Give Scrappers a real inherent power
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2012-03-23 13:26 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Yeeeeeeeeeah . . . no, they'd still be dirty, dirty scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Well, I guess it would help remove some of the stigma of teaming with scrappers if they at least have the illusion of basic social graces.
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Although I don't think scrappers need anything, I would not object to any and all buffs, fluff or otherwise.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I don't want it to trigger any less often than it does now. Sorry if I was not clear there. I am just saying rather than buffing the crit chance (except for the ATIO proc), buff the damage the crit does. x3 damage crit would make it different from the stalker crit.
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Just thought I'd state that.
EDIT: (Then again who would argue against any type of buff if they got eventually anyway?
)
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If they are going to try to balance scrappers to just put something unique to it (which devs will do) than no thanks it does not worth risk that losing some DPS or survivalbility just because people are whiners because neighbours kids got a new toy.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Although I don't think scrappers need anything, I would not object to any and all buffs, fluff or otherwise.
Just thought I'd state that. EDIT: (Then again who would argue against any type of buff if they got eventually anyway? ) |
If you want something unique go and play one of the other melee AT's. I am playing scrappers because they are simple and don't have anything unique if devs will change anything about scrappers I will put around half of my characters (which includes my main) into a locker and won't touch them.
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I agree with this. But then people claimed that Stalkers were irrevocably broken. I'm not even claiming that. I just want something like a unique inherent. |
Originally Posted by Reppu
Actually, you probably get scoffed at due to hyperbole.
But, let's face it. Titan Weapons needs some major nerfs, Clobber from Mace could deal 50% less damage and still be broken as sin (because it is). At this point, Melee Sets either need massive nerfs (Titan Weapons NEEDS massive nerfs regardless), or Blast Sets need serious buffs (All blast sets need to be buffed to Fire Blast levels of damage AT MINIMUM, and then increased from there. Don't believe me? Fire Blast is equal to Katana, an average Melee Set. EQUAL TO THE MOST AVERAGE MELEE SET :|) Wait, this thread was about Scrappers not feeling special anymore? ... Shut up. |
Hell, I wouldn't care if they just gave Scrappers their inherent back and let Stalkers have the rest of their toys.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Placate replaces Confront. And if you are saying you would rather have Confront instead of Placate....then I have to question your honesty, sanity or skills. Probably all three.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Generally speaking, I'd much rather have whatever Placate replaced than Placate.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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And that would return stalkers to being third in damage behind Scrappers and Brutes. Yes I do think this would quell scrapper concerns.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I agree with this. But then people claimed that Stalkers were irrevocably broken. I'm not even claiming that. I just want something like a unique inherent.
Hell, I wouldn't care if they just gave Scrappers their inherent back and let Stalkers have the rest of their toys. |
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Scrapper New Inherent: Scrapperlock
Passive: Scrappers now receive a +1% damage self-buff for every teammate outside sixty radius.
There, sheesh.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The problem with Scrapperlock is that non-Scrappers act like Scrappers have the free will to avoid it or something, "Read your chat!! We were going to stop here and buff up, you moron!!!" Yeah, who's the moron there?
So, I propose this as the unique Scrapper inherent: Scrapperlock. With Scrapperlock, when 80% of a spawn is defeated, the Scrapper's chat window is removed from the GUI and the Scrapper is teleported to the next nearest full spawn generating a 30 foot AoE taunt. Let the Emp Defender finish off those bosses, that's what they're there for.Oh, and a version of Scapperlock should be ported to Brutes, Tankers, Stalkers, Blasters, and all Epic ATs. 5) Yes? |
Only agreed to if after defeat the Tanker version automatically Team-chats "nice heals."
Stalkers got a buff that they sorely needed. Citing them having a bunch of 'toys' means nothing. Yes, they have a bunch of stuff, and all of it adds up to them just barely out-damaging Scrappers in single target DPS- which is what they were designed for in the first place. Its is not the quantity, but rather the quality- Stalkers get a bunch of little toys that hey need, Scrappers are just fine without them and need nothing new.
That said a Size Up thing would be cool, due to it not being in any way a buff. However, this should be extremely low on the Devs' substantially long 'To-Do' list.
This has no merit and does not deserve to be on the devs to do list ever.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Tankers will also get HerdLock:|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Only agreed to if after defeat the Tanker version automatically Team-chats "nice heals."
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When a Tanker institutes HerdLock, their teammates are Immobilized and Phased while the Tanker tries to grab more agro than the mechanics allow. HerdLock isn't over until ranged-only foes are convinced to move to melee distance during non-stop spamming of Taunt.
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What would happen to Kinetic Melee's Concentrated Strike? Would Power Siphon recharge twice? Would it crit for full damage and fully recharge Power Siphon?
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I don't want it to trigger any less often than it does now. Sorry if I was not clear there. I am just saying rather than buffing the crit chance (except for the ATIO proc), buff the damage the crit does. x3 damage crit would make it different from the stalker crit.
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It would actually be pretty funny if "Scrapperlock" occasionally showed up over an enemy. Maybe if you do a high amount of damage to a single target in a short timeframe.
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Please explain why. |
Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Stalkers got a buff that they sorely needed.
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Were Stalkers unable to solo effectively?
Were they unable to perform their team role (Damage)? If so, why not?
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I am just as glad that you are not a dev as I am that J_B is not a dev.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
This has no merit and does not deserve to be on the devs to do list ever.
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Is Black Pebble your father?
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
This has no merit and does not deserve to be on the devs to do list ever.
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Were Stalkers able to solo as effectively as Brutes/Scrappers(/Tankers)?|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Please explain why.
Were Stalkers unable to solo effectively? Were they unable to perform their team role (Damage)? If so, why not? |
Were they able to perform as well as Brutes/Scrappers in their team role of damage, when considering their (Normal) lack of AoE and decreased survivability?
If your answer is "yes" to either one, you're lying.
Stalkers could not solo as effectively as Brutes or Scrappers due to their, generally radically, altered melee sets. CoX is a game of AoE, we can't deny that in 2012.
Additionally, even with their team-buffed 30% Crit Rate before their buff, Stalkers were not keeping up with Scrappers or Brutes. And don't pull a TwoHeadedBoy and say your KM/StJ/MA Stalker was keeping up. Those three sets do not define the AT as a whole. Oh, and those sets perform better on those AT's anyway (Sans StJ now, Stalker version could use a bit of a nerf. A small one.)
Stalkers did not perform on the same level as their brothers/sisters/whatever. Period. It's not even debatable. They had far less survivability and did less damage.
=/= Logic?
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Are Scrappers unable to solo effectively?|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Were Stalkers unable to solo effectively?
Were they unable to perform their team role (Damage)? If so, why not? |
Are they unable to perform their team role? If so, why not?
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Not only am I glad you are not a dev, but I am also glad that they tend to ignore people that make merit less suggestions that would take their time away from things that have merit. |
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I am just as glad that you are not a dev as I am that J_B is not a dev.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I thought I'd share a small anecdote about why I have absolutely no need for confront that happened to me tonight.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Yes you are the satisfied with the big crutch type obviously. A smart player would identify and anticipate when someone else will be compriomised about them and act on it instantly, and by using confront will more than anyother likely guarantee a challenge accepted. It pays to have confront in a PvP team by a huge amount too, you taunt the tank, freeing up the tank in your team to go do something about the gankers. It can be the same with AVs that fear mainly. An AV could be dealing a particular mezz type a Tanker isn't built to resist but your Scrapper is, whilst a Tanker is Black Holed there is no telling whether or not the Tankers duration is long enough and a couple of confronts to protect the team could be nice. I never do the getting of certain support sets for a team, everything I need is basically everywhere.
I am going to be rough on selfish builds in future and support the non selfish ones only. The Scrappers I see pushing their boundaries might find themselves over and over their heads more. If they can't bring anything to the team other than their own ego then sod them. |
I was running a BAF this evening on my dark/shield scrapper. He (obviously) doesn't have confront. We had 22 people on the league, including a tank, 5 brutes and 2 scrappers (including me). I had to leave melee range in the AV fights 6 times because I had gotten my second sequester warning. Once during the nightstar fight, twice during siege, and three times during the fight with both. Now I do realize that shield has a taunt aura, however the fact still remains that even without confront I was consistently taking aggro from 7 other melee characters, most of whom had better aggro control abilities than I did, with just damage.
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No, I guess we just are of like minds on this topic.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Is Black Pebble your father?
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Placate replaces Confront. And if you are saying you would rather have Confront instead of Placate....then I have to question your honesty, sanity or skills. Probably all three.
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Placate is alright on a Stalker but on a Scrapper its just Chicken.
One of the confronts is called Warriors Challenge. It compels a target to have no choice but attack you. Which is not Chicken.
I have just had confirmation that the Scrapper with the highest DPS on the Rikti Pylon Challenge did happen to have Confront.
Which means quite frankly not only could it do wonderful DPS but I'd tank the snot out of the game with it.
Win/Win
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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The Shield has an enviable Taunt Aura, combined with the damage buff from AAO it can lift your threat quite reasonably well, but what you are using as an example is just a small corner of the game. I like my Scrappers to tank everything from level 10 and beyond, no exceptions. On the server I am from I have converted many Scrappers and Tankers into taking the power. With Tankers, unaided I tank what they can not and that's enough. With Scrappers, it could be saving their controller, it could be tanking the whatever. On so much can the need for anyother AT be eliminated. You can do all that Scrappers are meant to do with one Scrapper or you can leave out confront because you have no idea of how not to build/live without combat jump or something stupid like that.
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Originally Posted by firespray
I thought I'd share a small anecdote about why I have absolutely no need for confront that happened to me tonight.
I was running a BAF this evening on my dark/shield scrapper. He (obviously) doesn't have confront. We had 22 people on the league, including a tank, 5 brutes and 2 scrappers (including me). I had to leave melee range in the AV fights 6 times because I had gotten my second sequester warning. Once during the nightstar fight, twice during siege, and three times during the fight with both. Now I do realize that shield has a taunt aura, however the fact still remains that even without confront I was consistently taking aggro from 7 other melee characters, most of whom had better aggro control abilities than I did, with just damage. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Uh, really? The reason they used Confront was most likely to keep it from killing their Lore Pets, or any other pet they happen to have. Aside from showing off solo, confront offers no increase in DPS. Rather, a decrease due to the time spent using it. |
Originally Posted by New Dawn
Placate is alright on a Stalker but on a Scrapper its just Chicken.
One of the confronts is called Warriors Challenge. It compels a target to have no choice but attack you. Which is not Chicken. I have just had confirmation that the Scrapper with the highest DPS on the Rikti Pylon Challenge did happen to have Confront. Which means quite frankly not only could it do wonderful DPS but I'd tank the snot out of the game with it. Win/Win |
If you want to tank on a scrapper, yer doin it wrong. Scrappers scrap, Tankers tank, Brutes be Brutes and do a bit of both. Yes, you can go outside these stereotypes, but I guarantee you that a Brute or Tank would do whatever you are doing on your taunting Scrapper better.
If a squishy is dying, there is a certain trick I call 'Punch The Enemy In The Face. Repeatedly'. This results in A) it ignoring the squishy and B) It dying.
Win/Win
As an aside, 'Punch The Enemy In The Face. Repeatedly' is the same tactic I use in 98% of scenarios, with adjusted targeting for each of course. I do what a Scrapper is supposed to do- I Scrap.
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