The Shawarma Initiative *SPOILERS* AVENGERS DISCUSSION *SPOILERS*
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-05-04 24:12 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Quote:
Applying the actor's features to the model isn't the same as performance capture. Performance capture is where the actor wears a lycra bodysuit with pingpong balls at all the moving parts, and goes through all the actions (most well known is Gollum, but Avatar also used this process for the whole cast.)
|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
No, that's quite true. The Making Of documentaries for Incredible Hulk show Norton's face being applied with a greenish powder for the laser scanner to capture his face.
|
I really should do something about this signature.
Quote:
If memory serves, Ang Lee did all the motion capture work for his Hulk.
|
Originally Posted by Chyll
Except it is the second, I'm pretty sure. One of the on-set issues with the last one was Norton's insistence on using himself for the capture, as I recall reading...
|
Quote:
Could be. I went and did some hunting and couldn't find the reference I remembered reading...|
Originally Posted by Nericus
If memory serves, Ang Lee did all the motion capture work for his Hulk.
|
edit: for brain activity. or not Ang Lee's was not Norton's....
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
Quote:
I think it was mentioned in the assorted bonus material or commentary of Ang Lee's Hulk movie. |
Originally Posted by Chyll
Could be. I went and did some hunting and couldn't find the reference I remembered reading...
|
I think Norton helped with the capture process but wasn't as involved as Ang Lee or Ruffalo
Quote:
A friend told me he'd seen some footage on the DVD in the 'making of' section with Lee smashing up some cardboard tanks with gusto. Hearsay, but my friend's trustworthy. |
Originally Posted by Nericus
If memory serves, Ang Lee did all the motion capture work for his Hulk.
|
Quote:
I'd say DP/Devices with the fighting power pool tossed in for flavor for Black Widow.
|
Originally Posted by Tymers_Realm
It's funny, the GF & I kinda had a similar chat while waiting for a friend to meet us to see the Film last Saturday.
Shell head is dead on. With Thor, yes you could try and work a electrical type in, but for general use, I'd go Inv/WM as well. Hulk is dead on for a Brute as well. The GF wondered why not a Tank. I mentioned that the Brute suits the Hulk's nature better. Black Widow could go a couple of ways: DP/Dev Blaster, MA/Nin Stalker, MA/SR Scrapper. Personally, I'd go Stalker and pick up Pistol Temps. Hawkeye would go Arch/TA Corr, personally. I'd say Cap is dead on as well. Thank you for the time... |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
Also here's a Hulk comparison from Ang Lee Hulk to 2008 Hulk, to Avengers:
1. In Ang Lee Hulk, the same comic book magic from the comics that kept all the soldiers alive as Hulk smashed their vehicles, even the tank that he twirled and tossed was in this movie. For any vehicle that he smashed, listen and you can hear the personnel radioing in that they are fine but out of the fight. Ang Lee Hulk didn't kill even by accident.
2. 2008 Hulk: Ross briefs the troops and Blonsky and states that Hulk is implicated/responsible for some deaths, and when Hulk was attacked at the university it sure didn't look like any military personnel in the vehicles got away. In the fight with the Abomination, any civilian or military casualties were from Abomination, but HULK was going to use deadly force at the end if Betty hadn't screamed for him to stop. Also of course there was Hulk punting Blonsky down field, something that would have killed a normal man.
So a touch of realism in 2008 in terms of people being wounded or killed, but that kind of breaks the rule or tradition that Banner prevents the Hulk from using terminal force.
3. Avengers: Hulk looked like he was going to smash the Widow but Loki got him all riled up at first and then THOR intervened so we don't know if Hulk was going to crush her, but I kind of doubt it. HULK could also have crushed that fighter pilot but instead tossed him away to safety. The guy that helped Banner and tossed him the clothes pointed out that it was either luck or good aim that had Hulk land where he did, thus giving Banner something to think about before the big fight. During the invasion, Hulk looked to be using deadly force against the aliens, but in such an event where one is fighting for the safety of the WHOLE PLANET, I'd say terminal force is more then justified when facing the enemy.
Quote:
Given the way the aliens collapsed at the end, the may have been little more than bio-mechanical drones anyway.
| During the invasion, Hulk looked to be using deadly force against the aliens, but in such an event where one is fighting for the safety of the WHOLE PLANET, I'd say terminal force is more then justified when facing the enemy. |
I really should do something about this signature.
Quote:
Given the way EVERYONE was killing them things off, I can't imagine Hulk would be pulling his punches. Between Hawkeye hittin' 'em with his various and sundry arrows, Widow bustin' a cap, Thor smackin' 'em, and Tony blowing them up (combined with the copious amounts of purplish blood) leads one to believe that yes, they were killing them.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Given the way the aliens collapsed at the end, the may have been little more than bio-mechanical drones anyway.
|
I don't think they were drones. They seemed too anticipatory and more than a little gleeful at invading Earth. They might've been a hive-mind sort of thing or psychically linked to the mothership. When it went poof, they fell down.
Quote:
I own said DVD, and this is true. I find that in hindsight to be a bit wrong, as Ang Lee's physical performance feels wrong when you try and match it to Eric Bana's performance as Banner. But it seemed more about Lee getting his anger on more than anything else. |
Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
A friend told me he'd seen some footage on the DVD in the 'making of' section with Lee smashing up some cardboard tanks with gusto. Hearsay, but my friend's trustworthy.
|
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
Quote:
I'm not objecting to the fact that deadly force was used, we are talking about the fate of the planet itself after all. I'm simply posting a movie Hulk comparison:|
Originally Posted by Dark One
Given the way EVERYONE was killing them things off, I can't imagine Hulk would be pulling his punches. Between Hawkeye hittin' 'em with his various and sundry arrows, Widow bustin' a cap, Thor smackin' 'em, and Tony blowing them up (combined with the copious amounts of purplish blood) leads one to believe that yes, they were killing them.
I don't think they were drones. They seemed too anticipatory and more than a little gleeful at invading Earth. They might've been a hive-mind sort of thing or psychically linked to the mothership. When it went poof, they fell down. |
1. Ang Lee kept the comic book magic that Hulk never kills and that all the soldiers that fought him lived when clearly some shouldn't have. Come on he grabs a tank by it's cannon barrel and spin throws it. Anyone in there should have been dead.
2. 2008 Hulk: his power levels are reduced from comic book level and Ross stated Hulk was wanted in connection to some deaths and some of the soldiers that fought him at the university sure looked like they were killed. Plus Hulk punts Blonsky down field, something that in the comic wouldn't have happened. Hulk in the comic would have flicked a finger to knock someone like Blonsky out (Grey Hulk did that to Clay Quartermain in Peter David's classic run).
3. Avengers: no civilian casualties caused by the Hulk. Like the old guy that found Banner had said "or maybe just good aim" thus implying that Hulk/Banner angled their fall to hit the empty building to purposefully avoid casualties. During the big fight, Hulk is plowing through buildings, smashing the enemy but he avoided any civilians. Case in point the giant war dragon is bearing down on the building and then with a mighty roar comes Hulk running through the other side of the building to leap onto it and steer it away. No civilians hurt by Hulk, but plenty of aliens to smash.
Also I always chuckle at how Cap sized up the situation and gave everyone their orders based on their abilities and told them all what to do then turns and says
Cap: "And Hulk.......!"
Hulk looks at Cap.....
Cap: "......SMASH!"
Hulk just smiles and proceeds to follow the one and only order he needs.
Also what is the greater test of Asgardian's immortality:
1. THOR trapped in a Hulk Rage Cage that is dropping at terminal velocity from 30,000 feet (yes he broke out at the last minute but still that had to hurt)
2. LOKI being treated like a rag doll by the Hulk
I thought in the 2008 Hulk, except for Blunsky who in the end survived the blast, and the hulk may have realized he was on something to survive it, no one was killed.
I'll rewatch it later and see, but I don't recall any deaths at all. Now they did say he was wanted for deaths, buuuut, they were the military, I figured those deaths were
1) from the accident that created the hulk himself
2) the military progpoganda machine going on (ie lying)
3) The one scene in Ang Lee's Hulk (that I hated due to the special effects used), where the guy shoots Hulk with a grenade launcher, it bounces off, then blows up. They guy who was kinda a *** the whole movie to banner and wanted to burrow Banner's head with a drill.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Finally saw this last night. It was a 6:40 PM showing, and there were maybe 20-25 other people in the theater - not packed, but not bad for a mid-size town on a rainy Monday night.
Loved the movie, and pretty much the great lines and scenes have all been hashed out in this thread, but the one thing I got a chuckle out of that I didn't see anyone else mention was mark Ruffalo in the end-of-credits sceen. Watch his face - everyone is sitting there looking dead tired, not saying a word, and he just subtly starts cracking up. I don't know if it was an acting choice, or just a natural reaction to the absurdity of them sitting around a little cafe in their super suits eating sandwiches. I tend to think it was the later.
Other thoughts...
- I will be saddened if they bring Coulson back. I liked his character, but bringing him back would cheapen his death, not just for the characters, but for the audience as well. It will also make any other death suspect and less impactful.
- Much like... Forbin, I think it was(?), my dad was born in 1917, and served in the US Navy in the south Pacific during WWII. He married and had kids late in life - he was 49 when I was born in 1967. Robert Downey Jr. was born two years before me, so it's completely reasonable that Howard Stark was a young adult in the 1940s and had Tony at a similar later point in his life.
- If they feature new superheroes in Avengers 2, I certainly hope they will go with Wasp and Ant-Man, or better yet, Giant Man. I have nothing against Ms. Marvel, or Captain Marvel, or She-Hulk, but as founding members of the Avengers, I think Hank and Janet need to be included next time around.
- Regarding a storyline, I never read the Infinity Gauntlet storyline, so I don't know what it was really about or how difficult it would be to bring to the screen, but as Thanos loves(?) worships(?) Death, I could see him coming to Earth, not to enslave humans, but to kill them all. And unless they make the Hulk intelligent next time, I really think there needs to be a sequence where he goes out of control and it takes the combined might of all the remaining Avengers to take him down.
- Joss mentioning that he may finally be recognized at Comic-Con is pretty funny and very true. I first met him at Comic-Con in... 2006 I think. He was sitting at a side table in the DC booth chatting with someone - an editor, or writer maybe, I don't know, but he was completely anonymous - no one passing by was paying him any attention. I had my Firefly cast photo with me and so I stood off to the side until he was finished talking and then politely asked for his autograph. He signed my photo, and afterward agreed to let me take a picture with him. He seemed completely taken aback that I wanted either of these things, but I guess a few other fans recognized him and began asking for autographs after me. Although one person did ask me who he was, and when I told him, the guy merely shrugged and walked off.
I will definitely be going to see Avengers again, perhaps this weekend with friends, because I'm sure there were things I missed that I will pick up on durning a second viewing. For one thing - I didn't see Amadeus Cho in the TV interview segment, and I'm guessing there were a few other easter eggs on those screens as well. Also, I didn't realize that Alexis Denisof was the head Chitari! (But I did recognize Evan, Evar, whats-his-name from Dollhouse as a cop)
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
Quote:
6. Diana Prince (Wonder Woman)|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Well the list of who can lift Mjolnir in the comics isn't that lengthy.
1. Don Blake but then he is THOR or at least linked to him' 2. Beta Ray Bill 3. Dargo from the alternate future 4. Steve Rogers 5. Eric Masterson, not worthy at first but later proved himself worthy. Steve Rogers has only wielded the hammer twice in the comics so it is not as if he walks up to THOR asks to borrow the hammer for a bit. But to me it makes sense that he can wield it. |
7. Ororo Monroe (Storm)
- The Italian Job: The Godfather Returns #1151
Beginner - Encounter a renewed age for the Mook and the Family when Emile Marcone escapes from the Zig!
- Along Came a... Bug!? #528482
Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
- The Court of the Blood Countess: The Rise of the Blood Countess #3805
Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
Quote:
Wonder Woman was part of that Marvel vs DC/Amalgam junk as I recall and I am not sure if that series is considered canon anymore|
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory
6. Diana Prince (Wonder Woman)
7. Ororo Monroe (Storm) |
Storm: that was a hammer crafted by Loki to have similar powers to THOR back when Storm's mutant powers were neutralized. I do not recall her lifting Mjolnir
Quote:
In Ang Lee Hulk the guy that was blown up by his own missile bouncing off Hulk was Glen Talbot. He was always a jerk in the comics before he was killed. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I thought in the 2008 Hulk, except for Blunsky who in the end survived the blast, and the hulk may have realized he was on something to survive it, no one was killed.
I'll rewatch it later and see, but I don't recall any deaths at all. Now they did say he was wanted for deaths, buuuut, they were the military, I figured those deaths were 1) from the accident that created the hulk himself 2) the military progpoganda machine going on (ie lying) 3) The one scene in Ang Lee's Hulk (that I hated due to the special effects used), where the guy shoots Hulk with a grenade launcher, it bounces off, then blows up. They guy who was kinda a *** the whole movie to banner and wanted to burrow Banner's head with a drill. |
In 2008 Hulk we see Ross and Betty surviving the creation of the Hulk, it would follow that others there may have also, ie: Rick Jones.
It is possible that Ross was lying to the troops about deaths that Hulk was involved with, but go back and watch the fight at the university, I don't recall seeing many, if any, troops ejecting from their vehicles during that fight. Also that football kick he gave Blonsky should have killed him if it weren't for the SSS.
From wikipedia...
Quote:
|
Mjolnir has been wielded by a select number of other individuals: alien Beta Ray Bill; Avenger Captain America can pick up Thor's hammer.; Eric Masterson; Odin (Thor's father); Borr (Thor's grandfather); and Buri (also known as Tiwaz, Thor's great-grandfather). The hammer has also been lifted by various sentient constructs (non-sentient machines apparently cannot), such as Zarrko the Tomorrow Man's mining robot; the Air-Walker (animated by the soul of Nova Corps captain Gabriel Lan); and the Awesome Android (by mimicking Thor's abilities and worthy nature). The hammer has also been lifted by Earth itself when animated via magical means. There are also several other non-canon instances of other characters lifting the hammer, including: Conan the Barbarian; Dargo Ktor (Future Thor); Loki; Magni; Rogue (after absorbing the entirety of Thor's life force and thus essentially becoming Thor); Miguel O'Hara (Spider-Man 2099); Woden; Alex Power; and the DC Comics characters Superman (though he was unable to later that issue and Thor claimed Odin had briefly lifted the enchantment) and Wonder Woman. |
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
At least we didn't get Will Smith as Nick Fury
http://youtu.be/Xl3aMFVf14M (Youtube -- Avengers (Save the Day) music video)
Running City of Heroes Panel - Dragon*Con 2012 MMORPG track
Let's imagine for a moment that the all-seeing ODIN, King of Asgard, was observing the events in Avengers and saw HULK turn Loki into a rag doll and leave him embedded in the floor as says "Puny God"
What do you think ODIN's reaction would be? I'll sum up my guess in word:
"....whoa."
Quote:
I like to imagine Odin snickering to himself as he rushes to post a video of the smack down to UruTube before Heimdall can.
|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Let's imagine for a moment that the all-seeing ODIN, King of Asgard, was observing the events in Avengers and saw HULK turn Loki into a rag doll and leave him embedded in the floor as says "Puny God"
What do you think ODIN's reaction would be? I'll sum up my guess in word: "....whoa." |
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
well do remember that Loki is a wimpy god not like Thor or Odin.
I can't understand why Superman wouldn't beable to lift Thor's hammer. :/
Also in non comic continuity, Hulk in Ultimate Avengers lifted it with pure rage!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Yes but in the Ultimate Comics, is Ultimate THOR's hammer bound by the same worthiness enchantments? |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I can't understand why Superman wouldn't beable to lift Thor's hammer. :/
Also in non comic continuity, Hulk in Ultimate Avengers lifted it with pure rage! |
As to Superman, THOR did allow him to use it at the end of JLA/Avengers but after the big fight was over Superman couldn't lift it again. THOR assured him that the hammer was in good hands when Superman did use it and explained that in times of dire need the worthiness enchantment can be temporarily bypassed.
As to why Superman can't lift it......perhaps the hammer deemed him unworthy because he already has a lot of power? Power does corrupt after all if one isn't careful....
Quote:
Yes but if there ever was an Asgardian in need of a humility lesson besides THOR it would be Loki.|
Originally Posted by ryu_planeswalker
well do remember that Loki is a wimpy god not like Thor or Odin.
|
I'd say the Hulk taught him that lesson
No, that's quite true. The Making Of documentaries for Incredible Hulk show Norton's face being applied with a greenish powder for the laser scanner to capture his face. But yeah, he was all over every aspect of the film, which I have no doubt annoyed the heck out of the production team. Scriptwriting, performance capture, character modelling on the Hulk, you name it....
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse