So I want to return but...
*facepalms* Not only second what Texas posted, but I also repeatedly said being to downgrade to SOs and having to spend a hour or more per character to make new builds for SOs is totally unfun. Unplayable may have been too strong a word choice, I'll be honest, but the process of downgrading and playing downgraded is horribly unfun and doesn't encourage me to want to play more, free or not. Additionally, I've yet to say anywhere that I want everything a subscriber has without paying. I'm trying to decide if I want to pay for this game again, either as a Premium or a VIP, and am getting annoyed that the game seems to be doing everything it can to sour my experience and discourage me. Not get everything for free.
I doubt it'll help, but I think I'll go edit that in to my original post in big, bold letters. Why do people assume that someone wants everything handed to them for free when they have any sort of issue related to the current payment model?
I do think, and said so when Freedom first launched, that some sort of Free Trial to returning former-subscribers (Premiums) where they can play with all their toys would be best.
It could be rather tricky though... If they can't simply apply it to start the first time that account logs in post-Freedom.
If they can... Then give first-time-log-ins 15 days of unlimited access to their characters and IOs and such. Make sure there's a big TEXT WARNING along the lines of "These Things Will Go Away after a 15 day trial".
Sure, people would still complain, no doubt, but I think there'd be less of it and, more importantly, it'd give returning players a better welcome and a better idea of what they're missing by not sticking around.
I hope you do enjoy it back here.
As far as I'm concerned, the game is still going strong as ever... possibly better than ever in most categories.
And, for the record, I have spent less money since Freedom came along. I used to buy the Super Packs that would come out, but the VIP stipend has removed any need for me to spend any additional money.
Certainly one could go and spend money on getting anything and everything that they have for sale... but sticking to what I want and will use right away... I've not been running out of points.
So, as one wary customer after the announcement of Freedom... So far, I've gotten more for the same subscription price.
The people at Paragon Studios are still great as ever and keep delivering on things. Not everything is for everyone, but I have very few complaints.
And, most importantly... the game is still rocking fun for me.
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Yes, that would be deciding that the game is worth returning to and worth spending $5 every two months for points for the IO license or for a VIP sub every month in the current situation.
Not being able to try out my unlocked characters as I used to play them considerably deters me from being able to make a proper decision to do so, especially with the default option being "go elsewhere" if I end up lacking sufficient information. Things they could do to improve that are mentioned here, but that doesn't solve anything right now and I doubt any staff are reading this topic anyway.
Rescinded post - ignore me - ranting doesn't belong, especially when it won't be listened to anyway because the OP has already made up their mind.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting everything to be free. Not even close, they have to make money somehow after all. What I do miss is the awesome generosity they had back in the day. Been away from the game for awhile? Have a friend invite you and get some free time as a welcome back gift. Not sure about the game? Here, have a trial for a few days that lets you experience the whole game for it's short duration (said trial got nerfed like crazy, which was annoying, but I was a subscriber by then so it didn't directly affect me, just made introducing the game to friends a PITA). AFAIK, that kind of thing is gone. There's no VIP trials, no extra welcome back time, none of that. It feels like if they're already getting your money, they love you. If they're not, they don't care about you even if you've been a paying customer in the past. Or if you prefer, gone from "Hey, we made your game more awesome, please come back and join us!" to "Hey, we made your game more awesome, but if you don't give us money we're going to make it suck for you." Or if you prefer, they've switched from the carrot to the stick. It doesn't really encourage me to sink $15 or even $5 just to see if I still like the game when there's so many sticks smacking me when I log in.
Lots of ways they could easily alleviate that. The invite-back thing they used to have, letting existing characters from previous subscribers keep what they have if no longer eligible, just can't get more (maybe disabling Incarnate powers, no real opinion since I'm only losing a couple of alpha slots so I really don't know what I'm missing), allow accounts that have existed/been unsubbed for so long be allowed to activate a (maybe one-time) "free VIP trial" that lets them check out VIP benefits for a few days, stuff like that. I work retail, that kind of stuff works. You'd be surprised how much extra someone will spend for a single carrot and how much more likely they are to just dump their cart and walk out of the store when there's too many sticks. For example, a brand of flavored water wasn't selling at all. We gave free samples and now we have trouble keeping stocked, months later. But yeah, I'm not expecting to get everything free, despite how awesome it is with Aion (though the only thing I haven't spent anything in their cash shop is because they haven't put anything for sale that interests me). Anyway, I did read some of that diary topic and his experience is... a lot different than mine. But that's probably because he's Tier 9 and has almost no restrictions. I'm Tier 4 with 9 tokens, so I'm a long way off from having permanent access to Controllers, Masterminds, and IOs, along with other things. But I do have AH access. What I'm supposed to do with it when I'm not eligible for salvage or recipe drops, I don't know. At least my influence isn't capped so my wealthier toons aren't stuck having more inf than they can carry. And also, I have EAT access too. No clue why since I didn't buy it and I haven't VIP subbed, but my Peacebringer is perfectly log-inable. For the higher level characters with IO builds, I know, making SO builds was one of the first things I grudgingly did a year or so ago when I first tried Freedom. And spending a hour+ per toon making a new build and buying SOs isn't the best "Welcome back!" experience. And then having them perform as only a pale shadow of their former glory is not fun. At all. If you want to see what I mean and you have a spare build on an IOed alt, just log em in, make a second build, unslot your incarnate powers, and just feel how horribly weak it'll seem in comparison. It's not fun. That and I think I screwed something up on my Scrapper and Defender when doing the SO build because they perform like crap with them. And I'm out of respecs to fix it and my Scrapper already used up the trial respecs tweaking his too often since he was my first alt for me to experiment with IOs on. And I can't craft the respec recipe. Yay? But anyway, I took a more serious shot in-game. Maybe it's just Tuesday, but my server, Protector, was weirdly silent. Either nobody was on or they all went to new global channels. Sure, it's not the biggest server, but the global channels were usually chatty during evenings. So, having no idea which contacts in the contact finder gave old, sucky missions and which ones gave the new content, I went and ran a Mayhem mission since those always amused me. Yeah, paper missions were blah, but I fully expected that going in and I'm not really judging the game on those. And they at least amused me by putting four of the missions back and forth across the street rather than opposite corners of the map. Blowing up everything was still amusing, though PPD Ghosts are still broken (-45% stackable tohit debuff on a minion-level mob at level 30... seriously?). And I also realized I need to just suck it up and ditch the crappy Mac client and just install CoX on my Windows partition if I'm going to play again. The jittering frame-rate is a serious PITA (40 FPS! Now 7! Now 40! Now 7!) and, as always, adjusting my settings didn't help. Also, the memory leak is still there. Anyone know which files contain all the settings, or at least the ones I've set to default, such as key binds, window settings, and all that? I know where my costumes are stored, but not the other stuff. Oh, and Tymer, Freemium is still F2P. It's just one of several variants of it. Edit: Are options.txt and wdw.txt the settings files I'm looking for? Poking around trying to see if I can find it in the mean time. Not sure if there are others. |
Sorry I just have a hard time with people (not saying you) complaining they don't get enough for their money....when they aren't paying. So you subscribed for 2-3-4 years and want more for nothing?? Uhmmm try that with other companies and lemme know how that works for you. The freemium experience is basically CoH Pre Issue 9.... no IOs, no Incarnate.... etc... and it just grates my nerves when I see people complain about their "experience" and how they should get/deserve more.... You are getting what many of us paid YEARS for ...at no cost. I completely agree with the AT restrictions..IO restrictions.. being locked behind tiers.... there has to be SOME incentive for you to spend money for Paragon to stay a viable business. I also agree with Incarnate content being 100% VIP only.
This topic just hits a raw nerve with me....
So, in other words, "no" given that your solution explicitly involves you playing with IOs for free.
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Since it runs native rather than being emulated, I'm hoping the Windows client performs far better and I'm installing it right now to give this another go. Thank you install disks for saving me from having to download 3 gigabytes plus patches.
And yet had you tried to play the game Pre-Freedom without paying anything... your "welcome back" experience would have been nonexistent.
Sorry I just have a hard time with people (not saying you) complaining they don't get enough for their money....when they aren't paying. So you subscribed for 2-3-4 years and want more for nothing?? Uhmmm try that with other companies and lemme know how that works for you. The freemium experience is basically CoH Pre Issue 9.... no IOs, no Incarnate.... etc... and it just grates my nerves when I see people complain about their "experience" and how they should get/deserve more.... You are getting what many of us paid YEARS for ...at no cost. I completely agree with the AT restrictions..IO restrictions.. being locked behind tiers.... there has to be SOME incentive for you to spend money for Paragon to stay a viable business. I also agree with Incarnate content being 100% VIP only. This topic just hits a raw nerve with me.... |
*facepalms* Not only second what Texas posted, but I also repeatedly said being to downgrade to SOs and having to spend a hour or more per character to make new builds for SOs is totally unfun. Unplayable may have been too strong a word choice, I'll be honest, but the process of downgrading and playing downgraded is horribly unfun and doesn't encourage me to want to play more, free or not. Additionally, I've yet to say anywhere that I want everything a subscriber has without paying. I'm trying to decide if I want to pay for this game again, either as a Premium or a VIP, and am getting annoyed that the game seems to be doing everything it can to sour my experience and discourage me. Not get everything for free.
I doubt it'll help, but I think I'll go edit that in to my original post in big, bold letters. Why do people assume that someone wants everything handed to them for free when they have any sort of issue related to the current payment model? |
If you don't want everything for free, it should be possible to name something you want that you would be willing to pay for, not hypothetically or possibly sometime maybe in the future, but now. What do you want, that you are willing to pay for now?
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*facepalms* Not only second what Texas posted, but I also repeatedly said being to downgrade to SOs and having to spend a hour or more per character to make new builds for SOs is totally unfun. Unplayable may have been too strong a word choice, I'll be honest, but the process of downgrading and playing downgraded is horribly unfun and doesn't encourage me to want to play more, free or not. Additionally, I've yet to say anywhere that I want everything a subscriber has without paying. I'm trying to decide if I want to pay for this game again, either as a Premium or a VIP, and am getting annoyed that the game seems to be doing everything it can to sour my experience and discourage me. Not get everything for free.
I doubt it'll help, but I think I'll go edit that in to my original post in big, bold letters. Why do people assume that someone wants everything handed to them for free when they have any sort of issue related to the current payment model? |
Maybe because you are unwilling to spend $5 on a game that some have spent thousands on and yet you want to be on a level playing field without incurring any cost?
Maybe because there are posts like this every week about people complaining how they are not getting enough for their money when they aren't paying anything anymore?
Maybe because there is very little to separate Premium and VIP and VIPs feel that Premiums keep asking for more more more...
Maybe because Pre-Freedom one didn't have to worry about people complaining about not spending money on the game...and yet still being able to play?
Maybe because we realize that Paragon is a business that requires revenue and people complaining they don't give you more for nothing seems ungrateful?
You either want to play or you don't - it truly is that simple. If $5 is the breaking point for you due to financial reasons... my advice - enjoy the game you are allowed to play absolutely free. Instead of looking for everything you can't do...maybe be happy and grateful for the things you can do....at absolutely no cost to you. I look at it this way.... If (knocks on wood) my financial situation changed and I could not afford my sub for 1-2-3 months... I would be ecstatic that I could enjoy the game in any limited way possible thanks to Freedom. I tend to be a very grateful person though....and tend not to complain when someone offers me something for free. Not attacking you/your character but rather stating I think people in general forget to be gracious when given things.
In other words, you're either trolling me or being dense. I never said my decision to return hinges on IO access, though IOs are important to my enjoyment of the game and just the one thing that is brought up the most in this topic. If anything, performance is a far bigger concern as, historically, the Mac client has performed like crap and got a lot worse when Going Rogue hit, regardless of whatever I set my graphics settings to. I've literally had 7 FPS with minimum graphic settings, even though my computer meets or exceeds recommended specs. You can give me a ten year subscription and everything the store ever releases to me for free and I won't touch this game if it continues to run like crap for no good reason.
Since it runs native rather than being emulated, I'm hoping the Windows client performs far better and I'm installing it right now to give this another go. Thank you install disks for saving me from having to download 3 gigabytes plus patches. So, in other words, you didn't read my post and assumed I wanted the VIP experience without paying for it? |
"Sorry I just have a hard time with people (not saying you) complaining they don't get enough for their money....when they aren't paying."
And I never said you wanted the VIP experience for free... What I did say had you bothered to read my post was it is disheartening to see people complain they don't get more for nothing. What I did say was we see these complaints a lot. What I did say was you seemed ungrateful. What I did say was how I would be grateful if I were in your place.
Your huge wall of text was a rant...about what you don't get here for free with a few lines complaining about how CoH runs on Mac...so if there is any confusion on what your point was....it was in the message and not the inference.
In other words, you're either trolling me or being dense. I never said my decision to return hinges on IO access, though IOs are important to my enjoyment of the game and just the one thing that is brought up the most in this topic.
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Furthermore, your solution to that particular issue seems to involve you being able to play with IOs for free, which makes the statement "Why do people assume that someone wants everything handed to them for free when they have any sort of issue related to the current payment model?" seem a bit disingenuous regardless of other issues you may have which are not related to the current payment model (such as performance issues with the Mac OS).
That apparent inconsistency struck me as odd, and I was merely pointing it out. If I were going to purposefully "troll", I might do something like start a thread on a topic that I would admit to having past incendiary experiences with right in the OP. To really spice things up, I might use combative language and presumptuous indignation right there in the beginning. I believe I've seen that tactic used to great effect somewhere before, though I wouldn't be inclined to presume to know the motives of others...
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
In other words, you're either trolling me or being dense. I never said my decision to return hinges on IO access, though IOs are important to my enjoyment of the game and just the one thing that is brought up the most in this topic. If anything, performance is a far bigger concern as, historically, the Mac client has performed like crap and got a lot worse when Going Rogue hit, regardless of whatever I set my graphics settings to. I've literally had 7 FPS with minimum graphic settings, even though my computer meets or exceeds recommended specs. You can give me a ten year subscription and everything the store ever releases to me for free and I won't touch this game if it continues to run like crap for no good reason.
Since it runs native rather than being emulated, I'm hoping the Windows client performs far better and I'm installing it right now to give this another go. Thank you install disks for saving me from having to download 3 gigabytes plus patches. |
So, in other words, you didn't read my post and assumed I wanted the VIP experience without paying for it? |
It's not entirely unreasonable for people to come away from that thinking you're another returning player wanting their old subscriber experience for free, even in the presence of disclaimers stating you're not interested in that argument.
@Toast: Apologies, I missed that bit when the rest of your post kept saying stuff like "you wouldn't have a welcome experience" and "you are getting an experience many of us paid years for". That sort of made it come across as the post was targeting me specifically in a rather aggressive manner and made the (not you specifically) disclaimer in the middle of it easy to miss.
Anyway, mind, while there are those who may have spent "thousands" on the game, what they've spent in the past is their business and really has no bearing on the current state of affairs other than the free perks should they unsubscribe. I mean honestly, I find that mindset extremely aggravating because reality doesn't work that way the majority of the time. Say if you've been a long time shopper at a store who required membership to shop there and they suddenly allowed everyone to shop there one day, they're not going to give you a gold-plated shopping cart to use. You're going to get the same one as the new customers. Now you might get treated a bit better by the cashiers as they recognize you, but that'd be about it.
But yeah, however much anyone has spent on CoX before it went free to play is seriously irrelevant. If anything, it can easily be argued you got the massive perks of having 6+ years of exclusive access, possibly including stuff such as events that may never be repeated (like the Rularuu invasion) and able to provide feedback to help shape the direction of the game before Freedom launched. Free players don't have that and never will. And it's really besides the point regardless.
Let me ask you, as a (I assume) long time subscriber, how does being a bit more inviting to Premium players, former subscribers who may or may not have invested just as much or more time and money into the game as you have, harm you in any way shape or form? How much would it ruin your experience if they were offered a short, say five day, one-time VIP trial for free? Or if the characters they made were as usuable as always but had to obtain the necessary unlocks for any other characters of theirs to use those systems (say, can edit any MA arcs they had published while subbed but cannot publish new ones or republish it if they take it down)? I'm not saying "Hey, they should have MA access period!" or "Hey, everyone should have the VIP experience for free!" but rather dangle some incentives to make premium players stick around and want to either spend money in the store or resub. It frustrates people such as myself who've made multiple attempts to come back far less and it could generate more profit for the company. Like I said upthread, free samples can generate a heck of a lot of sales.
Also mind, money is only part of the issue . I'm also looking at time investment and opportunity cost, among other things. Will City of Heroes Freedom provide an acceptable amount of entertainment for the amount of time required to play it and for the cost of the other stuff I could be doing instead? In the past, this was true. Is it true now? I don't know, the sour experience I've had every time I've logged since Freedom launched has me rather unsure, but I've liked the game enough in the past I'm willing to try to get past that and see. But I don't want to spend any amount of money until I'm sure I'm making a sound investment. That might sound silly, but I'm tight with my wallet and I refuse to spend cash to try something without proper research. You may or may not be totally fine tossing $15 or $5 just to check something out to see if you like it or not. Me, not so much, especially with how much a game that transitions to a whole new payment model can change. I can tell CoX is quite a bit different since I last seriously played it and I need to know if I like the difference, but to do that I have to get over the demotivational issues (and, more importantly, the performance issues, if my Windows client ends up hating me too, I'm giving up regardless).
@Arcannavile: I'd pay for the same, similar enough, or better experience that I had from before. Vague, I know. If it helps, I do have things on my in-game store wishlist, I just forget what.
@Tenzhi and Biowraith: Understand when I originally made the topic, the issue of IOs and other such was particularly jabbing at me since I wasn't logged in long enough to really re-experience my performance issues (and was too annoyed at the other stuff) and didn't get to experience those in their full glory until I logged back in later to go try to do a Mayhem mission. IOs are an important point, sure, but one that can be overcame if enough other factors work out. It's also worth noting that I'm kind of annoyed at several people making posts as if I'm just saying "GIMMIE" and am also annoyed at myself for making this topic to begin with.
Edit: And the stupid NCLauncher seems to be ignoring that I installed all the assets from the disc and just needs to patch everything. I hate that stupid thing, but that's another, unrelated issue. At least it's not trying to force me to use PMB.
@Tenzhi and Biowraith: Understand when I originally made the topic, the issue of IOs and other such was particularly jabbing at me since I wasn't logged in long enough to really re-experience my performance issues (and was too annoyed at the other stuff) and didn't get to experience those in their full glory until I logged back in later to go try to do a Mayhem mission. IOs are an important point, sure, but one that can be overcame if enough other factors work out. It's also worth noting that I'm kind of annoyed at several people making posts as if I'm just saying "GIMMIE" and am also annoyed at myself for making this topic to begin with.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I don't see how they are asking you to fork your wallet over when the game originally was 15 dollars a month. You could pay the same 15 dollars a month and get that... OR you could buy a 30 day invention license which is like 2 dollars I believe? Maybe 5? So a third of the price.
Performance issues:
When I had to buy a new computer this year I did consider buying a mac. I decided to buy my current as I want to play games ( and in particular this game). I had read that the mac had some issue playing this game. Also it may be an issue with your computer that is causing the problems. I don't know.
Free, premium of VIP?
NcSoft is a business. They need to make money or they will go bankrupt. It is simple as that. When you were a player before you only had one option: sub and get almost everything to play. Or unsub and not be able to play anyhing at all. Due to whatever reasons you stopped playing and the business model changed in the meantime.
You can play this game absolutely for free, but you won't be able to use the IO system, Incarnates, controllers and masterminds and a lot of content. You can use previous gained tokens or money to get some of it back and become premium. Or you can become a sub like the old days and play most of the game. You will still have to buy some costume sets, and powersets if you want them, but you can use everything you did before at the exact same cost. Your choice. If you don't like those choices you have a fourth option: don't play the game it is entirely up to you.
Is there an acceptable solution to your IO problem that wouldn't involve you getting to use them for free?
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Or if that's a complete non-starter, have them degrade to DOs/SOs based on level. No set bonuses, no procs, so probably would be less effective than a pure SO build, but at least it's playable. The game may not require IOs, may be balanced around SOs, but it's definitely not balanced around "effectively, all your slots are empty". Worse, if there's the possibility you will subscribe again, replacing all those IOs with SOs is incredibly wasteful and going the second build route is boring and time consuming. Boring and time consuming is NOT the experience you want players who have just returned to the game saying "hmm, maybe I should get into this again" to have.
It's not an issue for me - I renewed my subscription when Freedom launched for all the new stuff and have no expectation to cancel, even if I were to let it lapse I've filled out the tree so can use IOs completely. But I've had some good friends who left the game who might be tempted to come back at least to see how it is, and this IO issue is a bad "box opening" experience, the experience of just getting back in.
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So.. you were a subscriber and got a load of stuff included in the game. You then stopped subscribing and stopped playing. If you subscribe again you'll get the same stuff you had and a load more stuff that's been added since. If you don't subscribe you have to pay for some of the other stuff in a different way.
Seems to me that if the game didn't have an F2P model, you'd probably have resubbed to try it out for a month without a second thought, but because it's advertised as "Come back for free!" it's a big load of bumm'ation when you realise that actually you can't really - at least not in the same way that you could.
I'm amazed this thread has got as far as 3 pages in all honesty. If you're complaining that much you can't be that fussed about coming back, so my advice would be: Don't.
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Yes, that would be deciding that the game is worth returning to and worth spending $5 every two months for points for the IO license or for a VIP sub every month in the current situation.
Not being able to try out my unlocked characters as I used to play them considerably deters me from being able to make a proper decision to do so, especially with the default option being "go elsewhere" if I end up lacking sufficient information. Things they could do to improve that are mentioned here, but that doesn't solve anything right now and I doubt any staff are reading this topic anyway. |
If you spend enough you can unlock it permanently.
Unlike the tokens given to VIP players, which are given on your billing date each month, tokens earned through buying points are given to you NOW.
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
SteelRat, you assume TwilightPhoenix would have resubscribed, but she hadn't.
The F2P elements of CoH have two main advantages, convincing old players to come back and give it another try, and convincing new players to give it a try.
When an old player comes back, they start on a journey to two destinations. "Oh, yeah, I remember why I played this game, I'm back, cool (and I'll dump some money into the game as a subscription or buy points)" or "Oh, yeah, I remember why I quit this game, I'm outta here (and if anyone asks my opinion of the game, I'll explain why they should give it a pass)". It serves the dev's purposes and the other player's purposes for the returning player to end up at the "remember why they played".
In this journey, the making a decision, it's pretty simple. Fun stuff pushes you to staying, unfun/frustrating/boring stuff pushes you to leaving. If you have existing characters of a high level, the issue with IOs adds a bunch of unfun/frustating/boring parts to getting back to playing those characters. Even if we know "well, they could just create a second build and then go through all the levels of training and then find a store and buy SOs to slot it out and then have fun"... (a) the second builds aren't a highly promoted part of the game, externally or internally, and (b) it's a somewhat long process of not-fun even if they perfectly remember their old build of what they like and how to slot them.
Is the game DOOOOMMMEEED if this lousy out-of-box experience continues? No. But assuming we'd actually like to have a lot of people playing the game, things that turn people off are not good.
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Guess you missed it.
Easy to miss, it was a rather long post. |
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Respecs need to be more readily available because a returning player that doesn't have an SO build can't play.
It's as simple as that.
The OP makes a good point insofar as his return wasn't a welcoming experience, and he shared that with us. That kind of feedback is piling up.
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I assume NCSoft wants ppl to return. The number of posts similar to the OP's seems to indicate that something needs to be done to welcome them back better. This may be as simple as some sort of way to notify them explicitly and helpfully about the vet/reward tokens to unlock features. But something to avoid a "wha? huh? that sucks! *walks away*" reaction that appears to be quite possible, and is not really the fault of the player.
IO's aren't required to play the game. There are several VIP's using SO builds or SO/HO builds. Up until a week or so ago I was running a SO/HO build on my main with no trouble and he's existed since the 3 day headstart. He had a few (3 or 4) common IO's slotted when I started the Incarnate arcs in DA and had picked up a few set pieces (Kismet +Acc, Celerity Stealth, BotZ KB protection, Numina Unique) in the meantime but only got fully specced into a cheap IO build in the past week. The rest of my characters use either SO/HO builds or simple SO builds for those under 50. Not much is likely to change there. All of my characters are effective and can run Hami Raids, zone events and RWZ Ship Raids with no problems. Since the game is still designed around SO's, it isn't necessary to have an IO build. That's merely a convenience.
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