SSA #6 Story Discussion ** SPOILERS **
By
15bribri15,
Posted on: 2012-02-21 05:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I really really hope that's not the reason, and it's just a coincidence. Because if that is the reason, it comes across as very petty, and frankly I thought they were better than that.
| As for "why", it's that Statesman and Sister Psyche were both personal characters of Jack Emmert |
Psyche was supposed to be the world's greatest psychic (despite Penny also called the world's greatest psychic). States was the world's most invulnerable hero. They are in the way of the players being the greatest heroes of the CoH universe story. They had to go, otherwise Paragon would always call them first instead of your character whenever there was a crisis.
Of course, this puts a bull's eye on Penny's and Lady Grey's back because of the in-game hyping of how cosmologically powerful they're supposed to be (even though the actual in-game situations constantly belie that fact).
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And just what sort of in-game situations would be doing THAT, hmmmm?|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Of course, this puts a bull's eye on Penny's and Lady Grey's back because of the in-game hyping of how cosmologically powerful they're supposed to be (even though the actual in-game situations constantly belie that fact).
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"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
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Actually, IIRC, Penny was referred to as the most POWERFUL psychic. Not the same thing as the "greatest".|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Psyche was supposed to be the world's greatest psychic (despite Penny also called the world's greatest psychic). States was the world's most invulnerable hero.
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Greatness is a social judgement.
Power is something that can be quantified.
Think "destroy a building by dropping a comet on it" (Young, untutored, unexperienced Penny) vs "controlled demolition" (Psyche).
Both mostly accomplish the same thing.
One would DEFINITELY result in a larger energy release than the other.
And one would likely have all sorts of nasty collateral effects that might not be so desirable.
From the end of the PCM arc from Agent G:
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| To overcome the backlash, you'd need someone with more psychic power than Sister Psyche. Someone with the psychic power on the order of the Clockwork King... Or Penelope Yin. |
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| The PsychoChronoMetron must be destroyed, permanently. The only way to do it is by having an immensely powerful psychic use the PCM on itself, so that it can't work again. To do that, you'll need to contact one of the most powerful, albeit untrained, psychics on Earth: Penelope Yin. However, this will not be easy for 3 reasons: Arbiter Sands, Nocturne the Night Widow, and Captain Castillo all escaped custody during their transfer to Zigursky Penitentiary. I fear they're going to try and intercept you. Tell me when you're ready and I'll have a chopper waiting to take you to Yin's market to meet with Penelope. And be careful. You might want to get more help, if you haven't already. |
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So we can expect Penny and Lady Grey to die soon, as they're standing in the way of the player being the greatest?|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Psyche was supposed to be the world's greatest psychic (despite Penny also called the world's greatest psychic). States was the world's most invulnerable hero. They are in the way of the players being the greatest heroes of the CoH universe story. They had to go, otherwise Paragon would always call them first instead of your character whenever there was a crisis.
Of course, this puts a bull's eye on Penny's and Lady Grey's back because of the in-game hyping of how cosmologically powerful they're supposed to be (even though the actual in-game situations constantly belie that fact). |
I don't think that seems like a reason to kill them off.
The Jack characters sounds more plausible and a sad move to have been made if that was the reason.
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Agreed, I hope that's not the reason. It's just an awfully big coincidence.
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Originally Posted by Codewalker
I really really hope that's not the reason, and it's just a coincidence. Because if that is the reason, it comes across as very petty, and frankly I thought they were better than that.
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
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from SSA6, her bio says she's one of the most powerful psychics in the world, as does part of Agent G's text you quoted, while also saying Yin's and CK's psychic powers are greater than Sister Psyche's...|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Actually, IIRC, Penny was referred to as the most POWERFUL psychic. Not the same thing as the "greatest".
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Sister Psyche's bio implies her abilities are the best to ever exist.
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| Even in her childhood, it was obvious that Sister Psyche was blessed. The tremendous scope of her mental powers was far beyond that of any hero, past or present. |
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The way I read it is that Penny has more raw potential, but SP has more experience using her powers and more versatility.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
from SSA6, her bio says she's one of the most powerful psychics in the world, as does part of Agent G's text you quoted, while also saying Yin's and CK's psychic powers are greater than Sister Psyche's...
Sister Psyche's bio implies her abilities are the best to ever exist. so uh...yay inconsistency? |
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Note the use of past tense: When her powers first manifested, Psyche was greater than any other psychic up to that point. Penny and CK weren't around yet.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Sister Psyche's bio implies her abilities are the best to ever exist.
"Even in her childhood, it was obvious that Sister Psyche was blessed. The tremendous scope of her mental powers was far beyond that of any hero, past or present. " so uh...yay inconsistency? |
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Considering that Shalice apparently came close to destroying the human race (or at least mass murdering everyone in Paragon City) I think that we need to be proactive and put Penny down now before she gets a chance to be put into a similar position.
Really, if I was running the FBSA I'd be corralling all of the known psychics and fixing neutralization collars onto them.
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" Veterans of the game know that the character [Statesman] was the namesake of Jack Emmert, who was the lead designer who originally launched City of Heroes in 2004. Jack posted as Statesman in the forums, came up with his backstory, and was instrumental in the character becoming the original poster-boy for the game's marketing. Killing off the character meant a lot of things to a lot of people, but for me it was the ultimate declaration that City of Heroes has grown up and left the nest from which it was born." -- Matt Miller, Intrepid Informer Issue 17.|
Originally Posted by Codewalker
I really really hope that's not the reason, and it's just a coincidence. Because if that is the reason, it comes across as very petty, and frankly I thought they were better than that.
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Draw what conclusions from it that you will.
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That's...legitimately disappointing. It's hard to view that in a good light.
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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
" Veterans of the game know that the character [Statesman] was the namesake of Jack Emmert, who was the lead designer who originally launched City of Heroes in 2004. Jack posted as Statesman in the forums, came up with his backstory, and was instrumental in the character becoming the original poster-boy for the game's marketing. Killing off the character meant a lot of things to a lot of people, but for me it was the ultimate declaration that City of Heroes has grown up and left the nest from which it was born." -- Matt Miller, Intrepid Informer Issue 17.
Draw what conclusions from it that you will. |
In Camazotz all are equal. Everybody is the same as everybody else.
I wonder how Mr. and Mrs. Sean Fish feel about SSA 1-6?
(Manticore is Sean Fish's creation; he was the original "story guy". Mrs. Fish played the role of Shalice during the big Wedding Event a few years back, having, as I recall, just recently married Sean or gotten engaged to him at least, giving the proceedings a certain real life poignancy.)
With War Witch now the producer on the game, the next SSA should feature the death of Positron, to further demonstrate how "City of Heroes has grown up and left the nest from which it was born".
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Ooooh...now see that can be a new story arc!|
Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Considering that Shalice apparently came close to destroying the human race (or at least mass murdering everyone in Paragon City) I think that we need to be proactive and put Penny down now before she gets a chance to be put into a similar position.
Really, if I was running the FBSA I'd be corralling all of the known psychics and fixing neutralization collars onto them. |
Heroes called in to protect you from all the metas who want to kill you for trying to strip them of their natural abilities all because you're afraid of what they may do.
Then to make it interresting, the heroes could have the option of turning on you when they realize why you're in need of protecting! Or if it happens during the fight, the villains can state their case and they can have the heroes have the choice to abandon you.
And villains! Well they just get the chance to kill you!
Hmmm...that sort of story arc might go over a bit more with the forums goers than the current SSA seems to just for having all those choices.
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Sounds like "We killed off Jack's characters because they were Jack's characters" to me.
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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
" Veterans of the game know that the character [Statesman] was the namesake of Jack Emmert, who was the lead designer who originally launched City of Heroes in 2004. Jack posted as Statesman in the forums, came up with his backstory, and was instrumental in the character becoming the original poster-boy for the game's marketing. Killing off the character meant a lot of things to a lot of people, but for me it was the ultimate declaration that City of Heroes has grown up and left the nest from which it was born." -- Matt Miller, Intrepid Informer Issue 17.
Draw what conclusions from it that you will. |
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I'm honestly curious if Paragon's been hearing from Cryptic's legal department.
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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
" Veterans of the game know that the character [Statesman] was the namesake of Jack Emmert, who was the lead designer who originally launched City of Heroes in 2004. Jack posted as Statesman in the forums, came up with his backstory, and was instrumental in the character becoming the original poster-boy for the game's marketing. Killing off the character meant a lot of things to a lot of people, but for me it was the ultimate declaration that City of Heroes has grown up and left the nest from which it was born." -- Matt Miller, Intrepid Informer Issue 17.
Draw what conclusions from it that you will. |
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Let me get this straight. The single positive thing to come out of the SSAs - the mission to save Sister Psyche's mind - is rendered moot when she dies anyway?
*edit*
And, yeah, killing off the Statesman because Jack Emmert made him is just petty. To be perfectly honest, a lot of what's been happening lately is making me miss Jack.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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saving someone only for them to die later is just another trope 
I personally see nothing wrong with it's execution here.
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Out of curiosity, which one?
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
saving someone only for them to die later is just another trope
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But Positron's still the Lead Developer - he hasn't left |
Originally Posted by Creole Ned
With War Witch now the producer on the game, the next SSA should feature the death of Positron, to further demonstrate how "City of Heroes has grown up and left the nest from which it was born".
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Shooting from the hip, probably referring to Shaggy Dog Story or Shoot the Shaggy Dog.
| Out of curiosity, which one? |
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No, Jack signed away all of his rights, whatever they might have been, when he incorporated the character(s) into City of Heroes. If you read Matt's other interviews, it's mentioned that the discussion about killing Statesman had come up in the past but had been decided against due to the fallout and/or difficulty of doing it properly.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
I'm honestly curious if Paragon's been hearing from Cryptic's legal department.
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I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I've seen one ex-CoH developer comment on Facebook that people in Paragon Studios had wanted to kill him for a long time.
The difference now is the cut-scene technology, the focus on monthly stories, and a new focus designed to make the player heroes be the pre-eminent heroes. From that latter standpoint, it makes some sense to kill Statesman and Sister Psyche, as they represent god-like power. If they're gone, then there's no deus-ex-machina waiting in the background to save the day. Well, except for the fact that Penelope Yin is stepping into Sister Psyche's shoes and is even more god-like in her potential, apparently. :-|
No, in the end it pretty much just comes down to the fact that the devs themselves were just as ambivalent about Jack as many players have been.
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Thanks, for once your trope-mongering comes to be useful.|
Originally Posted by Venture
Shooting from the hip, probably referring to Shaggy Dog Story or Shoot the Shaggy Dog.
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Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
No, in the end it pretty much just comes down to the fact that the devs themselves were just as ambivalent about Jack as many players have been.
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The problem for me is that the Devs should have been the ones doing the plausible explanations. As you note, "we don't know."
Was Statesman 1) grieving 2) over-confident 3) complacent or 4) a total idiot? We don't know. We can infer what we will, for good or ill, but the Devs have simply left the door open and departed.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. Some folks will, as you have, fill in the blanks so that the story does not shut down the suspension of disbelief. Others will point out the holes and cry foul over any number of problems the holes raise. Both sides are "right" in their reaction.
For me, it just never comes to this when a piece is well-written.
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