So... why aren't YOU pvp-ing?


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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader View Post
I certainly didn't mean that CoX PvP was literally equivalent to an FPS game. But compared to the PvE experience, it might as well be. When a fight between you and an "equal level" opponent can be reduced to a few seconds of button mashing, it isn't that much different than an FPS IMO.

One of the crucial differences between an RPG and a twitch game is that a character's combat prowess is encoded in his stats, not in the player's myelin sheaths. My scrapper should be a badass in combat because that's what's "written down" on his sheet, so to speak, even if I suck at fighting (or fighting games) myself. The moment you make success in PvP too dependent on players having split-second reaction times and mastering finely timed attack chains, rather than character traits and power matchups, it becomes less of an RPG and more of an FPS or twitch fighting game.
i'm guessing you're playing a different PvE game than i am if you think that character stats completely trump player skill and reaction time. (Or on a much lower difficulty level.) There's also the possibility that i tend to play lower level characters than you and/or mostly IO them to the extent required to play faster without worrying too much about making them safer.

So, basically you're saying you prefer the current PvP system. Fair enough, but i really did prefer pre-i13 PvP when characters in PvP played more like characters in PvE.

That and my Dark and Force Field Defenders seemed more useful. Oh, and my teleporting characters actually had a travel power.

i was never a major fan of PvP, but i used to find it fun to team up with friends or just roam around the zone knowing full well that i was unlikely to win any fights, but i could make it very difficult for others to defeat me and greatly increase the risk that someone or something else would get them while they were tangling with me. Mostly on my Dark Miasmist for the latter. Dark has (had?) some rather effective debuffs.

Still, barring an actual reevaluation and revamp of PvP rules i don't expect to enter PvP zones much in the foreseeable future. i can tolerate a few posterior headgarments, but the actual gameplay annoys me.


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Originally Posted by Vexen777 View Post
And just last night, Z challenged Virtue to PvP and it was great to see so many people doing it for the first time. Even after he left, it was fun to still play with others. Course my build wasn't ready on my Fire/Fire Brute but hey, fun non the less to beat up or lose to other people you've seen around the server.
Oh yeah, i logged on just after Z had issued his challenge. Needless to say i couldn't get into the zone or i would've dropped in to say "hi". i don't have any alts set up to be effective in PvP, but i would've had fun anyway. Another time perhaps.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
No, its not. Its like playing a game of baseball and ignoring all the heckling fans and the jeers of the opposing team. (Which hey, if you've ever seen or played sports, you know happens all too often.)
Right, and how many professional player teams show up in T-Ball diamonds and not just beat the kids horribly, but at the same time, have a few of the pro players berate and belittle them with insults. Very sporting. Way to foster future ball players.


 

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Originally Posted by FearlessDecoy View Post
... If my level 40 brute can handle large spawns of Arachnoids in Grandville missions, why does he get mauled by smaller spawns of Arachnoids in Warburg? ...
Yeah, no kidding. I've never been a big fan of having any NPCs in a PvP zone, but one thing that really ticked me off about i13 is that player characters took huge across-the-board nerfs to most builds, but NPCs in those zones weren't rebalanced accordingly. By the time you get to Warburg, it's a big deal.


 

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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad View Post
Yeah, no kidding. I've never been a big fan of having any NPCs in a PvP zone, but one thing that really ticked me off about i13 is that player characters took huge across-the-board nerfs to most builds, but NPCs in those zones weren't rebalanced accordingly. By the time you get to Warburg, it's a big deal.
Actually, it can suck asteroids much earlier, depending on what you're fighting. NPC mezzes aren't modified the way player ones are, but player protection from mezzes are modified to assume players (with very short durations) are mezzing them. Being held by a Madness Mage or stunned by a Freak Tank is way uncool under I13's rules ... and those guys are in Bloody Bay.


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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
-Not, trolling you Z-

If only we could get the same representation for bases.
That would be nice.


Still hate the visit Winscott mission- make it dropable, have it give actual exp or remove it altogether. PS- Down knows who you are.
J/ Wilde/
/ AIL - Celebrating five years!

 

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So the answer is for people who don't like to be called names which would be censored here to just suck it up?

Geee wonder why the pvp community isn't seen as a welcoming one in general?

Instead of telling people to modify their chat tabs...get over it.. etc etc.. maybe the pvp community should hold itself accountable in an effort to recruit more players who... GASP.. may actually have fun in a pvp scenario?

Zwil was on Freedom about an hour ago saying he was in warburg and to come find him etc.... I was on a team of 8.. we were like "Yeah...rather not deal with all that" (Meaning the trash talking..which even when Zwill is present isn't too bad.)

If the community was a lil more hospitable... and the rewards were...worthwhile - I would get back into pvp, but I see neither happening any time soon.


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

 

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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer View Post
-Not, trolling you Z-

If only we could get the same representation for bases.
I 'm sure bases will get mad love as soon as someone can manage to overhaul the system so it can be modified without causing death.


 

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Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
I 'm sure bases will get mad love as soon as someone can manage to overhaul the system so it can be modified without causing death.
Aside from some in-game items being added - I see no future for a massive base overhaul - like pvp - it is just not financially feasible.


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

 

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Let me answer your question with a question.

-Why- would I want to PvP in city of heroes?


 

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Originally Posted by ketch View Post
There should be no burden for anyone to actively ignore other players; we should all instead be burdened with the duty to act mature and civil. Just like your example, baseball players shouldn't have to ignore the fans; the fans should be behaving like adults.
I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that everyone's going to have perfect behavior all the time. There's always going to be a few people that are heckling or what have you - there's friendly banter, then there's trash talk, and then you just *shrug* and move on. I don't take issue with trash talking because I don't need to. I just beat 'em in game, problem solved. You can't compare online competition to offline competition like that, since people aren't anonymous offline. I'm not saying anonymity makes it right, just that it makes it more likely to occur. I simply ignore it (and I'll admit it's even amusing sometimes), though I realize not everyone has the ability to do that. What everyone seems to forget, though, is that it's usually a very small minority of people who are actually engaging in said trash-talking and it's very easy to forget about a small minority.

There are tons of misconceptions about PvP and the PvP community, and they've been around for as long as there's been PvP. It's the classic "I don't understand x, therefore y must be true" scenario. I've been on both sides of the PvE/PvP fence.


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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

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Originally Posted by macskull View Post
I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that everyone's going to have perfect behavior all the time. There's always going to be a few people that are heckling or what have you - there's friendly banter, then there's trash talk, and then you just *shrug* and move on. I don't take issue with trash talking because I don't need to. I just beat 'em in game, problem solved. You can't compare online competition to offline competition like that, since people aren't anonymous offline. I'm not saying anonymity makes it right, just that it makes it more likely to occur. I simply ignore it (and I'll admit it's even amusing sometimes), though I realize not everyone has the ability to do that. What everyone seems to forget, though, is that it's usually a very small minority of people who are actually engaging in said trash-talking and it's very easy to forget about a small minority.
Not so easy to ignore their actions. Sure the words can fall on deaf ears, but the actual pvp griefing isn't easy to ignore. You would think that since rewards are on a 5 minute timer once a person respawns/hosps and ventures out...the same people would leave them alone for oh..say..maybe 5 minutes? But no.. they like to team gank you and then "scream" obscenities. I gave up on pvp about a year or so ago when it became apparent the civility and maturity was never going to rebound to a decent level. So while many pvpers love to blame Castle/Issue 13 for the decline of pvp...they may also want to look at their "community" for being as pleasant as a venereal disease. Just saying....


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

 

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Asked and answered.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

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Originally Posted by macskull View Post
I don't think it's a reasonable expectation that everyone's going to have perfect behavior all the time. There's always going to be a few people that are heckling or what have you - there's friendly banter, then there's trash talk, and then you just *shrug* and move on. I don't take issue with trash talking because I don't need to. I just beat 'em in game, problem solved. You can't compare online competition to offline competition like that, since people aren't anonymous offline. I'm not saying anonymity makes it right, just that it makes it more likely to occur. I simply ignore it (and I'll admit it's even amusing sometimes), though I realize not everyone has the ability to do that. What everyone seems to forget, though, is that it's usually a very small minority of people who are actually engaging in said trash-talking and it's very easy to forget about a small minority.

There are tons of misconceptions about PvP and the PvP community, and they've been around for as long as there's been PvP. It's the classic "I don't understand x, therefore y must be true" scenario. I've been on both sides of the PvE/PvP fence.
Flat out hilarious post Mac. Even more so because you claim to 'move on' from trash talk..yet every. single. time I have seen you in RV..you are talking trash. Every time. Sure this was awhile back, so who knows, maybe you turned 13 in the interval, but please... tell it like is. Pretty sure I remember you droning many times to..to some people that is 'legit' but to most, lame lame lame.


 

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Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post


Asked and answered.
I now use my total lack of authority to declare this thread over!


 

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I don't like PvP. I suspect it's a cognitive processing abnormality or something, but basically, I can't experience hostility between avatars as a friendly thing, and I don't like unfriendly things.


 

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I used to be a big PVPer about a decade ago, when both games and gamers were generally more intense about it (i.e. asian MMOs with full pvp on every zone, important bonuses tied to it, hefty death penalties, with players that cared about it like it was the most important thing in the world). Going from that atmosphere to last and current gen MMOs where PvP is mostly consensual and has so many caveats and rules it feels like some children pretend fight I just couldn't get into it and made an immediate and complete switch to full PvE.

What also likely plays a part is back then I was in my late teens and didn't have much going on in my life, and games were a good outlet to relieve that need for aggressivity, competition and validation, and MMORPGs a good choice for the sore loser I've always been as grinding and game knowledge is worth more than pure ability in these settings. Nowadays, I get all the challenge I could ever need from real life responsibilities, I don't get that urge to fight with people anymore and when I do I find it more therapeutic to yell on random strangers or go on crazy rants on internet boards, and I just simply can't care enough to do my best even the few times I do play. It's funny; ten years ago I was that guy who yelled at the fools who didn't give their all, now I'm the guy who leaves a team game ten minutes in because I suddenly feel like eating a yogurt or watching TV documentaries.


 

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I still maintain that the problem with heckling is less the heckling itself and more the mentality behind it. Like it or not, City of Heroes is mostly a "carebear" game, which is to say it's a game populated by people who want to have fun, help others and just have an enjoyable evening. This takes a certain attitude and a certain type of community to achieve. Even if it's easy to ignore, having people who are for all intents and purposes "disruptive" just ruins the experience. How many times have you heard people say - on these very boards, no less - that they'll kick people from teams or at the very least quit teams because of negative attitudes?

I'm actually happy to say that we have a community that's not entirely tolerant of jerks, and people will - more often than not - speak up against such behaviour. It happens on the forums, it happens over global channels, it happens in teams, it just happens. You butt into a global channel conversation and call people names, pretty much that entire channel will turn on you because that's just not cool to do. People just like a friendly environment to play it here, and I can see why.

So, when you get heckling, name-calling and teabagging, you destroy that friendly environment. Yeah, I can ignore the person's chat, but again - this isn't someone I want to play with, chat or no chat. I know I can't hope that "we're all friends here" just because we're strangers, for the most part, but I can still hope for a friendly gaming environment.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Semi-repeating what I said in the other thread, but since we're on the topic of heckling, my god.

I will stress that since I don't quiz everyone I meet in-game on if they're pvpers, I have no idea how many pleasant ones I've met. But there is some sort of breed of them that shows up in the broadcast and the help having some pissing contest with someone and declaring they win because they could win a pvp match, regardless of what the actual topic of argument is.


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Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
Flat out hilarious post Mac. Even more so because you claim to 'move on' from trash talk..yet every. single. time I have seen you in RV..you are talking trash. Every time. Sure this was awhile back, so who knows, maybe you turned 13 in the interval, but please... tell it like is. Pretty sure I remember you droning many times to..to some people that is 'legit' but to most, lame lame lame.
I think you're thinking of a different person, because 1) most of the talking I do in zone is combating misconceptions about PvP mechanics and 2) I don't have a single character with TP Foe and my Grav/TA isn't even slotted. That being said, people who complain about droning amuse me. It's a perfectly legitimate "get out of my face" tactic and there are plenty of ways to counter it - oranges, a Kin, running a set with TP protection, or just not getting within TP Foe range in the first place.


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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast View Post
Not so easy to ignore their actions. Sure the words can fall on deaf ears, but the actual pvp griefing isn't easy to ignore. You would think that since rewards are on a 5 minute timer once a person respawns/hosps and ventures out...the same people would leave them alone for oh..say..maybe 5 minutes? But no.. they like to team gank you and then "scream" obscenities. I gave up on pvp about a year or so ago when it became apparent the civility and maturity was never going to rebound to a decent level. So while many pvpers love to blame Castle/Issue 13 for the decline of pvp...they may also want to look at their "community" for being as pleasant as a venereal disease. Just saying....
Killing someone (who is out of their base with the PvP timer off) repeatedly in a PvP zone isn't griefing. Killing someone who is capturing a pillbox isn't griefing. Killing someone who is killing one of the AVs in RV isn't griefing. "Griefing" is TPing someone into a crate or other funky map geometry so they're unable to get out, or getting below the map and killing people as they spawn into the hospital. You're in a PvP zone and you should assume hostilities because, after all, it is player versus player. I realize this doesn't make sense to some people, but it's been said before that PvP zones are more or less "anything goes" so long as players aren't abusing glitches or exploits.

Regarding the PvP community, that's a classic case of people listening to a small minority and judging the entire community based on that minority. In reality, even those PvPers who occasionally troll /ac or broadcast are some of the best, most helpful players I know. After I13 when a vast majority of the experienced PvPers up and left, the game lost a huge amount of knowledge.


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"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

 

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Regarding trash talking in PvP zones:

While it is true that some PvP players did and do engage in trash-talking, I have to say that some of the most hate-filled, nasty, and vile text that floated across my screen in PvP zones came not from the PvPers but from the players who were killed in their attempt to get a badge.

I understand being frustrated and I understand venting. And I am not accusing anyone in this thread of doing so because I honestly don't know if you did or didn't engage in such invective. But one who gets killed in a PvP zone who then hurls insults should not be surprised to get the insults hurled back and to have the vultures circling for a chance to get another bite in.


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I don't PvP because it just seems like way too much hassle to get competitive about it. Everything works differently, in ways that don't seem to be well documented at all, and PvE skill and experience just don't follow over. It's pretty much a completely different game- and not necessarily a very good one.

The big post on the last page basically said that to make PvP work in City of Heroes, you'd basically have to make it a completely different game. And at that point, why bother?


 

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Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
Flat out hilarious post Mac. Even more so because you claim to 'move on' from trash talk..yet every. single. time I have seen you in RV..you are talking trash. Every time. Sure this was awhile back, so who knows, maybe you turned 13 in the interval, but please... tell it like is. Pretty sure I remember you droning many times to..to some people that is 'legit' but to most, lame lame lame.
Im probably less sensitive than others but i dont think i have ever seen macskull trash talk anyone but poned.
Also if you are going to point fingers make sure you haven't stalked a person irl and and aired personal affairs in rv broadcast.