DC plans to out a prominent character
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-05-21 08:58 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Since Xavin and Mystique are shapeshifters, do they even count? Xavin was even introduced as male until "his" bride-to-be said she liked girls.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
It was an interresting read, but then it got me thinking. What is the percentage of gays. Doing a good search it looks like it's figured to be 2% (but could be up to 5%).
So, with those numbers, article seems to say gays are under represented? Mystique, Rictor, Shatterstar, Karma, Batwoman, Renee Montoya, Northstar, Rainmaker, Destiny, Vodoo, Bunker, Hulkling, Wiccan, Xavin, Midnighter, Apollo...there's just a small list. Which, going by the 1940's estimate of 10%, they seem to have fallen in line with estimates. So where exactly is the under representation? Though he has a point, with all the changes they did make, why not just change one character to gay in the beginning if they can just come out and make all those other changes. |
I would also like to add Maggie Sawyer and the Pied Piper to your small list.
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dian - The original Green Lanterns son,
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Considering the decades it's taken to build up that small list? Yes. It is a SMALL list.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
It was an interresting read, but then it got me thinking. What is the percentage of gays. Doing a good search it looks like it's figured to be 2% (but could be up to 5%).
So, with those numbers, article seems to say gays are under represented? Mystique, Rictor, Shatterstar, Karma, Batwoman, Renee Montoya, Northstar, Rainmaker, Destiny, Vodoo, Bunker, Hulkling, Wiccan, Xavin, Midnighter, Apollo...there's just a small list. Which, going by the 1940's estimate of 10%, they seem to have fallen in line with estimates. So where exactly is the under representation? Though he has a point, with all the changes they did make, why not just change one character to gay in the beginning if they can just come out and make all those other changes. |
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They do count! At least to the list for gays/bis in comics.|
Originally Posted by Hazmatter
Since Xavin and Mystique are shapeshifters, do they even count? Xavin was even introduced as male until "his" bride-to-be said she liked girls.
I would also like to add Maggie Sawyer and the Pied Piper to your small list. |
To Agent White. It's a small list because the list of superheroes/villains isn't that big to begin with.
I was keeping to DC/Marvel with that list (Rainmaker was Wildstorm, but to my knowledge Wildstorm is DC now, so I put Rainmaker in the list), and it seems to keep within the percentages. So why would it be some huge list, as your post seems to say it should be?
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There's Julie Power of Power Pack fame and Karolina Dean of Runaways fame, who apparently are dating each other now.
I find your lack of signature disturbing.
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Except that is being something else. Unless the shark and hero are the same gender.
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Originally Posted by DocPhotonic
The phrase "jumping the shark" comes to mind.
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I think this is a strong possibility, but is his JSA going to be in the New 52 Universe proper? I thought it was going to be Earth 2 - I'd say that it would be hard to be especially prominent in something other than the main setting. James Robinson or Gale Simone would be the people I think most capable of writing something of quality here.|
Originally Posted by RosaQuartz
They're just starting to re-introduce the Justice Society; I'll bet it's someone there. James Robinson is writing that as well, and he's know for LGBT-friendly stories.
So yes, it's a publicity stunt, but as someone pointed out, Batwoman was also a publicity stunt and it's a great book. Hopefully this will be good as well. |
Also - I'm not sure that some one coming out as gay when they've been with the opposite sex is necessarily a retcon. I mean, unless people can retcon in real life.
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It's a retcon if there's no lead up to it and he/she comes out and says "Oh hey! I'm gay now!"|
Originally Posted by tensionfade
I think this is a strong possibility, but is his JSA going to be in the New 52 Universe proper? I thought it was going to be Earth 2 - I'd say that it would be hard to be especially prominent in something other than the main setting. James Robinson or Gale Simone would be the people I think most capable of writing something of quality here.
Also - I'm not sure that some one coming out as gay when they've been with the opposite sex is necessarily a retcon. I mean, unless people can retcon in real life. |
I just hope this gives them that added readership that they're trying to get with this. I doubt it will, but I do hope for the best from it!
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No, it would only be a retcon if they had the character as always gay when the character was previously not gay. A sudden outing would be a change to the character, and one that could be handled badly, (though hopefully not the way they choose to handle it) - but it wouldn't be a retcon.
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Well then, having a character who never showed signs of it, then writing up backstories for it, or past scenes but with a little different perspective, is just bad then.|
Originally Posted by tensionfade
No, it would only be a retcon if they had the character as always gay when the character was previously not gay. A sudden outing would be a change to the character, and one that could be handled badly, (though hopefully not the way they choose to handle it) - but it wouldn't be a retcon.
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It'll be just as bad as a retcon.
Of course this all depends on the character. There's bound to be characters who they can choose, who they haven't reintroduced before now, that were never shown in any type of relationship and who never talked about getting into one.
"I'm a hero. I fight crime. I am justice. These are mya dventures."
and then...
"Oh...want to know about my personal life?"
Then no, I wouldnt consider that a retcon.
But maybe it's my being cynical, I expect it to be more like "Oh? Chasing after and sleeping with all those women. Being engaged. The love of my life. Never once thinking of anything to contradict that. Yeah, I just decided, I'm totally gay now!"
Basically it'd be if they decided Peter Parker was now gay and came out. Never mind all the inner monlogue that would contradict it.
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...
Flash.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Eh, I can see where the guy's coming from, but I still think I'd have preferred a new gay character over the "coming out" of an existing character.|
Originally Posted by daveyj3
gay mogo!
anyway.... <_< here's a good article if y'all are interested  http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/05/...-gay-question/ |
The main reason why is that depending on how it's handled and how the character continues to be written I'm just afraid that if the character's storyline takes a turn for the worse, it'll be associated with the change in sexuality even if the parts people don't like are completely unrelated to that specific change.
It's one thing for a new gay character to just not turn out well but I just don't want the possible decline of a favorite kind of character to be linked to their being made gay.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
Eh, I can see where the guy's coming from, but I still think I'd have preferred a new gay character over the "coming out" of an existing character.
The main reason why is that depending on how it's handled and how the character continues to be written I'm just afraid that if the character's storyline takes a turn for the worse, it'll be associated with the change in sexuality even if the parts people don't like are completely unrelated to that specific change. It's one thing for a new gay character to just not turn out well but I just don't want the possible decline of a favorite kind of character to be linked to their being made gay. |
Sadly, I think the companies are afraid if the title bombs and they drop the title and ditch the character, they'll be ridiculed for ditching the character.
This way, they can sort of keep him, but move him to background character if need be.
Or maybe this is there way of making sure they don't abandon the character if it fails.
Saddly, outside of the first couple of issues, I don't think this will do anything for their sales.
Also, after some thought, I'm glad they're not outing wonder woman. Talk of Amazon characters being an island of all women, but rewatching the Wonder Woman animated movie (looking at their sales I seem to be one of the few to own it
) the island didn't come off like that all. And neither did some of the issues I've read in the past.Of course, they retconned lots of things with 52, so I guess that's always subject to change.
Also, once outed, I don't think they can undo it, due to backlash from non readers.
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Waitwaitwait.
Since when is Mystique gay?
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Since being in a relationship with the now deseaced, Destiny?|
Originally Posted by Forevermore
Waitwaitwait.
Since when is Mystique gay? |
[edit] But she's actually bi not gay. And as noted, she's a shapeshifter.
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For the last 30 years, apparently:|
Originally Posted by Forevermore
Waitwaitwait.
Since when is Mystique gay? |
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| As far back as 1981, Claremont had intended Destiny to be the lover of Brotherhood of Mutants teammate Mystique, and had originally intended for Destiny and Mystique to be Nightcrawler's biological parents, with Mystique taking the form of a man for the conception. However, at that time, the Comics Code Authority and Marvel policy prohibited the explicit portrayal of gay or bisexual characters. Destiny was simply referred to as the only member of the new Brotherhood that Mystique saw as a friend; all the other members being male and prone to arguing amongst each other. Much later, the two were confirmed to have been a couple. |
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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What was always intended and what was though, is two totally different things.|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
For the last 30 years, apparently:
Excerpt from Destiny's wiki page. |
But I have no idea when they made it official.
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The wiki lists Uncanny X-Men #265 from August 1990 as the issue that confirmed them as an official couple.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
What was always intended and what was though, is two totally different things.
But I have no idea when they made it official. |
Honestly 1990 seems pretty early on, like she was at the forefront of the movement to include LGBT characters in comics. (Maybe it only seems that way to me cause I was only 8 in 1990.)
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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I think an almost 10 year gap though could have easily had her "originally envisioned" changed to "something else entirely"|
Originally Posted by Oathbound
The wiki lists Uncanny X-Men #265 from August 1990 as the issue that confirmed them as an official couple.
Honestly 1990 seems pretty early on, like she was at the forefront of the movement to include LGBT characters in comics. (Maybe it only seems that way to me cause I was only 8 in 1990.) |
Kinda like how Wolverine was originally envisioned to be a mutant wolverine.
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Haven't seen him mentioned here, but I don't think the Riddler has appeared in the New 52 yet. He's prominent, and those green pajamas with the question marks all over them just scream "am I gay or aren't I?"
Yes I know he had a daughter, but that was before the reboot. And even then: cover up!
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I just hope it's not someone who is expected to be gay. So no Batman, Robin, Wonderwoman ect. I hope it's the Flash heh. I love me some Flash!
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Per DC it is supposed to be a male and someone that hasn't appeared since the reboot.....Wally West to my knowledge has not appeared since the reboot.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I just hope it's not someone who is expected to be gay. So no Batman, Robin, Wonderwoman ect. I hope it's the Flash heh. I love me some Flash!
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nnnoooo, it's still a small list. also, most of those are Marvel, and when DC unleashed the new 52, Apollo and Midnigher actually took a couple steps backward.
and Bunker is their new-gay-character and personally, he's kinda meh. i like that he's of color, and i love his personality, but his powers are pretty stupid... "energy bricks! i can control size and density of the bricks but they are still bricks!!!" wtf haha. i'd make them smaller so you cant tell they are bricks...
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Eh, I can see where the guy's coming from, but I still think I'd have preferred a new gay character over the "coming out" of an existing character.
The main reason why is that depending on how it's handled and how the character continues to be written I'm just afraid that if the character's storyline takes a turn for the worse, it'll be associated with the change in sexuality even if the parts people don't like are completely unrelated to that specific change. It's one thing for a new gay character to just not turn out well but I just don't want the possible decline of a favorite kind of character to be linked to their being made gay. |
and really it is nothing compared to some of the changes made to the other big names... cough:WONDER WOMAN:cough. cant be that big of a difference... and people dealt with that, like it or not.
also, originally Mystique and Destiny were supposed to be Nightcrawler's parents but that was too "controversial" so they've been intended to be a couple since around when mystique was revealed to be nightcrawler's momma i think
aldo, did snyone mention Living Lightning [Marvel] to the list?
there's actually a good sized list of all known heroes like these on wiki i think. but if you compare that to the list of ALL KNOWN heroes it is small.
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I know! That would be sooo awesome!|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Per DC it is supposed to be a male and someone that hasn't appeared since the reboot.....Wally West to my knowledge has not appeared since the reboot.
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Oh and I always thought of Mystique and Morph as Polyamourous sp? or Bisexual.
How can you only be into one sex when you can change into either one at will?
anyway.... <_<
here's a good article if y'all are interested
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/05/...-gay-question/
So, with those numbers, article seems to say gays are under represented?
Mystique, Rictor, Shatterstar, Karma, Batwoman, Renee Montoya, Northstar, Rainmaker, Destiny, Vodoo, Bunker, Hulkling, Wiccan, Xavin, Midnighter, Apollo...there's just a small list.
Which, going by the 1940's estimate of 10%, they seem to have fallen in line with estimates.
So where exactly is the under representation?
Though he has a point, with all the changes they did make, why not just change one character to gay in the beginning if they can just come out and make all those other changes.
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