SSA #6 Story Discussion ** SPOILERS **
By
15bribri15,
Posted on: 2012-02-21 05:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Fine, then you've shown that Manticore has about the same amount of background as anyone else without showing any pressing need for a "reset". Let's face it, if you hadn't been around for the wedding and no player had told you about it then you'd be hard pressed to even demonstrate in the game that Justin and Shalice are married. You sure can't show that Justin has somehow gone soft and that he needs some hardening up.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The comcis and novels don't really matter for this - the SSAs and any other story content aren't being targeted at multi-year vets who have picked up a lot of the lore - these are for fresh players and VIPs too - people who will only know as much about the characters as the game tells them, because that's their only reference point for the CoHverse.
That's why the Phalanx are shown in the tutorial comic, and the tutorial itself, and why we get quite a bit of interaction with Manticore during Twinshot's arcs - since I21, there's been a big push to get more lore into the game, especially at the lower levels. |
It's basically just "What if Manticore had to kill his wife to save the world? What a horrible choice to have to make! Let's do that!" It has nothing to do with expanding Manticore's character. Jack's legacy, such that it is, gets laid to rest and everyone's favorite teen grows up and moves into the vacated spot on the team.
Frankly, I want to know why Manticore is free to participate in chapter six instead of sitting in jail on charges of attempted murder.
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Which allegedly cool things are these? I can't think of a single legacy arc that forces you into the role of spectator at the climax the way the SSAs tend to do. In the legacy arcs, you're the one who takes down Countess Crey, Nemesis, Dr. Vazhilok, the Kronos Titan, Hro'Dtohz, and more. You crash the final ceremonies of the Freaklympics and shut them down, you raid the Revenant Hero Project's lab and capture the head scientist, you rescue Sam Wincott. What you DON'T do is stand around wringing your hands while NPCs have it out.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Well, really you'll be getting your Synthetic Hamidon Origins from the Sedated Hero One Task Force.
Ogi, I consider the fact that the player is even on the scene at all of these major events to be a pretty large concession to player coolness. Look at any legacy arc: every single allegedly cool thing that happens happens in the mission debriefing because they didn't have the wherewithal to put it into the missions themselves and still release the game on time. I agree that the mood is pretty dire after part six, but if the options are "The devs want players to suffer because they secretly dislike them" or "The devs want to create a situation so bleak that it would take the king of all badasses to come in and save the hapless NPCs from themselves," do you really think they're going to go with option one? |
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
I just want to know when Penny Yin's costume parts will be available for purchase. *opens Paragon Points purse*
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There's their argument in Fort Trident |
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Let's face it, if you hadn't been around for the wedding and no player had told you about it then you'd be hard pressed to even demonstrate in the game that Justin and Shalice are married.
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Another thing this does is that it really ramps up the tension between Manticore and Penny - in the leaked part of the 2nd SSA on beta, his distrust of her as the newest member of the Phalanx can now be interpreted as partly down to the fact that her very presence there is a constant reminder of who she's replaced.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
SlickRiptide, I think you have to assume that the police just throw up their hands at some point and say "heroes will be heroes!" in the world of CoH, otherwise players would have an awful lot to answer for as well. Like how about Janet Kellum's arc where you allegedly become the city's most wanted criminal after Countess Crey frames you: feel free to walk right up to a police drone or into a police station, or city hall, nobody seems to be stressing about it. Or how about redeeming a villain via tips? Oh, you're nice now? Well, you did murder hundreds if not thousands of people, but we'll call it good.
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Haven't they? In Faultline, Tremblor is 5'10" and wears a t-shirt under his jacket. In the RWZ arcs and in the SSA, he's about 6'5" and has what I think is the Justice top in browns under the jacket.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
4) Chronology nitpick: When heroes rescue Penny Yin, we are explicitly told that it's been "many years" since we met Penny back in Faultline. And yet? Neither Jim Tremblor nor Fusionette have aged a day. If Penny's in her 20s, should they both be grown-ups in their late 20s or maybe even 30?
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Fusionette is also also taller in the RWZ and has Vanguard armor bits added to her costume. I didn't notice if they used the same model in the SSA, I had my pets deal with her while my attention was elsewhere, but they should have been using the same model as the RWZ.
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I asked on Facebook about any story updates in Faultline to reflect the passing of time, and got a vague "no comment" kind of answer
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I figured they'd kill her off and bring her back à la Phoenix/Jean Grey, this is probably the beginning.
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I don't consider beating up a warehouse full of guys to be a very climactic moment. Crimson's arc is a great example: you run the same mission something like fifteen times in a row while being regaled with stories of international intrigue and eventually you fight a resized and reskinned Zeus Titan (which, come to think of it, is a pretty funny name) twice in a row. Wow. The only cool thing about that arc is that you can use trickery to summon the Kronos in lowbie zones which can be a fun mini-event.|
Originally Posted by Finsplit
Which allegedly cool things are these? I can't think of a single legacy arc that forces you into the role of spectator at the climax the way the SSAs tend to do. In the legacy arcs, you're the one who takes down Countess Crey, Nemesis, Dr. Vazhilok, the Kronos Titan, Hro'Dtohz, and more. You crash the final ceremonies of the Freaklympics and shut them down, you raid the Revenant Hero Project's lab and capture the head scientist, you rescue Sam Wincott. What you DON'T do is stand around wringing your hands while NPCs have it out.
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The sad part is that the Terra Conspiracy and the Envoy of Shadow arcs are the earliest ones, at level 35, that even had a payoff of any kind*. You say Freaklympics, I say eight warehouses and offices in a row full of freaks with a slightly altered warehouse at the end. Look at Ubelmann the Unknown for a much more typical legacy arc: wow, time traveling nazis! How come all I get to do is beat up guys in this cave over and over?
*Correction, there is the Dr. V arc in the 15-19 range. A rare example of a legacy arc that I don't hate.
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Right. I was thinking's the same thing, because she did that before with Aurora Borealis, hence the whole evil Aurora echo in her mind and needing to go through this whole ritual thing to boost her powers to get rid of said echo. Darrin wade allegedly having her powers now doesn't mean she isn't already holed up in somebody else's mind waiting like a trojan horse. After all her powers were amplifies significantly.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
With her whole mind-riding thing, I'm kinda wondering if she hopped into Penny Yin's mind at the last minute, and will be "sleeping" in there for a while.
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bring me the bore worms!!!| the feeling i'm getting is that the devs are going for something sort of like a "one more day" style character reset for manticore |
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But to be somewhat serious; yes I'm disappointed by Manticore.
As others have said, there are more ways to stop a psychic than killing her. Could have punched her to knock her out, or like some have said, "poison gas arrow" to choke/put her to sleep.
Tazer'ed her, something
This wasn't X-Men 3 where Wolverine had to kill the Phoenix; this was a psychic losing control but yet still had enough control to not hurt Manticore and you and Penelope...
Batman...err..Manticore is always "2 steps" ahead of someone so why didn't he scan the area before the ritual, etc, etc....
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Why even go through a ritual to begin with? Why couldn't I (the player's toon) be put into an astral projection into Sister Psy's mind like in WWD # 3 and help defeat the evil Aurora part of Sis' mind?
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Same reason you have people making characters that outright kill criminals and get away with it.|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Fine, then you've shown that Manticore has about the same amount of background as anyone else without showing any pressing need for a "reset". Let's face it, if you hadn't been around for the wedding and no player had told you about it then you'd be hard pressed to even demonstrate in the game that Justin and Shalice are married. You sure can't show that Justin has somehow gone soft and that he needs some hardening up.
It's basically just "What if Manticore had to kill his wife to save the world? What a horrible choice to have to make! Let's do that!" It has nothing to do with expanding Manticore's character. Jack's legacy, such that it is, gets laid to rest and everyone's favorite teen grows up and moves into the vacated spot on the team. Frankly, I want to know why Manticore is free to participate in chapter six instead of sitting in jail on charges of attempted murder. |
Obviously, hero license is a license to kill criminals.
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The BrandX Collection
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We're out of Bore Worms, sir, but we DO have the cyber-turbo ferrets, and the truly-toxic-toads of Wrath. Will that do?
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Originally Posted by Venture
bring me the bore worms!!!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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It's not - otherwise, we wouldn't be sent to hunt down and arrest vigilantes in some of the missions |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Same reason you have people making characters that outright kill criminals and get away with it.
Obviously, hero license is a license to kill criminals. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I know. But I see the complaints and then think "plenty of people make such characters" still the vigilantes in CoH are suckie anyways. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's not - otherwise, we wouldn't be sent to hunt down and arrest vigilantes in some of the missions
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I want Spider-Man style vigilantes and not Punisher style. Which you can have if you choose by concept, just not by game mechanics.
Also, gaaah...so this whole SSA was to just rid the game of Jack Emmert's characters? If so, that's lame. Did he not give up the rights to these characters when he sold the game to NCSoft?
Was there something in the contract that said "Jack gets the rights to said characters at some point"?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Sister Psyche really can't be perma-dead otherwise there's nothing left to tie the pieces together.
Wade wanted to know about Numina's possesion ability as a target of the power swapping obelisk. With that not Viable, Sister Psyche is the target because of her mind riding. He'd have to use the obelisk to take that ability, so that he can take over Rularuu.
There hasn't been anyone introduced other than her that fits the bill.
...
This part of the SSA was kinda a head scratcher
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Don't really see it as "We're killing off Jack's characters!" so much as doing some much needed house-cleaning. From a storytelling point of view, a sundered Phalanx gives a lot more options than us all being a bunch of B-listers while they are apparently Earth's greatest heroes... who do very little.
Also, I want Penny's powers.
You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
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I just knew that I would love this new X-man story ar- I mean City of heroes SSA.
Seriously I was having X-men 3 flashbacks, they clearly get there inspiration somewhere, but fell-through with copying it.
Or maybe they wanted to make it so bad that it didn't look like a copy, rather a random fail story-line. Instead it's a failed copy failed storyline.
If they were copying Xmen 3, that explains a lot.
Film was utter guff. And I LIKED the first two!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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If that's the case why not kill off the least interresting characters?|
Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend
Don't really see it as "We're killing off Jack's characters!" so much as doing some much needed house-cleaning. From a storytelling point of view, a sundered Phalanx gives a lot more options than us all being a bunch of B-listers while they are apparently Earth's greatest heroes... who do very little.
Also, I want Penny's powers. |
Citadel? Let him die. He's really quite dull. Or does it go back to the early announcements of Who Will Die and everyone saying if Citadel died, no one would really miss him?
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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He's cinching his attempt to become Rulaaru.|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Since we're posting spoilers, does Wade ever make it clear in either the blue or red arc just why he has it in for Sister Psyche? Does he just want her power for himself or is he somehow tying up loose ends?
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
3) Inconsistency between the two stories: If in the hero mission, the hero kills Tryska (or whatever her name was) before the ritual, how is she still there for pseudo-Aurora to possess after the ritual in the villain version?
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Originally Posted by William_Valence
Sister Psyche really can't be perma-dead otherwise there's nothing left to tie the pieces together.
Wade wanted to know about Numina's possesion ability as a target of the power swapping obelisk. With that not Viable, Sister Psyche is the target because of her mind riding. He'd have to use the obelisk to take that ability, so that he can take over Rularuu. There hasn't been anyone introduced other than her that fits the bill. ... This part of the SSA was kinda a head scratcher |
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
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You could wipe out most of the Phalanx and most players wouldn't really have a feeling one way or the other. That's just kind of their problem, they're not so much characters as they are cardboard cutouts. We never interact with them, 95% of the time in game they're just tag along NPCs that spout 2-4 lines of dialogue. The other 5% they're TF contacts for missions that really don't involve them in any way, so they're just the figurehead saying "Go do this, it'd probably be bad if it isn't stopped". The SSAs are one of the few times we're really getting to see any kind of character development in game with them.
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Because Citadel isn't a psychic parasite and incredibly creepy character? Sister Psyche is. She's 80+ years old. She looks 30. She doesn't age when she's in someone else's body.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
If that's the case why not kill off the least interresting characters?
Citadel? Let him die. He's really quite dull. Or does it go back to the early announcements of Who Will Die and everyone saying if Citadel died, no one would really miss him? |
She's spent more of her life playing puppeteer than being herself.
I just don't find her interesting at all. Terrifying and really, really morally questionable, given the horrific violation of another human being involuntary mind control is, but not very interesting.
You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
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I've been sitting for a solid five minutes trying to think of what to say here, and I really don't know. I saw that AWESOME loading screen and thought, "Okay, THIS should be good..."
... and then... it wasn't.
I know a lot of folks think I'm a dev fangirl/apologist (pick one), but I agree with SlickRiptide and several other folks who've said that the SSAs should be worth the $15/$35 that we pay to play it. ($35 if you buy each installment, $15 if you sub for one month for arc 7 and play all of them in one go.)
And this just isn't. But what really gets me, I think, is that there was so much potential here that got misused, ignored, or just outright tossed out the window. I'm not going to post anything like "how *I* would have done it" until Part 7 comes out. I want to see the whole thing from beginning to end before I do it.
I also agree with EarthWyrm - they could have the most brilliant ending in the history of gaming/comics/etc, but if the leadup was less than stellar, it just opens the door for more backlash ("why wasn't the REST of the arc this good?!", or worse, no one's stuck around to see it).
Still, I did have an idea or two for a quick little video for this WWD, but the I-22 trailer takes precedence.
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