Bingo.
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If these changes stick, I might just drop Tough on Major Decoy.