So I want to return but...
By
A Musing Mage,
Posted on: 2012-07-10 14:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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It is stupidly cost prohibitive to be a Premium Player and an altoholic. I have almost a hundred characters. I would have to purchase a ton of slots to play them all. As a VIP, I can switch characters to my heart's content, and I even have empty slots on some servers that I can create more characters if I feel like it.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
It is more cost effective to be a Premium player than a VIP for character slots, AT unlocks, Time/Dark and IO's based on the Paragon Points system. You can have all that under $15.00 dollars sub over three months compared to 3 months of sub free of $15.00.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I stand corrected. Based on statements I'd heard from others, there was no such warning.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
YOU ARE WARNED before unlocking what licenses you need. Don't spread misinformation, please.
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Thanks for the heads-up. I'm planning to make the retina MBP my next computer purchase, and it's good to know in advance what to expect.|
Originally Posted by Ogi
On my shiny new retina mbp CoH (no matter the graphics settings) spins the fans up almost instantly. That third devil game (in 2880x1800) and the raiders vs. dragons game never* wind up the fans.
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| The cider wrapper must be thrashing my CPU something fierce. Not that I'll do it but I've thought about going back to playing CoH on my 2006 mbp so I don't burn the fans out before their time. |
--
Pauper
I read the whole thread.
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Because that's what they say.|
Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
I doubt it'll help, but I think I'll go edit that in to my original post in big, bold letters. Why do people assume that someone wants everything handed to them for free when they have any sort of issue related to the current payment model?
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Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix
Let me ask you, as a (I assume) long time subscriber, how does being a bit more inviting to Premium players, former subscribers who may or may not have invested just as much or more time and money into the game as you have, harm you in any way shape or form?
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Originally Posted by SteelRat
So I really have no sympathy at all with people that say "when I subscribed I had all this stuff, and now I have to resubscribe to get it back". That kind of attitude really does beggar belief, quite frankly.
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--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
I can feel for the OP and for a different reason: I'm a VIP player.. yes I don't get full access to the game. I have to pay stupid 'points' to unlock powersets that any other game would give me since I was VIP. I've already cancelled my sub. I already give this company the standard fee of $15 dollars which is no more than any other subscirption based game..
..yet they are still trying to sucker me into buying 'points' to unlock stuff that I should have immediate access to the moment it goes live. WoW doesn't even do this! And those guys are evil! EEEEVVVVAAAALLL. I dunno. I understand this game is technically 'dead' since it no longer rakes in enough cash from subscriptions and no, don't argue the technicalities and meanings of the word 'dead'. Because this game is certainly not vibrate anymore if that makes you feel better. The moment a game goes F2P or in this case P2Win, the game might as well be labelled dead. I hope City of Heroes 2 isn't going this route whenever they announce it's in the works.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
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[citation needed]
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
The moment a game goes F2P or in this case P2Win, the game might as well be labelled dead.
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My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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I understand you're technically 'out of touch' or 'Rip Van Winkle' since you can't seem to comprehend its now 2012 and not 2004 and no, don't argue the technicalities either.
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Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
I understand this game is technically 'dead' since it no longer rakes in enough cash from subscriptions and no, don't argue the technicalities and meanings of the word 'dead'.
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Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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NT, you sound as if you live near someone that you've maybe had this discussion with.|
Originally Posted by NuclearToast
Because I have and do pay. You quit. You want it back? Pay, like I do. Otherwise, live with what you're given for free. Blunt, but thems the apples. --NT |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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...I don't think it's that kind of game. | this game is certainly not vibrate anymore if that makes you feel better |
"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."
Since this post has been getting read. I want to try to get my thoughts out about the current game state, and why I feel the invention system should be viable to all players in some form or another.
First off, I need to publicly apologize to the support team. A few posts I made awhile back via support system contained ... well some not so nice things. I deeply express my sincere apologies.
Okay, now that I got that out of the way!
We all know the game is balanced around SO's. It's completely "playable" and "enjoyable" without them. We all, well some of us remember the golden ages .. when that's all there was. I want to talk about the implementation of this system in the beginning. Why was it created? What goals were thought of when it was born? If the game was just fine, so "enjoyable" and "playable" what was the purpose of it? Why not just create new missions, trials and other things. If this system was so completely optional then why create it at all. I'm having trouble understanding this. I know this game isn't about min/max-ing' or is it? We all strive to be the best we can be, and unlock are full potential (the only exception is those role play players out there). Even with SO builds you build your character to be the best or what works best. Its because its fun to be victorious, if you didn't build a character that way you would not be having fun. Sure it can be fun eating dirt with your buddies. However, sooner or later you will be wanting to get past that impossible TF or mission.
I believe since it's implementation the invention system has become more then just an optional part of the game. Sure you may not need it, but it will be that much harder to compete with your group. Is it fun to get the arrests/kills? Or just watching your team do it for you? If you play support, it may not effect you as much. I know I know we all prosper from completions as a group. But is it fun to feel as if your not contributing? It's like teaming with a fully incarnate character. You both run into the mob to start doing what makes this game so fun and BAM! Everything was wasted before you got your two skills off. (I'm only using incarnate as an extreme comparison, its not that bad but you do notice it.) So okay fine! Decide to not team with people who have set bonus's. We just split our options of teaming nearly in half, more or less. Not too mention you have to do all the forming for every team you decide to play in, and actually check their info to see if they have IO's.
Another point I want to make is the ... what I like to call the "Gambling Addiction". Sooner or later you will have an archetype that you like to play more then others. This will become your "main" character. (I will just come out and say it. I like to farm!) This character will supply your influence/infamy for other characters, making the burden of new character creation a little easier. The reason why I like to play the "farm" so much. Is that I feel its like playing a slot machine, (Surely slots are not random, but the reward drops are) every mob I jumped into was like a pull of that handle. I couldn't but think to my self whats gonna drop? After awhile it gets very very addicting, which maybe it's why I feel so deeply on this issue. It wasn't that I had to farm or even cared how much "inf" I made. To me it was like a drug. Yo just get hooked, as I am writing this I am hearing the Dinging of reward drops in my head. After the months and months ... and months of playing the game I just now got into alt creation.
Anyways, I got out what was brewing inside this crazy brain of mine. I just wish some day they will add the invention license back into the LIVE server Merit NPC's so that everyone can experience the fun I had while playing the game. In all honestly It's what kept me coming back ... Even after I swore up and down I would not play again after they removed the item from the vendors. I will say I will VIP again sooner or later when I can. But it would be nice to feel the "super" in super hero again without just feeling average. Maybe its just I know what I am missing I don't know.
Everyone have a great day and GLHF out there!
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The fact that City of Heroes a) still has significant number of players and b) still generates profits for the publisher and c) is still in strong active development are "technicalities?"|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
I can feel for the OP and for a different reason: I'm a VIP player.. yes I don't get full access to the game. I have to pay stupid 'points' to unlock powersets that any other game would give me since I was VIP. I've already cancelled my sub. I already give this company the standard fee of $15 dollars which is no more than any other subscirption based game..
..yet they are still trying to sucker me into buying 'points' to unlock stuff that I should have immediate access to the moment it goes live. WoW doesn't even do this! And those guys are evil! EEEEVVVVAAAALLL. I dunno. I understand this game is technically 'dead' since it no longer rakes in enough cash from subscriptions and no, don't argue the technicalities and meanings of the word 'dead'. Because this game is certainly not vibrate anymore if that makes you feel better. The moment a game goes F2P or in this case P2Win, the game might as well be labelled dead. I hope City of Heroes 2 isn't going this route whenever they announce it's in the works. |
Technically, except for the breathing and pulse thing, you're dead.
WoW is a subscription game past level 20. You get access to essentially of it when you subscribe. City of Heroes is a Hybrid game. You get access to most of it when you subscribe, but there are additional extras that you can optionally pay for. If you cannot tolerate a hybrid model game, then you should in fact find another game more in line with your preferences. But don't blame NCSoft for your need to have everything for a single price. Most people don't have that particular issue.
And unless they started working on it yesterday, there is no City of Heroes 2.
On the other hand, it is a shame the game isn't vibrate anymore.
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While I am not one to tell others how to play, if you CoX the right way...|
Originally Posted by Sparkly Soldier
...I don't think it's that kind of game.
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Not to put too fine a point of it but here were the issues prior to Freedom:|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
I can feel for the OP and for a different reason: I'm a VIP player.. yes I don't get full access to the game. I have to pay stupid 'points' to unlock powersets that any other game would give me since I was VIP. I've already cancelled my sub. I already give this company the standard fee of $15 dollars which is no more than any other subscirption based game..
..yet they are still trying to sucker me into buying 'points' to unlock stuff that I should have immediate access to the moment it goes live. WoW doesn't even do this! And those guys are evil! EEEEVVVVAAAALLL. I dunno. I understand this game is technically 'dead' since it no longer rakes in enough cash from subscriptions and no, don't argue the technicalities and meanings of the word 'dead'. Because this game is certainly not vibrate anymore if that makes you feel better. The moment a game goes F2P or in this case P2Win, the game might as well be labelled dead. I hope City of Heroes 2 isn't going this route whenever they announce it's in the works. |
Issue 19 Strike Pack (Feb 1 2011):
Alpha Slot Level Shift
Weekly Strike Target
Apex TF
Tin Mage TF
Zone Events for Praetoria
Inherent Fitness
QOL stuff
Issues 20 and 20.5 Incarnates/Incarnates Ascend April 5 and June 28 2011:
New incarnate slots, trials, rewards and a host of QOL stuff.
New level 20 SF/TF
New Winter Event
Since Convergence and Freedom, we have received:
A new powerset monthly or so;
Tons of new costumes, free or no;
A new Incarnate Trial virtually every issue;
A new ZONE in Dark Astoria, with accompanying arcs;
A level 15 team-up event and much more I am likely forgetting.
So...if the game is dead, why not just leave the servers inert and close the door to new players? I wish the game were this mortally wounded years ago, I would not have subbed to NC's competing fantasy offering.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
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*IF* the was enjoyable and playable? It was and is.|
Originally Posted by TClauss
We all know the game is balanced around SO's. It's completely "playable" and "enjoyable" without them. We all, well some of us remember the golden ages .. when that's all there was. I want to talk about the implementation of this system in the beginning. Why was it created? What goals were thought of when it was born? If the game was just fine, so "enjoyable" and "playable" what was the purpose of it?
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Why was the invention system added? It's a time sink. The people that are interested in it can spend vast amounts of time messing with it (and staying subscribed).
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| I believe since it's implementation the invention system has become more then just an optional part of the game. |
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| Sure you may not need it, |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
No that was sarcasm on my part..
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If that's the case. Then why was it implemented so long ago when simply logging in you had to be subbed? I guess you are entitled to an opinion on the feature as we all are. | It's a time sink. The people that are interested in it can spend vast amounts of time messing with it (and staying subscribed). |
The game is still fun, don't get me wrong but it could be so much better for everyone.
Anyone can take things out of context and mix it up see look!
http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/about_...m_overview.php
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| Get more than 20 issues of unparalleled immersive content for action-hungry MMORPG gamers, as well as ongoing regular content updates (issues) |
Regardless I have said what I felt like I needed to say.
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The same reasons why they added any content to the game back then. So people didn't get bored, and because its their job to continue expanding the game.
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Originally Posted by TClauss
If that's the case. Then why was it implemented so long ago when simply logging in you had to be subbed?
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Yeah I can agree with that..|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The same reasons why they added any content to the game back then. So people didn't get bored, and because its their job to continue expanding the game.
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What I do not agree with is that how we all are not on equal playing fields in terms of power. There's incarnate, and the invention system. I always thought that instead of limiting power there should be just areas or playable content, that paying customers can access. I can understand the incarnate, because its endgame content. But the invention system?
I can go on about this forever, its not like we are asking for everything free just a small very very enjoyable crumb off the cake.
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I think there should be a better way to resolve the invention situation myself (I said so from the beginning when Freedom's features were announced) but I think its disingenuous to claim the invention system is a minute part of the game when it comes to giving it away, but a huge part of the game when it comes to people's enjoyment of the game. Its a self-defeating argument to claim its just a very tiny part of the game: if it is, it should be ignorable. The *only* reason to consider revisiting the invention system situation is that its *not* a tiny part of the game, but rather a more fundamental part of the game in terms of its core gameplay.
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Originally Posted by TClauss
Yeah I can agree with that..
What I do not agree with is that how we all are not on equal playing fields in terms of power. There's incarnate, and the invention system. I always thought that instead of limiting power there should be just areas or playable content, that paying customers can access. I can understand the incarnate, because its endgame content. But the invention system? I can go on about this forever, its not like we are asking for everything free just a small very very enjoyable crumb off the cake. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Please forgive my "small" expression. I do not always choose the best ones.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I think there should be a better way to resolve the invention situation myself (I said so from the beginning when Freedom's features were announced) but I think its disingenuous to claim the invention system is a minute part of the game when it comes to giving it away, but a huge part of the game when it comes to people's enjoyment of the game. Its a self-defeating argument to claim its just a very tiny part of the game: if it is, it should be ignorable. The *only* reason to consider revisiting the invention system situation is that its *not* a tiny part of the game, but rather a more fundamental part of the game in terms of its core gameplay.
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I have never paid for any powersets - as a VIP I just use a lil bit of self control and save my points. After buying Water Blast I will have 620 points left.|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
I can feel for the OP and for a different reason: I'm a VIP player.. yes I don't get full access to the game. I have to pay stupid 'points' to unlock powersets that any other game would give me since I was VIP. I've already cancelled my sub. I already give this company the standard fee of $15 dollars which is no more than any other subscirption based game..
..yet they are still trying to sucker me into buying 'points' to unlock stuff that I should have immediate access to the moment it goes live. WoW doesn't even do this! And those guys are evil! EEEEVVVVAAAALLL. I dunno. I understand this game is technically 'dead' since it no longer rakes in enough cash from subscriptions and no, don't argue the technicalities and meanings of the word 'dead'. Because this game is certainly not vibrate anymore if that makes you feel better. The moment a game goes F2P or in this case P2Win, the game might as well be labelled dead. I hope City of Heroes 2 isn't going this route whenever they announce it's in the works. |
The only powerset I have not "purchased" is Street Justice as I had no desire for it. I even "purchased" Titan Weapons but have never actually made a TW toon.
Luckily you are getting out before the servers completely die....
Oh wait nvm.. just read your sig.....
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Wrong, and you only have to look at how most of the industry is moving to a hybrid freemium model to see that it's wrong. That attitude is very 2008 and it was pretty much wrong back then too. It's just there weren't enough extent examples to definitively prove the wrong-headedness of it. SOE didn't convert from an all-subscriptions model to an all-freemium model because every single one of their games was DOA. They did it because the games that they converted to freemium began making more money than they had been making as subscription games.|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
The moment a game goes F2P or in this case P2Win, the game might as well be labelled dead.
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Also, there is no City of Heroes 2 and never will be, IMO. There's no need for it, and if EQ2 and Lineage 2 have proven nothing else, they've proven that sequel MMO's tend to cannibalize their "parent" more than they generate new business.
The people at Paragon did a reasonable job in picking and choosing what's VIP only, what Freebies get and what's available for free for premium players who were once long time subscribers. Even the old vet rewards are attainable in a reasonable amount of time for relatively new subscribers.
The problem is for those who only subscribed for the short term, who only played the game after IOs became THE way to turn your character into a tiny God soloing with the difficulty set to +3/x8. They are the ones returning and finding their characters stuck with builds full of greyed out enhancements which probably cost them a pretty penny and loads of time. Even if they have an available 2nd build it's tough to enjoy only mere mortal/minor demigod status after never having to worry about any mob you come across. I think a lot of returning players find themselves in this group and are upset that all their "hard work" tweaking their characters got gutted and their choice is $2 or $15. They've never played with SOs, they've never slotted just SOs and they've never played through the content with such "weak" characters. "Weak" meaning they can't mindlessly steamroll over all the content in the game.
Also it's my opinion that Controllers got gated simply because they had to gate one hero AT due to the reasonable removal of Masterminds from the free game. Controller pets are relatively stupid compared to the control Masterminds have on their minions and there's been enough jokes about how devs hate villains.
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I'm not so sure I can agree with the way they chose to set the bar so high for invention access. I'm talking about the paragon rewards. In total I'm currently up to 18 months, that puts me one meter above half on the scale. I'm an old time player playing since the open beta with a brother who plays far more often then I. He's been more financially stable, so he stayed subbed longer. I say this only to explain why I haven't subbed longer. But being that I payed for the client, (was given CoV so I will not bring that one up), and GR. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
The people at Paragon did a reasonable job in picking and choosing what's VIP only, what Freebies get and what's available for free for premium players who were once long time subscribers. Even the old vet rewards are attainable in a reasonable amount of time for relatively new subscribers.
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Let me add all this up:
City of Heroes (with month of time) $34.95
Going Rouge (with month of time) Not factored it was on sale like $9.99 or something.
City of villains (with month of time) A Gift Not factored
15 months of gameplay (most of them cards which had cost more) $224.85 @$14.99 per month
Others (Perks) Not Factored
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$259.80 - I just don't understand how that doesn't give me the right to earn an invention license in game.
The fact is that I was a player back then, I do feel cheated out on some content on which is now a CORE (In my opinion, because of how I play the game, and on which character I spent the majority of my time playing) component. When the switch happened.
I guess I could always talk him into letting me play on his account. NVM this discussion! Peace!
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Or because it was a business model that was being utilised by the industry as a whole and they knew that if they didn't change to adapt they'd get left behind and further alienating potential new players as well old ones|
Originally Posted by GadgetDon
Except one must ask oneself - why did Paragon go to the trouble of introducing a Premium group of F2P, and add F2P at all? Presumably, one of the goals was having players who were players and quit for one reason or another to come back, give the game a try, and continue playing either as a resubscribed VIP or a Premium player buying points to buy some things here or there.
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| What Twilight is saying is that the user experience for that returning player, who wants to say "OK, what's it like to play CoH now", stinks on ice. You choose a character to unlock, using one of your few slots, and surprise it's unplayable. You do manage to get a character unlocked and playable, jump in the game, and the character is weak and easily killed because it effectively has no enhancements - and the answer is "well, pay money to try this game that you decided not to pay money to play and decided to try again because Paragon said you could do so for free, or spend a half hour or so making that character workable" |
I was a subscriber, and F2P system or not, I expect to subscribe for the stuff I had. If I wanted to "try" the game, the F2P system at the moment doesn't stop me from rolling a new character and doing exactly that without paying a penny. If I want access to my old characters, which I previously had to pay for by a subscription, then why wouldn't I expect to do so again?
I think the only "fault" is the way that CoH's F2P system is marketed. "Come back and play for free.. weeeelll kinda." And in that regard, their model isn't that much different to any of the others out there (at least from what I've seen)
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| And a lot of the potential long-term contributing and paying players just say "screw this, this is no fun at all, let me find a game where I can have some fun." |
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But if the devs made just a few changes, either "If you use one of your limited character slots to unlock a character, you can play it" or at a really base minimum "You get warned if you're unlocking a character you can't play" and "The character you unlock has its enhancements somewhat functional so you can just jump in and play", a number of them will say "Yeah, this is fun, I'm here to stay". It's not about "but I want it all", it's about "I want to have fun" |
However, I do think the biggest problem is simply about the way F2P is marketed. It used to be that if you unsubscribed the dev team would send you periodic emails saying "Come back and play for free for 2 weeks and at the end of the two weeks we'll automatically resub you" which meant that players genuinely had "F2P" for a period to try the game again to see if they wanted to resub. As the F2P model is actually part of the whole system, rather than just a "one off email sent to past players", I wonder if people are still expecting that old way of doing things and get a big shock when they don't get it.
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