Time to beat the dead horse... again
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-04-13 09:25 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
I agree with the OP that redside lacks unique content.
Recently I find the devs try hard to put as much of the things red side has into blue side as well. -yep Like Putting all cool maps into blue side missions and TFs, signature villains as Ally, Coralax into the Hollows, ... All of my friends that play the game made a hero first, as default, -yep and tried a villain when they felt like experiencing something new. But with putting everything cool from redside into blueside too, you've pretty much seen it all already. -yep You can play a 'villain AT' without going there, -yep saw all the cool mission maps, fought alongside and against all the signature villains, learned all the lore and secret plots, and played all the co-op missions already. -yep-yep-yep So all that is left are the contact arcs, that are often good indeed once you make it past the awesome choice of Snakes or Snakes but hold little new as well; having to do all the bank missions if you want the accolade; and the parts of zones that were too boring to also be a mission map. Lack of exclusive content that makes redside interesting? Yes. (And yes, the real incentive to be a villain, getting power and wealth without working hard for it, is not there. Maybe villains should get more inf for completing arcs and robbing banks? After all heroes get bonus inf for saving people in the streets.) |
You make strong arguments.
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I shouldn't even dignify that with a response. Suffice it to say it was the answer I expected. I'll leave you with this thought, from the movie "Dogma":|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The world.
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"Do you know what makes a human being decent? Fear."
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Guess I21's Mercy revamp, the new I22 20-25 arcs, the villain half of the SSAs, and the villainous choices throughout Dark Astoria never happened, right?|
Originally Posted by NecroOmNomNomicon
I'm not gonna hold my breath for any new treats Red-side.
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Originally Posted by Acemace
To put it bluntly, how many issues with zero redside only content must it take to reveal the obvious.
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Ɑ-:
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Originally Posted by xzero45
redside doesn't need it's taskforces revamped because they don't suck.
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I think by then I had already packed my bags. |
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Guess I21's Mercy revamp, the new I22 20-25 arcs, the villain half of the SSAs, and the villainous choices throughout Dark Astoria never happened, right?
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Even though it didn't affect me, its good to see some love went to redside.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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Even before then we got Dean MacArthur and Leonard, Mortimer Kal's SF, Vincent Tarikoss, their own villainous Ouro SFs, Barricuda's SF which is actually considerably different from Dr. Khan's, along with 5th Column added to various places throughout the Isles. Pain Domination was even a villain exclusive powerset. Not to mention villains get default access to Patron Pools, while heroes are required to go villain if they want to pick one up. Again, there was never something heroes got that villains didn't in their own way.
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
I think by then I had already packed my bags.
Even though it didn't affect me, its good to see some love went to redside. |
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Perhaps you misread what I said. Read it again.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
Even before then we got Dean MacArthur and Leonard, Mortimer Kal's SF, Vincent Tarikoss, their own villainous Ouro SFs, Barricuda's SF which is actually considerably different from Dr. Khan's, along with 5th Column added to various places throughout the Isles. Pain Domination was even a villain exclusive powerset. Not to mention villains get default access to Patron Pools, while heroes are required to go villain if they want to pick one up. Again, there was never something heroes got that villains didn't in their own way.
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Please buff Ice Control.
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Perhaps you misread who I quoted. Read it again.
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Perhaps you misread what I said. Read it again.
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You're saying there's equality. If so, where is the 10-15 SF? Where is the 30-35 SF? It's been 6 yrs since CoV launch and still neither exists. Meanwhile CoH has had them since creation (8 yrs). There have been 17 content updates during that time and still nothing. The WST mechanic highlights the SF vs TF discrepancy every month.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Perhaps you misread who I quoted. Read it again.
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Are you ignoring this? Yes or no?
Please buff Ice Control.
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Oh, that. Completely forgot about that, considering just how small of an issue it really is. If you're really going to throw a hissy fit and say the villain population is lower because we lack two whole SFs, ignoring everything else villains have and have gotten over the years, that's pretty ridiculous.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
You're saying there's equality. If so, where is the 10-15 SF? Where is the 30-35 SF? It's been 6 yrs since CoV launch and still neither exists. Meanwhile CoH has had them since creation (8 yrs). There have been 17 content updates during that time and still nothing. The WST mechanic highlights the SF vs TF discrepancy every month.
Are you ignoring this? Yes or no? |
Edit: Also, in terms of equality, like I mentioned earlier. Villains get Patron pools by default. Heroes have to actually stop being heroes and become villains to get them. Not to mention the villain side SSAs give temp powers and the Kal SF gives a temp buff that lasts until level 50. Heroes don't get that. So the equality thing goes both ways.
i would love for some red side love, ive played basically exclusive reside content since i started playing (actually city of villains is what got me into the game to begin with) and even on the forums i use the villain skin
pretty much the only reason im blueside nowadays is for badges when they add in new lowbie arcs i have to ouro, the closest i get to heroside is with my 2 rogues so i can still help friends who may be playing on that side but i will always play redside
i personally prefer the atmosphere as a whole redside, ive never found the zones to be full of environmental garbage, or too small, ect, i find the hero zones too big and too bright and too many tall buildings
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Pretty much.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Oh you mean like it did within 48 hours of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans?
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http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-anim.php
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
Can't come up with a name? Click the link!
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Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I think they should just open the door all the way. All content open to all... no alignment restrictions whatsoever. Make the whole game co-op.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I think the time for the game to just merge is fast approaching.
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I've posted this idea before, but the above quotes mirror what I think is needed to get a red-side zone revamp. If a red-side zone gets a revamp, give heroes access to it. They'll get permission from Lowbow or Vanguard, and they can go to the zone that was revamped.
I'm not sure how this affects the viability of the whole morality system. Since alignment merits are pretty sweet, I don't think it does. Just make sure that Heroes in Rogues Isles can't use the ferry/black helicopter/tunnel and I think that will be enough to differentiate a Hero in Rogues Isles from a Vigilante. The Heroes will basically be one zone at a time.
Anyway, I'd love to see new TFs and new red side content in general. I'd love to see some serious zone revamps. But I think to get that Heroes will have to be given access to the content, straight up. It's the only way.
Technically, there's been a merging going on for quite a while now with the co-op zones - there's now First Ward, Night Ward, Cimerora, RWZ and Dark Astoria, plus Pocket D for holiday events - and NW now means that there are co-op zones covering 20-50+.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Redside can get all that, it just means when they do, they'll be giving blueside the same thing. So when villains get a new strike force, heroes will be getting a new task force.
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That's beside the point :P|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
People don't find villains as attractive as heroes - especially in a comicbook game.
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I think it just comes down to little variety and change in scenery. Granted, GR suffers this same problem as well. But as a Freedom char, I could go to Parez Park instead of Steel Canyon if I wanted or Kings Row.
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I tried playing redside when CoV was first launched. I found traveling thorugh the zones to be too much of a chore for a low level toon so I stayed away and only now cross over so I can get my PPP.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
There's a reason the redside population is lower.
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Lack of content is why I don't go Gold side not Red...
With that said my opinion is they should make only co-op TFs from here on out as it is not out of the realm of possibility that a hero may need to go on a quest with a bunch of villains and vice versa, and all three areas should soon be linked via a new system in I23.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
With that said my opinion is they should make only co-op TFs from here on out as it is not out of the realm of possibility that a hero may need to go on a quest with a bunch of villains and vice versa, and all three areas should soon be linked via a new system in I23. |
While that certainly makes sense, due to how co-op content has been written, Villains have been feeling like they're just tagging along on hero content. So much so that in SSA 7 Vilalins actually get the line "fine, I'll go save the world again"
This is a problem, in that it just shows how bad things are. Yes in comic books there are times when Villains have to team up with Heroes. Those stories are special in that they are rare. However here it happens too often.
While I understand making co-op content is good financial sense, I'm annoyed by the fact that it is always hero themed content. To me it seems lazy. We all know that it's easier to write stuff with a heroic slant. We also know it's just as easy to create a scenario where Villains have to team with Heroes or be destroyed/loose the planet/dimension/ what have you.
What I would like to see is co-op content where heroes have to team with the Villains because the macguffin/plot device can only be used by the villains or is the villains specialty. Yes it's harder to write that scenario and maintain realistic motivations but I think something like that could do a lot to even out the TF/SF disparity.
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Bravo! Well said sir.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
That's what makes a hero a Hero. They see all people as 'us' and even the villains as wayward 'us' who need not only to have their evil acts stopped, but redemption. That's why if a villain is about to be killed by their own evil machinations, the hero will even save that villain.
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http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes#
Where is the Wretch Strike Force? All the Patron side-kicks get their own Strike Force -- Ice Mistral, Barracuda, Silver Mantis . . . but no Wretch!
Why you make Wretch sad?
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
I just want to /sign the OP's request. I'm not going to get into bigger issues like the thread has devolved into (fixing redside or even the nature of humanity). I just want an SF for 30-35. I can even live without a 10-15, if I had to choose just one. But 30-35 is a glaring hole that needs covering.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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LOL. I was thinking this while doing a STF the other day. Wretch's dialouge alone would be worth it. |
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Where is the Wretch Strike Force? All the Patron side-kicks get their own Strike Force -- Ice Mistral, Barracuda, Silver Mantis . . . but no Wretch!
Why you make Wretch sad? |
Not that anyone reads the dialouge for Task Forces.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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Task forces have dialogue?
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
LOL. I was thinking this while doing a STF the other day. Wretch's dialouge alone would be worth it.
Not that anyone reads the dialouge for Task Forces. |
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It's the darnest thing.
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Originally Posted by Agent White
Task forces have dialogue?
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
I agree with the OP that redside lacks unique content.
Recently I find the devs try hard to put as much of the things red side has into blue side as well. Like Putting all cool maps into blue side missions and TFs, signature villains as Ally, Coralax into the Hollows, ...
All of my friends that play the game made a hero first, as default, and tried a villain when they felt like experiencing something new.
But with putting everything cool from redside into blueside too, you've pretty much seen it all already. You can play a 'villain AT' without going there, saw all the cool mission maps, fought alongside and against all the signature villains, learned all the lore and secret plots, and played all the co-op missions already.
So all that is left are the contact arcs, that are often good indeed once you make it past the awesome choice of Snakes or Snakes but hold little new as well; having to do all the bank missions if you want the accolade; and the parts of zones that were too boring to also be a mission map.
Lack of exclusive content that makes redside interesting? Yes.
(And yes, the real incentive to be a villain, getting power and wealth without working hard for it, is not there. Maybe villains should get more inf for completing arcs and robbing banks? After all heroes get bonus inf for saving people in the streets.)