Enhancement Proc Changes

This is a subtle, probably not purposeful Bait and Switch, seeing as at least a month's worth of testing went into the current SBE Procs on the market. The ONLY exception was Performance Shifter, thus why it's 'nerf' was acceptable en-masse.

With a MONTH'S WORTH OF TESTING, people knew exactly what they were buying. You may have not flat-out listed the PPM proc rates and information on the purchase screen, but a month is MORE than enough for people to know what they did, know how they work, and purchase them for that reason.

Not only, in doing this, did you 100% ruin the only 'perk' of buying SBE perks, but you're also nerfing them because "Oh no people are squeezing performance in City of Heroes!".

I know your EULA has a small clause stating we can't flail our arms and scream about these changes, but I also know an EULA is easily thrown out in court if you break a greater jurisdiction law. I really hope, for Paragon's sake, nobody has the willpower to take this to court.

I support the idea of making all procs PPM.

I do not support the idea of ludicrous caps that dynamically change the game.

I do not support 'subtle, accidental' Bait and Switch.


PS: I am also neeeever buying an IO off the Paragon Market again. Too subject to be randomly nerfed and the value going down. Yay for useless Mako's Bite procs.

You really need to refund these, Paragon. All sales are final is one thing, laughing at your player base because design made a boo boo is not kosher.

If absolutely NOTHING else, the Paragon Market versions could have a small advantage by having a slightly higher "proc cap" or whatever the heck. I don't know. I do know Stalkers are going to be screwed and the "Working as Intended" Stalker ATO proc will suffer for this.

That is a pretty nice bait and switch for anyone who purchased Super Packs specifically for that proc.

I would not call myself "gun shy" about the PM, but I have taken the position from its first release that anything bought there may change, and I consider that factor when thinking about buying something. The more amazing the something I'm considering seems, the more likely I consider it that it will be changed. There is no guiding principle I can offer other readers here - it's a "gut feel" thing. But if there is any advice I can offer, in anger or otherwise, is always think about whether you would pay those points if what you were buying was no better than something already in the game. If not, then don't buy it, at least at that price.

I'm fine with normal procs becoming PPM. It's a better system than legacy procs. What I'm not alright with is a 90% cap to the proc chance and the use of modified recharge for various reasons - all of which have already been stated in this thread. I don't think that creating parity between SBE procs and standard procs is a bad thing. SBE procs still have the tremendous advantage of being attuned, which is becoming more and more attractive to me with SSA content and other new contacts/zone revamps etc. often taking place at level ranges that aren't 50.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reppu This is a subtle, probably not purposeful Bait and Switch, seeing as at least a month's worth of testing went into the current SBE Procs on the market. The ONLY exception was Performance Shifter, thus why it's 'nerf' was acceptable en-masse. With a MONTH'S WORTH OF TESTING, people knew exactly what they were buying. You may have not flat-out listed the PPM proc rates and information on the purchase screen, but a month is MORE than enough for people to know what they did, know how they work, and purchase them for that reason. Not only, in doing this, did you 100% ruin the only 'perk' of buying SBE perks, but you're also nerfing them because "Oh no people are squeezing performance in City of Heroes!". I know your EULA has a small clause stating we can't flail our arms and scream about these changes, but I also know an EULA is easily thrown out in court if you break a greater jurisdiction law. I really hope, for Paragon's sake, nobody has the willpower to take this to court. I support the idea of making all procs PPM. I do not support the idea of ludicrous caps that dynamically change the game. I do not support 'subtle, accidental' Bait and Switch. PS: I am also neeeever buying an IO off the Paragon Market again. Too subject to be randomly nerfed and the value going down. Yay for useless Mako's Bite procs. You really need to refund these, Paragon. All sales are final is one thing, laughing at your player base because design made a boo boo is not kosher. If absolutely NOTHING else, the Paragon Market versions could have a small advantage by having a slightly higher "proc cap" or whatever the heck. I don't know. I do know Stalkers are going to be screwed and the "Working as Intended" Stalker ATO proc will suffer for this. That is a pretty nice bait and switch for anyone who purchased Super Packs specifically for that proc.

I think perhaps this a bit of an overreaction. I severely doubt that the EULA would lose in court. How are you going to argue you bought something in a game that changes all the time expecting it to always function the same? Especially when you specifically agreed to something that warns the content you pay for can be modified or removed at any time.

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Originally Posted by Kyriani It certainly feels like a bait and switch... get us to buy something by having it temporarily be something we want and then change it into something we would never have paid for. If bait and switch isn't the right term please feel free to point me to the term that adequately expresses what is going on here. And as for fraud... it certainly feels like I've been defrauded defraud [dɪˈfrɔːd] vb (Law) (tr) to take away or withhold money, rights, property, etc., from (a person) by fraud; cheat; swindle I've been sold a tonic that worked for a few days but then stops working once the vendor has gotten my money. I don't deny them the right to change things. I do however take issue with being denied my right to return said product for a refund. If a refund is simply not doable then grandfather existing SBE Procs and sell only the "new and *sarcasm* improved" SBE Procs in the store from here on out. If this happens without customer recourse it's a crime. If they refuse to refund me my points I'll simply stop my subscription until the point total + what I lose from my VIP bonus missing months as a subscriber (which I think should be able 4 months to break even). My vet status is enough that I won't miss much if anything and I'll deny them my patronage and dollars. If I can't make them see reason one way I'll show my displeasure by speaking with my wallet. If I cant get my refund in one fashion I'll simply TAKE IT in another.

Well, you can complain and whine about it if you want. I'm still happy I bought SBEs because they are attuned and I didn't have to waste hours buying and crafting them. For that same reason, I'll still buy them in the future. I'll probably even buy some purple sets just so I have more influence to spread around on characters that aren't my main.

@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian

A quick point, Vauluur, being attuned does nothing for procs. They function based on character level, not enhancement level.

I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30))
Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.

I agree with Uber here..anything I see them come out with that seems 'too good' I regard as subject to change. That said..the awful awful handling of the Performance Shifter change, specifically saying THAT would be changed, and NOT the other SBE procs..just rubbish.

I like the idea that the store ones would be a little better, even if it seems pay to win. But hey..they paid..they should get something.

I also agree with a 90% cap for procs. Come on guys, stop being greedy..its all in the name PROC. Having it go off every single time doesnt make it a proc.

The situation with store bought procs is different from making changes to Beam Rifle. There is no alternative Beam Rifle set you can earn in-game with slightly different stats. So people aren't buying Beam Rifle from the market primarily because they like the slight differences in stats.

As for me, I understand the need for store bought procs equaling in-game procs, but I've come to realize that I like having a choice between procs. One fixed rate to compensate for fast recharging and wide AoE powers' low DPS, another PPM to compensate for slow recharging powers' situational usefulness. All very zen and balanced.

Has anyone explored the "all of the above" solution? That is, both a fixed rate and a PPM proc in-game, and the same fixed rate and PPM procs on the market?

......Big shock here.

Game balance is king.

Making every proc PPM sounds kinda good, except for short recharge powers.

Doing what equates to a massive nerf to people with high recharge rates (pretty much everyone who uses IOs ever) sounds...real bad. People who found themselves performing well will now find themselves remaking their builds.

Can't say I'm pleased with this overall.

Hm. Personally, I'm not fond of the change to PPM.

I loved taking a fast recharging low damage attack and filling it up with damage procs, sometimes even skimping on normal damage slotting.

I may never again have the joy of seeing all 5 of my damage procs going off at once in Jab from superstrength. It was rare before, but with PPM reducing the proc chance, it will be a lot longer.

I guess I can understand that PPM are more balanced for various attacks, and for high-recharge vs. low recharge builds. But I'll miss mulling over if I want a damage proc in an attack, and tending towards using procs on lower-damage attacks.

If it's best for the game balance, it's for the best in the long run. But I'll miss the old way.

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This is quite a disappointing change. The extent of how often these procs fired was exposed a sufficiently long enough time before their release that they should have a) been corrected then or b) been delayed.

It was, perhaps, my poor assumption that store bought items should have some advantage over their counter-parts. After all, SBEs have the distinct advantage that they give their full enhancement value at max level and retain their set bonuses when exemplared to their lowest level. Is this an advantage that will be ruled out in the future as well? This sort of change makes me very dubious about making enhancement purchases and the like on the market again.