SSA #6 Story Discussion ** SPOILERS **


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue View Post
Greer informs you that Wade should have Psyche's powers now as a result of her death.
If Wade used the remaining pillar to take Psyche's powers, thats a bit of a big thing to stash in the Orenbegan tunnels without the Circle thinking "ooh our pillar's back!"

meh, I'm just gonna steamroll the arcs for drops from now on methinks



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue View Post

Greer informs you that Wade should have Psyche's powers now as a result of her death.
Aha, I did the redside. Didn't catch that on my go through.

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Posted

I've only run it the once and I was on a racing team so dind't get the whole story - but I was like "WTF" at the cutscene - and I won't deny it choked me a little to see it. I was totally gobsmacked and I must admit the Devs caught me on this one.

It was poignant at first sight - though I've not yet been able to critique the story . My first and immediate response was to have a big, surprised sad.

Now I've realised is they've just turned Manticore into a clone of Batman - a badass psychotic out to avenge his nearest and dearest. Playboy millionaire loses his next of kin - Devs, be very careful how you proceed because your critics won't be afraid to pan the subsequent story if it fails to pass muster. That's not a threat in any way it's just the reality of having so many passionate fans who've bought into the whole CoH thing.

Of course, the reverse of that is, who else could they have killed to give this the same impact? And frankly I cannot think of anyone. But huge Kudos to the Devs on making this happen to coincide with the Valentines event and of course the Wedding mission, making it extra poignant.

I'm very interested in seeing how this pans out - and a little sad. But I guess the Calvin Scott TF gets back into the main game now.



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Posted

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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm View Post
If the SSAs were a book, this would have been the chapter where I threw it across the room and went to Amazon to write a one-star review. As I was playing it, particularly the last mission, I kept thinking, "There's no way anyone could be dumb enough to do this." But I had no choice. If I wanted to get to the end of the story, I had to be dumb. So I bounced around that ritual room, looking for any other option, anything that could give me a clue about what I needed to do. There's an assassin? Let them come. I was sent in here to escort and protect an important hero. An assassin who sits around and does nothing isn't a very good assassin, after all.

But my hero, my so-called "protagonist" that Darrin Wade is supposedly afraid of, left his post and wandered back through a freaking Oranbega map to fight an assassin who's apparently as flummoxed by Oranbega portals as my dog is by glass doors.

Penny didn't even come with. She hung around by the ritual altar, making me think, "Okay, maybe that's the safeguard." Turns out, not so much, and she may have even been glitched for me. Whatever.

The problem is, my "hero" left his charge and went off to do something that wasn't needed, and as a result wasn't present to help actually do something about the real threat.

That's not just dumb. That's unforgiveably dumb. Based on what I'm seeing in this arc, I'm not a threat to Wade. I'm somebody who, when the final battle comes, Wade will distract with Youtube videos of kittens, then feed a poisoned cupcake to. I have, to this point, done basically everything he wanted me to do, when he wanted me to do it.

I leveled this character from 1-50 in the Rogue Isles, then spent several years thereafter still running around the Isles waiting for a chance to be redeemed. After finally making the transition to Paragon City and "hero" status as soon as it was possible to do so, I feel pretty strongly that in this arc I have done more to advance the cause of villainy than I did the entire time the character was under Recluse's thumb.

I was able to forgive a lot of the storytelling conceits in the earlier portions of the arc. The entire last mission, though, was ridiculous and insulting. And I don't think it would have taken a lot to salvage it, is the sad thing. What's needed is an intelligent motivation to do what was done. So, for example:

Rather than having to escort Psyche through not one but TWO entire Oranbega maps, you learn that she's tried to go it alone, for fear of what the ritual might do to everyone around her, and that she's currently lost inside Oranbega. You (and Penny, sure) have to go in and find her, fight off some sort of impressive NPC and its minions, and help her the last little way to the ritual chamber. Once you're there, another attack on her enters the caverns, and you can't stay with her because if the attackers make their way into the ritual chamber, everything could be compromised. As much as you hate to do so, and knowing that it's risky, you go back to hold the line, leaving Penny and some number of other guardians you called in to help behind. I mean, the entire FP got to Synapse's aid in 60 seconds at the end of the first villain SSA, so it can't be THAT hard.

Or something to that effect. There are WAYS it could have worked, or at least, worked better.

It's possible that we'll get some dialogue in SSA7 to the effect of, "We're sorry we had to deceive you, [charactername], but we suspected what Wade was up to and had to have me shooting Shalice appear to be the only option, and you're just too competent in general for that to happen if you're around." I kinda doubt it, though, and being made to look dumb by Manti isn't markedly better than being made to look dumb by Wade. At least there, though, it's not me being a puppet of the villain.

I don't agree with the writing philosophy that says, "If you wow them in the third act, all is forgiven." Because sometimes, the things that come before the third act are bad enough that the reader/viewer isn't there to be wowed. I'll stick around and play the finale for the reward, but psychologically and emotionally, I've checked out. Which, to me, is a shame.

I hate writing this kind of review. But the more I've reflected on the hero arc, the angrier I've gotten at just how dumb my incarnate-level character has to be, for it to work. If I'm doing the right thing, and bad things happen that I couldn't foresee, okay. But given that Wade's monologue in the last episode had to do with Psyche being next, why in the world would I not see this coming?
This to me is a perfect review of the whole thing, and really sums up how I feel also.


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Posted

I read this thread because I've just given up on these arcs, and I don't considering anything inside them to be "spoiled." I play the arcs for the unique maps and experiences, and not for the story, which I've given up on.

For me, the high point of this arc installment will be the removal of SP.


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Posted

I'm just a little disappointed that this came right after the fall of one of the nation's greatest heroes, THE Statesman. Hardly anything in the arc actually dealt with his demise. Life just went on for everyone else as we blissfully ignore the fact he died not too long ago. I only ran this as a villain, but you'd think that your character's street cred would soar, considering A. you're at the scene of the crime, and B. I doubt Darrin Wade came out to the public and said "I did it! I killed him!"

I was kind of hoping this arc would go in a different direction, with the Phalanx hunting your villain down to bring them to justice, all sorts of common villains flocking to you to bank on your status and suck up to you, and Recluse trying to bring you in for questioning. All the while you're trying to seek vengeance against Wade and Wade's using the chaos to continue with his plans. But this story just kind of fell flat. It was all about you gaining a new minion that promises they won't backstab you, and fighting some random villains as I think I lured Psyche into a trap? I didn't even really know, considering you don't bump into her at all until the very end, when she's already trapped.


 

Posted

Since switching bodies is pretty much Psyche's "thing", I'm guessing she still exists in some form. It would be funny if she was actually mind-riding inside your character without you knowing it. "Lately, you find yourself strangely attracted to Manticore, for reasons you can't explain..."


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
It's not a question of whether or not you can handwave it. You always can. It's a question of whether or not you need to.
I'm not clear on what you think needs to be handwaved here. Wade wasn't being omniscient. He was simply taking a precaution so logical that its omission would have been questionable.


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Posted

While it doesnt have anything to do with the writing i think the game mechanics use is below par. How does this take a month to make when other companies churn out weekly content with less staff and have more innovative missions.

I had this issue with the First Ward as well where the only thing remotely cool was when you summon the ghost council.


 

Posted

Ok I am missing something, I did run all the arcs when they came out, and with a little bit of Aurora still being in Sister Psyche, why didn't they just try to put that little bit back in Aurora? Aurora is still around isn't she, it's not like she died or anything I don't get it? Also what will happen to Aurora it's not like having a piece of her still inside Psyche affected her before. Seriously am I missing something, did something bad happen to Aurora too, like she died and we just don't know about it, or did she die in one of the SSAs and I am just not remembering it?


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Posted

1. I have to agree with others that thought the gameplay itself seemed to be too simplified and repetitive, and appeared to be mostly busy work, not integrated into the actual story.

2. When people complained that Paragon "spoiled" the entire SSA arc since we now knew "who would die" I did point out that someone else already died, and the "who" in "who will die" didn't have to be singular. I suspected with two chapters to go there would be at least another tragic death, and so I was a little suspicious. Even moreso because of the "does the unthinkable" thing. Whereas I thought the Statesman reveal might have had some higher purpose to building momentum for the arc, honestly I thought that sort of thing gave away the only thing this chapter was meant to do. That's actually the sort of thing you say when there's a twist to it that isn't expected, so Manticore's actions might be anticipated, but the twist creates the surprise. There's no such twist here, and no additional details beyond the spoiler.

3. Given the structure of how SSA6 ends, I'm concerned there's no way SSA7 can be long enough or involved enough to wrap this all up satisfactorilly. So I believe the entire arc might be one of those to be continued things, and I don't think that was the best idea for the first purchasable arc. If the entire arc was really just a lead-in to make dramatic changes elsewhere, and the real story continues in other places, something about that seems wrong to me. *Especially* when the gameplay was pretty simplistic in some areas, which makes the story itself all the more important as the selling point of the storyline.

4. I want Penny's powersets.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Doc_Reverend View Post
Don't really see it as "We're killing off Jack's characters!" so much as doing some much needed house-cleaning. From a storytelling point of view, a sundered Phalanx gives a lot more options than us all being a bunch of B-listers while they are apparently Earth's greatest heroes... who do very little.
I'm guessing the Devs targeted Statesman and Psyche because they were the two "BEST IN ALL THE UNIVERSE" at being invulnerable and being telepathic. It just so happens that they are Emmert's creations, and it probably says something about Emmert that he made these two Mary Sues. But I'm guessing it's because how he made them than the fact that he made them which made them prime targets.

Because if the player is the star of the story and winds up being the BEST IN THE UNIVERSE, then those two could not have survived.


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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane View Post
That goes against everything this game presents about powers. When you faceplant, toggles, clicks, even auto powers, stop working.

More to the point, I would be iffy on killing her just due to the fact she's connected to every mind in Paragon. The psychic backlash her mind creates in her deaththrows would be liable to kill them all anyways. I would be even more likely to attempt to subdue her.
Its implied that she's keeping the psychic bomb in check, disabling her in any way can set off the bomb before her powers fail. The game mechanical objection isn't really valid in this case, but it also doesn't contradict how powers work in this game. I can construct a critter that does exactly what people are concerned Sister Psyche would do in this circumstance.

Some already do have analogous effects. Some critters have "death" triggered powers: Carnival of Shadows have their endurance draining psychic scream for example, which could be directly analogous to what is happening to Sister Psyche. Then there are powers that can suppress their own crash, but only so long as the player can cycle them. Rage, for example, has a crash that a component of it can be suppressed indefinitely, but if you stop cycling rage the crash then becomes inevitable - unless you die. If the psychic bomb was a form of crash, its entirely within the parameters of the game mechanics for Sister Psyche to be able to suppress that crash until she became unconscious or ran out of endurance, whereupon the crash would occur unless she was dead.


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Posted

Yeah given this kind of set up it feels a lot less like Wade is just going to get punched out at the end of this so much as he's set up to be one of the major big bads ala Emperor Cole. Only you know, not as long and drawn out and requiring near a half dozen trials to get rid of.

I could see them bringing back Psyche in some form down the line. She definitely wasn't accepting of her death like Statesman was. And she was just mind screaming into several hundred's of thousands if not millions of people's heads, I think it'd be interesting if they play that as an element later on.

And yes, Penny's powers were pretty rad. Was her pet just one of the void storms from the Minds of Mayhem trial?


 

Posted

From a villain's perspective...

Is it possible that Psyche put a piece of herself inside the piece of Aurora that was in her mind, and is planning on taking over the Aurora that is now in control of Tyrka?


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Posted

Quote:
I'm not clear on what you think needs to be handwaved here. Wade wasn't being omniscient. He was simply taking a precaution so logical that its omission would have been questionable.
In order for this to be the case, there needs to be one and only one possible move for the heroes to make at this juncture, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

Quote:
I'm guessing the Devs targeted Statesman and Psyche because they were the two "BEST IN ALL THE UNIVERSE" at being invulnerable and being telepathic. It just so happens that they are Emmert's creations, and it probably says something about Emmert that he made these two Mary Sues.
I wouldn't call either character a Mary Sue, and for that matter Sister Psyche was never portrayed as being "best telepath EVAH". Hell, right from the git-go we were told Penny Yin was more powerful.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCarrier View Post
Since switching bodies is pretty much Psyche's "thing", I'm guessing she still exists in some form. It would be funny if she was actually mind-riding inside your character without you knowing it. "Lately, you find yourself strangely attracted to Manticore, for reasons you can't explain..."

Hahaha, that would be.....disturbing...to say the least.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post

I wouldn't call either character a Mary Sue, and for that matter Sister Psyche was never portrayed as being "best telepath EVAH". Hell, right from the git-go we were told Penny Yin was more powerful.
What? Yes she has. There's repeated instances of her being referred to as the strongest psychic in the world, both in game and out. I do agree though, Psyche has not been portrayed as a Mary Sue, but she has been called the strongest several times.


 

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Originally Posted by SuperOz View Post
Nah. Again, we're theorising that he did with a little backup from his in-story dialog. But he has the power of Plot, pure and simple. The great saying of 'no plan survives contact with the enemy' goes right out the window here, because since Part 1, Wade hasn't put a foot wrong.

Consider that a moment. His timing has been perfect. His plans flawless, unable to be predicted by anyone or prevented similarly. When you write fiction, you can do that. There's noone else involved that can disrupt that.
You don't know that. The same objection was leveled on the Joker in The Dark Knight: his plans seem to require omniscience. But actually, few people bothered to ask what would have happened if things *hadn't* gone according to the plan. The Joker absolutely *loves* chaos: if things had not gone to plan, he would have just changed his plan so that it did. What if he wasn't arrested and taken to the police station? Then he would have gone there and surrendered. He didn't actually have to *count* on being arrested: there were lots of ways he could have gotten there fully under his control. The fact that he got arrested was itself probably a glitch in his plan.

Same with Wade. Its not just possible but likely that his plan involves dozens or hundreds of contingencies mapped out over years, and for every one we see there's dozens that are just sitting around unused because it didn't go that way. That's what makes a good planner: someone who anticipates every possible alternative and creates a contingency for it. So that no matter what happens, it looks like that was what was anticipated all along.

Jeez I do that for my job and the stakes aren't nearly as high for me as "cosmic level superpowers." If that was the payoff at the end of any of my projects, I would have more contingencies than Wade.

See also: magician's force.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geratron View Post
From a villain's perspective...
From a hero's perspective... Who is Tyrka?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion View Post
Hahaha, that would be.....disturbing...to say the least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCarrier View Post
Since switching bodies is pretty much Psyche's "thing", I'm guessing she still exists in some form. It would be funny if she was actually mind-riding inside your character without you knowing it. "Lately, you find yourself strangely attracted to Manticore, for reasons you can't explain..."
Or she's inside Aurora inside Tyrka.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Ogi View Post
From a hero's perspective... Who is Tyrka?
She was the contact for Part 4. She's also the body the splinter part of Aurora takes over at the end of Part 6.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
In order for this to be the case, there needs to be one and only one possible move for the heroes to make at this juncture, and that doesn't seem to be the case.
I think options were pretty narrow at that point. If the ritual wasn't the only option it was certainly the best, and it would absolutely make sense to take it into account.


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Posted

Quote:
What? Yes she has. There's repeated instances of her being referred to as the strongest psychic in the world, both in game and out.
I can't think of a single one in-game. Out of the game her bio says she's "the most gifted psychic in Paragon City, and possibly the entire planet" and "the tremendous scope of her mental powers is far beyond that of any hero, past or present" but that's directly contradicted by Agent G at the end of the Faultline arc. He names both the Clockwork King and Penny as being more powerful.

Quote:
Same with Wade. Its not just possible but likely that his plan involves dozens or hundreds of contingencies mapped out over years, and for every one we see there's dozens that are just sitting around unused because it didn't go that way.
Yeah, not buying it.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture View Post
In order for this to be the case, there needs to be one and only one possible move for the heroes to make at this juncture, and that doesn't seem to be the case.



I wouldn't call either character a Mary Sue, and for that matter Sister Psyche was never portrayed as being "best telepath EVAH". Hell, right from the git-go we were told Penny Yin was more powerful.
If anything, Penelope is the Mary Sue - Most powerful, special relationship with existing characters, focal point for much of the Praetorian stuff. She's been simultaneously put on a pedestal and shoved down our throats since the moment she showed up.