Time to beat the dead horse... again
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-04-13 09:25 in Suggestions and Ideas
Redside got a late start and thus was behind in content. And will always be behind for the following reasons...
PvP, one of the main reasons to even have a redside was never balanced between powersets and AT. Never balanced in zones, since one side could just rush the other side with numbers, and that was usually blueside since it started first. And never fixed properly to the satisfaction of PvPers. And it had its share of the usual immature gankers found in all online battle games which drove away other players.
In a Supers game, more people want to play heroes than villains. And with the problems that redside had (less popular RP, being late, not successful PvP, less content), it never became as popular as blueside.
The Devs knew that there were twice as many heroes being played than villains. Their resources became *very* tight under Cryptic, and so, what development time they had was weighted for heroes by fiscal necessity.
The only thing left for the Devs to do to justify developing redside is to go with co-op and to leverage assets made for blueside. And then to let people shunt back and forth from red to blue and merge markets and bring redside more into the totality of the game than a separated world into which pouring resources would be fiscal suicide.
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Redside has a lower population because redside has a low population. Let that sink in.
It's a never ending cycle. It's not very populated so people don't want to play there, therefore no one will make characters in redside making it pretty empty. I like villains personally and would gladly welcome a new SF with open arms.
Zombie Man summed it up pretty well as far as having nearly separated the game. Though I see a lot more red RP on Virtue since most casuals/freems will play blue while people will roll a villain for RP purposes.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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There sorta is... Mort Kal is 20-40.
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Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
30-35 Strike Force.
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Kal is never used to pair with a 30-35 Task Force as the WST, so we still need something in that slot.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
There sorta is... Mort Kal is 20-40.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
They really should add more co-op stuff with existing zones. Dark Astoria was a great idea. They took a great looking but empty hazard zone and made it playable for everyone, and did a pretty damn good job at that.
Why not further that idea and make Croatoa coop and ad some newer TF's and content. Keep it at the same level it is now, just revamp it for coop play. It would add some life to the zone and at the same time give villains more content and trials/tf's at mid level. And since its already existing content I'd imagine it wouldn't be as hard to do as a new zone. Its a win win for all.
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You mean Croatoa 2-I mean Nightward? |
Originally Posted by SmegHead
Why not further that idea and make Croatoa coop and... |
I could see Shadow Shard having potential to be revamped, but I think we're all sick of Rularuu again already thanks to Wade.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
The OP wants to talk equality?
We can talk about red side getting an exclusive SF when two major signature villains are killed off and removed from the red side zones. 
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Meh. Maybe that was to make up for the inequality? |
Originally Posted by Mystic_Fortune
The OP wants to talk equality?
We can talk about red side getting an exclusive SF when two major signature villains are killed off and removed from the red side zones. |
Kidding.
Lol gave me the image of replacing awesome villains like Recluse with the ones nobody likes like Blast Furnace or Bipolar-Fire.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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I have no objection to that.
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Originally Posted by Mystic_Fortune
The OP wants to talk equality?
We can talk about red side getting an exclusive SF when two major signature villains are killed off and removed from the red side zones. |
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
Well lets see
Recluse 1
Patrons 4
Lackeys 4
Arbiter Sands 1
Dr Aeon 1
total 11
So Redside has all of 11 major Signature Villains.
Since you want to talk about parity it would seem that Blue Side could stand to loose several more of their signatures.
Personally I 'd rather have a couple of new SF's instead, but if you want parity ....
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It'd be worth it to kill every signature villain just to make blueside get a Flambeaux TF.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
Well lets see
Recluse 1 Patrons 4 Lackeys 4 Arbiter Sands 1 Dr Aeon 1 total 11 So Redside has all of 11 major Signature Villains. Since you want to talk about parity it would seem that Blue Side could stand to loose several more of their signatures. Personally I 'd rather have a couple of new SF's instead, but if you want parity .... |
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
Humans generally prefer helping and protecting instead of hurting and destroying, so evil content will always have a much more limited appeal - and as a business, Paragon Studios needs to appeal to as many people as possible.
@Golden Girl
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I think they should just open the door all the way. All content open to all... no alignment restrictions whatsoever. Make the whole game co-op. Completing a TF or SF can affect your alignment. Perhaps add some other bonus effects from doing something within your chosen alignment... but remove the content restrictions. After all, a villian CAN try to defeat the Clockwork King... the argument that they "wouldn't" do it, or that a hero team wouldn't accept help from a villian is suspect, and that option would exist without restricting access, ...to say it's impossible for a villian to do a TF is kind of silly.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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I vehemently disagree with the assessment that redside is poorly implemented, it may be markedly less popular, but in respect to implementation it is superior to blueside. Redside has clear and easily accessible service hubs, centralized zone travel, less redundant/non-used zones, and higher quality legacy content with clear progression. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Redside is fundamentally broken. I know that there are people that enjoy that side more, but it's time to realize that the many, many flaws in the implementation of that side means that the population will always be lower. Time spent making new strike forces in the lowbie game could be spent making co-op or hero content that will get used a lot more.
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That being said, I only really expect co-op or paired content from here on out, I highly doubt they will release any hero-only content though, because the devs are obviously taking pains to maintain parity of new content between sides.
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I don't play beta so I really know very little about nightward. I wait for it to hit live to actually play. Its that much like croatoa huh?
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Originally Posted by ShadowMoka
You mean Croatoa 2-I mean Nightward?
I could see Shadow Shard having potential to be revamped, but I think we're all sick of Rularuu again already thanks to Wade. |
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Meh. Sometimes you just want to get away from being a good person :P.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Humans generally prefer helping and protecting instead of hurting and destroying, so evil content will always have a much more limited appeal - and as a business, Paragon Studios needs to appeal to as many people as possible.
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Originally Posted by SmegHead
I don't play beta so I really know very little about nightward. I wait for it to hit live to actually play. Its that much like croatoa huh?
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http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Shadow_Mokadara
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I'm sick of this argument because it just hasn't been demonstrated to be true or relevant. I'd bet real money that most people want to play BOTH heroes and villains. We've seen data on how many hero characters are in the game vs how many villain characters, but we haven't seen data on how many players have hero characters vs how many have villain characters. And we haven't seen data on how much time the average player spends playing a hero vs playing a villain. Most importantly we don't have data on what players WANT to play vs what they feel compelled to play by the game. But even if that data DOES support the idea that there is twice as much interest in heroes...|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Humans generally prefer helping and protecting instead of hurting and destroying, so evil content will always have a much more limited appeal - and as a business, Paragon Studios needs to appeal to as many people as possible.
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... even if people want to play heroes more, that does not mean that there are an insignificant number of people who want more things to do with their villains. Let's suppose that "twice as many heroes as villains" corresponds one-to-one with players and there are only a third of the playerbase who prefer playing villains. You're saying it does not make sense to spend ANY time developing something that a third of your playerbase wants if the other two thirds doesn't care about it?
If that's your argument, let's talk about flying discs and liger pets.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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This is not the case and everyone knows it. Humans are naturally evil and we all know it.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Humans generally prefer helping and protecting instead of hurting and destroying, so evil content will always have a much more limited appeal - and as a business, Paragon Studios needs to appeal to as many people as possible.
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People only stay on blue side because of the lack of blue skies/clean environment/green grass and the higher chance to Team.
I'll just agree that there needs to be more (and new) SFs redside like the OP has mentioned.
However, I doubt it will happen..."better time spend elsewhere" and all that 
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I am not going to slam you, but I think this has more to do with your personal perspective vs the reality of human beings over recorded history. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Humans generally prefer helping and protecting instead of hurting and destroying, so evil content will always have a much more limited appeal - and as a business, Paragon Studios needs to appeal to as many people as possible.
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Having said that I think the appeal of the "red side" or "evil" is very strong in these games. Villians would not have even been made if that were not the case. Not to mention a very popular space game that has two E's in the name and the other one with laser swords.
Evil has a consistent appeal in these games and always will.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I argue the reverse. The majority of people are upstanding members of their communities already, so being a villain in-game is more cathartic. If you listened for a change, you'd find that it's not the content people object to, it's the bleakness in the Isles.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Humans generally prefer helping and protecting instead of hurting and destroying, so evil content will always have a much more limited appeal - and as a business, Paragon Studios needs to appeal to as many people as possible.
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I hate the content too. I LIKE being the good guy, and have no desire to be a bad guy. I am a good guy in real life, I am happy with being the same in this game.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
I argue the reverse. The majority of people are upstanding members of their communities already, so being a villain in-game is more cathartic. If you listened for a change, you'd find that it's not the content people object to, it's the bleakness in the Isles.
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The zones are depressing, and lag is worse, and people like playing super heroes.
However, at one point in time the stories were better written and implemented. With far less hunts and fed ex missions. Another problem is the contacts all treat you like a chump (they are evil after all) and if I don't have the option to stomp a mud hole in them, then I don't want them talking to me like that.
Now that I can start with any AT blue side, I will NEVER play red side again. I don't really think there is anything short of letting me beat the hell out of my contacts at the end of every arc that could get me to play red side again.
Shoot the only contact I like (Hardcase) everyone else hates.
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Ugh I just hate wailers in general *bahumbug*.
The only reason I played redside before was to see the new content and have access to exclusive AT's and powersets. Well I've seen the content with 8 lvl 50 villains. And now that I have proliferation and can make any AT I want and go blueside with it, I rarely return to redside. I just don't prefer it.
P.S. Anything to fight less Longbow, amiright?
If there was ever a TF/SF that needed an update... it's the Synapse TF.