SSA #6 Story Discussion ** SPOILERS **

In his defense, English probably isn't Akarist's first language.


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I'm wary of these kind of solutions because it seems less a fix and more of a rewrite. Could it work? Maybe. I don't really think it's any better or worse than what we got. It might solve a problem but introduce another one.

I don't consider it a rewrite because I'm not changing anything of consequence. The only reason we fight CoT in the final mission is because we're in a CoT cave. That's really not part of the plot, it's a gameplay element. The plot, when you boil it down to its points is: Learn about ritual -> Get specifics on ritual -> Perform ritual. The person you learn about the ritual from is meaningful - Vanessa is a powerful psychic. The person you get the specifics on the ritual from is also important - Akharist is a prominent Circle mage. But the specific NPCs populating the instances themselves really aren't terribly relevant to the plot.

Let me put it this way - if I swapped Malta and the Nemesis army, such that Nemesis troops raid DeVore's loft and Malta attack Portal Corp, would any part of the actual plot be affected? Would it matter? These guys are really just thrown in as "enemy group A" and "enemy group B." And, really, so are the Circle. They're there because that's where they live. But swap them for anything else and the plot doesn't change.

Actually, this wouldn't be the first time this has happened. I have previously raided 5th Column bases which had been taken over by the Freakshow, raided abandoned buildings that the lost had settled in and in the Library of Souls, taken the soul of Ashton Fletcher through an old cave that had become infested with the Devouring Earth for reasons completely irrelevant to the plot. In fact, Power Loyalists have a mission where they must go to a laboratory and retrieve research results. But because walking into an instance, speaking with an NPC and leaving would be boring, the plot has us dupe the resistance into attacking the lab so we can save it, turning an information handover mission into a combat mission, instead.

I'm not trying to change the plot so that something else happens. I'm trying to change the setting ever so slightly in order to preserve the plot exactly as it is. I honestly don't consider this a rewrite. I'm not changing things so Sister Psyche survives or anything.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I don't mean it as a dig, and I apologize if I'm coming across as pugnacious. And certainly, moreso than most arcs, I agree that the enemies don't matter, because the fights struck me as filler. What I was saying is that the presence of Rikti in Orenbaga, while not without precedent, would add more complication to the story. All else being equal, I think it would serve to complicate rather than streamline. And the usual caveats apply, that a lot depends on execution and the explanations offered and personal opinion of the player.

That is the unfortunate impression Matt Miller's comments left with me. Statesman (and it looks like Sister Psyche as well!) got the axe primarily because the Devs had wanted to do it for a long, long time, and finally things lined up to accomplish those ends.

Even so, I don't think that would have been bothersome in the final count except that the whole affair seemed so half-baked storywise; you know the drill about Walking Into The Obvious Trap(tm) and the Smiling Corpse who "welcomed his Death" because he was "seeking peace after decades of crime-fighting." On just what was presented, Statesman looked bad from any number of angles: an idiot for walking into the trap, a jerk who smiles when he is murdered by the same guy who just murdered his daughter, etc., etc. Sam sees this as deliberate "humiliation." I don't know if I would go that far, knowing as little as I do about the Devs, but it certainly rises to the level of Reckless Disregard for how the audience would perceive it. It was bad product, and given the build-up and hype, it was inconceivable to me that the story would be that awful when presented.

Another thought occurs to me: I have read the extensive backstory on the CoH site about Statesman's exploits and the virtues he purported to hold out, and I read the "Smoke and Mirrors" arc by Troy Hickman in the comics when they arrived at my door. The depiction of Statesman in those sources is at complete odds with the depiction of Statesman in other issues of the comic. Statesman solely in the game is not a lot to go on.

Most folks apparently have not read the CoH website background nor "Smoke and Mirrors." Their association with Statesman is Statesman=Jack, one of the uglier versions of Statesman presented or the not-much characterization of just the game. Indeed, there is a lot to be picked up on Historic markers and such that most folks have likely never seen.

So I realize that the reason that Statesman getting the pathetic send-off that he did (whether it was malice or just wretched writing; I cannot say) bothered me because I liked the Hickman Statesman, who seemed to be the guy I had read about on the website. If I had not seen those sources, it likely would have been "Big Whoop," as many appear to feel about it.

But let me say something else: I would be just as exercised if, should Matt Miller ever depart, somebody came after him and greased Positron in the same half-baked fashion just to be rid of him. Whether or not that would constitute deliberate humiliation would remain to be seen, but at least a noble and heroic death would be in order... not the sorry fate of Statesman.

Agreed. And that is the fault of the writing and/or execution of the craft.

I agree with you both in that the execution of the story was done poorly, especially considering the likely motivation behind the results.
And that's all I was saying. I don't personally have any issue with them doing it for whatever reason that made them decide to do it... But whatever their reasons, the execution of it should be as well done as if the reasons behind it were completely different.
Done cheaply? Quite possibly.
Petty? I don't think so.
However, the reasons likely being what they are and not done so well? Yeah, that's going to come off even worse for some. I get that! And I'd, personally, have worked to avoid that in the execution of the story/writing.

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I've had a chance to reflect on this, and I think this is a small change that would go a really long way towards getting everyone on the same page.The forums are, for better or for worse, a place where we come to discuss the game. It seems that theories have a way of reinforcing themselves as they are bandied back and forth until we forget what was actually in the game. "What has gone before" is as much a staple of the superhero genre as unstable molecules. This sounds like a really easy addition that would pay considerable dividends.

No offence taken, no worries And you're correct in the sense that having Oranbegan people in Oranbega is technically less complex than having Oranbegan foreigners in Oranbege. However, look at what the arc up to that point has set up as the status quo - filler enemy groups. We have the Carnival who have only a tangential link to the plot, we have Malta who have no link to the plot, we have the Nemesis Army who have no link to the plot. It's pretty obvious the arc is throwing just whatever at us. Within this setting, it seems to me like throwing what at first seems like "whatever" at the player, but is later revealed to actually have been deliberately chosen might seem actually more logical than what you'd logically expect to find in Oranbega.

Obviously, that's just the opinion of one guy who likes explanations, and it's really just one way to go about it. Most crucially, I need a reason for why the Circle of Thorns didn't discover Wade's trap if they were evidently heavily present at the ritual site. NOT having CoT present at the ritual sight seems like the easiest solution.

I don't see it so much as a deliberate humiliation against the character of the Statesman or against Jack Emmert's person so much as I see it as wanton disregard for an iconic character bred from a wanton disregard for his creator. The Statesman deserved better. If he HAD to die, he deserved to go down swinging, and he deserved his death to have meaning. The way he died, he was essentially a log we tossed into the fireplace for no reason other than to power the engine of the story along. That's not how you kill THE iconic hero of an entire fictional universe whose face is on quite literally every bit of promotional material for the game.

That, really, is why it comes off as mean-spirited to me. It's like development team couldn't stand the thought of somebody else's work getting top billing in "their" game. And this, really, is one of the biggest things that turn me off an established work's future instalments - when you get a bunch of new people in charge, or a bunch of the old people decide that what the product should all of a sudden be something completely different from what it used to be. If I didn't like what it was, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. Losing what I liked about it, to be replaced with a ton of stuff I don't like nearly as much can kill a franchise for me. And Matt Miller's seeming inability to work with established artwork, story and characters, to the point of asking what kind of boss he'd be if he forced his team to work on the existing game instead of replacing everything with their own creations is just galling. What kind of boss would you be? A GOOD boss who cares about the consistency and integrity of his product, god damn it!

I'm the kind of person who likes specific works, not specific creators. I have a HUGE playlist of music at home and I have many favourite songs, but I have no favourite artists or favourite albums. I've never been interested in watching a movie because of who directed it or a game because of who wrote it. Dragon Age 2 was lesson enough to that effect. I am, as such, primarily interested in City of Heroes and what it offers me, rather than the divergent "vision" of whoever's in charge at that particular time. Wasn't that one of our primary beefs with Jack Emmert? His vision? "Old stuff is old" is not a good development policy.

It's a basic rule of game game design and storytelling that if you do a good job, people tend to be a LOT more forgiving about your eventual creation's inevitable flaws, often growing to accept them as part of its charm. For instance, I REALLY like the World Wide Red story arc because of the general story it tells, and I'm willing to overlook the often waste-of-time missions, the repetitive Malta encounters and the HIDEOUS Giant Monster ambush. I'm much less likely to be nit-picky, because it's just a well-imagined story that someone put a lot of effort into having make sense.

By contrast, when a story or a game is done badly, people will be naturally predisposed to criticise and nit-pick it. Because when we don't like something, a lot of us are actually motivated to find newer and better reasons to hate it.

When it comes to the SSAs, people have offered a lot of hand-wave, fan-made excuses for the various gaping plot holes. If I actually liked the arcs, I might be predisposed to accept those explanations as reinforcing my satisfaction. Being that I don't like the SSAs in the slightest, I'm much more inclined to reject them as counter to my dissatisfaction. It's probably irrational, probably not very moral, but that's just how I feel. I can excuse shoddy company politics if they at least produce a good end product, but when it seems like the end product sucks BECAUSE of shoddy company politics, that makes me angry.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Slow down there son. Nemesis has an intrinsic link to the plot of Rularuu and the Shadow Shard. Nemesis is massing an army in the Shard and had the manufacturing facilities and platoons there to prove it. Anything that impacts Rularuu impacts the Shard, and the Shard is apparently his central operations point currently.
Who knows what happens there when Darrin summons Rularuu and possesses him. Not every major boss in the Shard is part of Rularuu either.

We shall see...

(Shrug) The last thing that he experienced was the ghost of his dead wife coming down from heaven and letting him know that the fight can continue without him. People can pooh-pooh and blah de blah against that with their "Oh, but he's fought psychics before" arguments, etc, etc, but the fact of the matter is, it's all made up anyway, so if the writers want to assert that Marcus -knows- that it's the spirit of his dead wife, because they're soulmates or whatever, I can roll with that.

Alternate explanation: His body, including his facial muscles, twisted and contorted randomly as Wade burned his soul out of his body, and it just happens, through ironic happenstance, that he died with what looks like a peaceful expression on his face.

Really, though, I think it's more just a narrative salve to soften the blow of the character's death. "Yeah, he's dead, but he's reunited with his wife, and he's in a better place now, so it's up to you to carry on where he left off."