Han shot. Period. Mmmkay?
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2012-02-10 19:52 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
What is this I don't even @ Star Wars 'fans' (read fanatics)
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Really? He used Blade Runner as an example? I still prefere the original theatrical release of Blade Runner the best.
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Greedo did not shoot first. Period. End of discussion.
This scene was a classic spaghetti western saloon shoot out. The bad guy made a move for his gun and the good guy got his shot off first. The bad guy dies without firing a shot.
Lucas is full of manure to claim otherwise.
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So, first, Han shoots, then Greedo dies. Or, to put it more succinctly: Han shot first.|
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
Some people erroneously state that Han shot first, but that's wrong; saying Han shot first implies that Greedo shot second, but Greedo never got a shot off because he was deaders.
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If that were true, Han wouldn't have had to do that weird neck jig when they changed it. Does Lucas really think he's fooling anyone?
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
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The man already said he was taking his ball and going home because criticism hurts his feelings. Is anyone even buying the **** he's selling anymore?
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Unfortunately, he keeps slinging it because he prints his own money.
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Originally Posted by Veritech
The man already said he was taking his ball and going home because criticism hurts his feelings. Is anyone even buying the **** he's selling anymore?
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Because, it's not like we have over 20 years worth of TV screenings, videos, even the cruddy quality DVD release that proves otherwise is it? Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YGpuM_VJDQ4
I tend to think that we need to stop getting angry with Lucas and start treating him like that mad old uncle who we just nod and smile at whenever he starts talking. Poor old fool is clearly losing his marbles.
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Han and Greedo where sitting at the same table what like a foot and a half a part who ever shot first was walking out of there. Why Lucas tries to make excuses and change stuff idk geez Greedo had a gun pointed at Han it was Hans only logical plan for escape.
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Originally Posted by Dante
Because, it's not like we have over 20 years worth of TV screenings, videos, even the cruddy quality DVD release that proves otherwise is it? Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YGpuM_VJDQ4 |
Thanks for the link. I completely forgot that Greedo had his gun on Han the whole time. That looks even more like a scene from a spaghetti western.
I heard Lucas is re-editing all the Indiana Jones movies and replacing the Nazi's with Gungans.
I.....seriously. What.
Does it really, REALLY matter who shot first in a tiny section of a completely fictional story that's however many years old?
Yes, I love the original trilogy. It's probably a big part of why I love sci fi as much as I do. But....this boggles even MY cerebral circuits here. I can get really intense about the smallest of things (anyone listening to Union RP channel when we discuss game stuff should know that...)
So.....yeah....we know this is Lucas. What else is new?
Edit: Just watched the link. And yeah, he shot first. Even if Lucas changes it, so what? Han's still a badass.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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And like the Platonic ideal of the crazy uncle, he's making these outrageous statements in part to goad us. Basically, George Lucas has turned into a troll.|
Originally Posted by Dante
I tend to think that we need to stop getting angry with Lucas and start treating him like that mad old uncle who we just nod and smile at whenever he starts talking. Poor old fool is clearly losing his marbles.
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How is defending one's self from a guy with a gun pointed at you being a 'cold-blooded killer'?|
Originally Posted by George Lucas
"The controversy over who shot first, Greedo or Han Solo, in 'Episode IV,' what I did was try to clean up the confusion, but obviously it upset people because they wanted Solo [who seemed to be the one who shot first in the original] to be a cold-blooded killer, but he actually isn't..."
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No, Mr. Lucas, we don't want Han to be a cold-blooded killer, we just want Han to be quick-witted and *smart* to shoot the guy before possibly getting shot himself.
You just want Han to have super jedi reflexes to dodge blaster shots at point blank range. >_>
Guys, in all actuality, what you didn't know, a super secret, without a doubt, totally controversial, and beyond belief is..
The bartender shot first.
Greedo was a creep, to begin with. This you must understand or else nothing I tell you will seem wonderous....
Yes, I'm paraphrasing Dickens there but, hey, I could.
Anyway. I happen to be old enough to have seen the original version of the film in the theaters and I never had any doubt that Han shot first. It never really bothered me either.
In fact, I think myself and most of the theater laughed about it.
He gave Greedo (note the rather descriptive name) a chance to take a bribe and walk away. Greedo didn't. In fact, Greedo made it very clear that he intended to kill Han and cash him in for the reward.
Well, what's a good, slightly disreputable, smuggler to do? There seems to be only one option left and, in fact, you knew this was coming because we see Han unsnapping his holster.
Now, I will admit to being a little put off by the rework of the scene done in the '90's (?) Not that it changed my opinions of the characters any, but more that it just didn't seem necessary.
Oh, well. This will probably be argued about for years and years to come.
Thats my two cents rattling down into the coin box, please feel free to return to your forums with a clear conscience.
(ok, just rewatched the scene and Han does not offer him a bribe but, the little green creep still had it coming.)
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Think about it this way, two guys named, uh... Aaron and Alex are having a duel. They step off their twenty paces, turn, and Aaron fires before Alex, killing Alex before he can shoot his gun. Since Alex, unless he was suicidal or insane, intended to shoot Aaron, it is still correct to say Aaron shot first.|
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
Some people erroneously state that Han shot first, but that's wrong; saying Han shot first implies that Greedo shot second, but Greedo never got a shot off because he was deaders.
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To say that Han shot, period, does make him sound more like a cold-blooded killer rather than a man who was defending his life by shooting his would-be killer before said killer could get off a killing shot.
All of this used to bother me, but like I said in another thread on the subject, since I now have an official version of the original theatrical releases on dvd, I don't care what Uncle George changes from now on. It is kind of a shame though that kids who see Episode IV: A New Hope for the first time these days won't get the same impression of Han - as a badass, but not a cold-blooded killer - that kids like me and jwbullfrog got way back in 1977 when we first saw a movie that was then simply called Star Wars.
ETA: Lulipop, I am pretty sure that Wuher didn't even have a blaster, or he would've pulled it out when Dr. Evizan and Ponda Baba were hassling Luke and Ben.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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It...it was a joke.
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Originally Posted by mousedroid
ETA: Lulipop, I am pretty sure that Wuher didn't even have a blaster, or he would've pulled it out when Dr. Evizan and Ponda Baba were hassling Luke and Ben.
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As was my response.
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
It...it was a joke.
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(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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Yeah I've always thought it was very sad that Lucas may have been retroactively worried that Han shooting first would make people think he was a "cold-blooded killer". |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
How is defending one's self from a guy with a gun pointed at you being a 'cold-blooded killer'?
No, Mr. Lucas, we don't want Han to be a cold-blooded killer, we just want Han to be quick-witted and *smart* to shoot the guy before possibly getting shot himself. You just want Han to have super jedi reflexes to dodge blaster shots at point blank range. >_> |
Clearly Greedo was the bad guy in the encounter who was getting ready to kill Han. Han being cold-blooded? Hardly. It couldn't have been a more straightforward case of SELF DEFENSE if it tried to be. Han's preemptive action established that he was quick-witted and cool under pressure - exactly what he was SUPPOSED to be for the story. Had Greedo actually shot first in the original version it would have left me thinking Han was a weak-willed idiot.
It's not a question of Han -wanting- to kill Greedo - he had to in order to save his own life. There's nothing "morally" wrong with that at all.
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No. It's just idle conversation to chat about. Plus we get to laugh at Lucas and at any SW nerds that take this way too seriously.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I.....seriously. What.
Does it really, REALLY matter who shot first in a tiny section of a completely fictional story that's however many years old? |
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
No. It's just idle conversation to chat about. Plus we get to laugh at Lucas and at any SW nerds that take this way too seriously.
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NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!!
I am not a SW nerd...
... I am an all purpose nerd, there's a difference.
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No... in the greater scheme of things this quibble doesn't really matter all that much in real life. But that "tiny section of a completely fictional story" establishes the fundamental nature of a core character of one of the most beloved trilogy of movies ever made. That in and of itself makes it worthy of at least some critical discussion even years later.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I.....seriously. What.
Does it really, REALLY matter who shot first in a tiny section of a completely fictional story that's however many years old? Yes, I love the original trilogy. It's probably a big part of why I love sci fi as much as I do. But....this boggles even MY cerebral circuits here. I can get really intense about the smallest of things (anyone listening to Union RP channel when we discuss game stuff should know that...) So.....yeah....we know this is Lucas. What else is new? Edit: Just watched the link. And yeah, he shot first. Even if Lucas changes it, so what? Han's still a badass. |
Those few seconds reveal to us exactly the kind of character Han Solo is. Han shooting first told us that he was a savvy and street-smart rogue who was cool under pressure and able to take care of himself in a dangerous galaxy. Letting Greedo shoot first only leads us to think that Han is weak-willed and unprepared to deal with serious stuff.
Sure even after Lucas's ill-conceived change we can eventually see in the rest of the movies that Han is a badass. But in terms of establishing the character the idea of letting Greedo shoot first completely dilutes and confuses that for absolutely no useful purpose.
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I agree with you... That scene being changed ultimately lowers the quality of the films over all because of what you said... I should remind you all that I don't care for the SW trilogy in general and even I can see that. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
No... in the greater scheme of things this quibble doesn't really matter all that much in real life. But that "tiny section of a completely fictional story" establishes the fundamental nature of a core character of one of the most beloved trilogy of movies ever made. That in and of itself makes it worthy of at least some critical discussion even years later.
Those few seconds reveal to us exactly the kind of character Han Solo is. Han shooting first told us that he was a savvy and street-smart rogue who was cool under pressure and able to take care of himself in a dangerous galaxy. Letting Greedo shoot first only leads us to think that Han is weak-willed and unprepared to deal with serious stuff. Sure even after Lucas's ill-conceived change we can eventually see in the rest of the movies that Han is a badass. But in terms of establishing the character the idea of letting Greedo shoot first completely dilutes and confuses that for absolutely no useful purpose. |
I personally hate the people who keep saying stuff like "it doesn't matter" in reference to stories and such, because as pointed out in other threads...yeah so? but also it devalues so many people, from the writer to the viewer, that it makes you sound like an *** in my opinion.
though it should be pointed out... Han being faster than light is pretty badass
So in the new Star Wars game, does the smuggler actually get a "Don't Shoot First" ability that makes the opponents' first attack a guaranteed miss and all subsequent attacks a high chance to miss so long as the smuggler doesn't try shooting first?
Not even a sith should be able to touch one of them!
Some people erroneously state that Han shot first, but that's wrong; saying Han shot first implies that Greedo shot second, but Greedo never got a shot off because he was deaders.
Only now Lucas is saying that Greedo shot first all along and the only change to that scene was to change the camera angle to reflect that.
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