Coffee Talk Highlights, Jan 18: Crime Incarnate with Second "Redshirt" Measure and Bat-Aeon
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-01-18 13:37 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Go Z, its ya bday, gonna party like its ya bday! |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I'm going to say something which some of you may find unpopular, but there are times where it is my responsibility to stand up and be an advocate for our team. I apologize if my words cause you to be upset, but it is the right thing to say.
When you say we do not listen to feedback, it is disingenuous. You can accuse us of many things, but accusing this team, the team now, the developers who have been working on this game for over a year, of not taking player concerns into account it is something that is, quite frankly, hurtful. For example, let's look at the Super Packs. Based on feedback we have implemented the following:
I love you guys. I will walk through the fire for my Community and I will always, no matter what, represent your interests, regardless of my personal opinion. I have worked with developers who completely disregard player feedback, and I promise you, the Paragon Studios development team is not among them. -Z |
Well put statement here, anybody who doesnt think changes doesnt happen from feedback is simply blinded by their own wants/needs that didnt get changed.
You should have added
- Made huge changes over time to the incarnate trials [including rewards/difficulty] due to player feedback.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I enjoyed those. Any possibility they could come back again for a run?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
The one we used for last year's anniversary invasions.
Giant Monster and level-less. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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But Honey Badger don't care.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I also play on another server from time to time with Tunnel Rat and Honey Badger. Not telling you which one that is because I do not wish to feel the wrath of Tunnel Rat.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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/applause.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I'm going to say something which some of you may find unpopular, but there are times where it is my responsibility to stand up and be an advocate for our team. I apologize if my words cause you to be upset, but it is the right thing to say.
When you say we do not listen to feedback, it is disingenuous. You can accuse us of many things, but accusing this team, the team now, the developers who have been working on this game for over a year, of not taking player concerns into account it is something that is, quite frankly, hurtful. For example, let's look at the Super Packs. Based on feedback we have implemented the following:
I love you guys. I will walk through the fire for my Community and I will always, no matter what, represent your interests, regardless of my personal opinion. I have worked with developers who completely disregard player feedback, and I promise you, the Paragon Studios development team is not among them. -Z |
Agree. To say that you guys don't listen to feedback at all is not really true.
Case in point: The enhancement unslotter was something I posted as a suggestion and sent to some devs over a year ago. And look what happened with COH Freedom.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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There was more to the PvP changes and some of it was out of Castle's hands.|
Originally Posted by Noyjitat
So what about all that feedback that was given back when castle made pvp the worst that it's ever been?
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| Or the global defense nerf, enhancements and powerset nerfs. Reward nerfs from both dev and player created content. |
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If the dev team spent more time creating content and less time nerfing and dictating the way people played the game they loved you'd be making way more money than the paragon market is ever going to make for you. Do a few mini issues in between 22 and 23 to fix things like pvp and bases. And slowly fix one thing at a time in mini issues. Perfect way to continue adding new things to the game and also correct past mistakes. |
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This. Also thinking that systems as large and as complex as bases and pvp can be fixed in a mini issue is laughable. That is way not enough time to go looking into the issues and fixing them. pvp (if overhauled) will probably end being a LARGE part of a full issue on it's own.|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
There was more to the PvP changes and some of it was out of Castle's hands.
ED/GDN were a necessary evil, what made it bad was a beta tester spilled the beans before the Devs. Do you understand what you're asking? I've lost count at how many times people have pointed out that basically **** happens when it comes to code. When they fixed one thing, something completely unrelated breaks and they have to find out what exactly is causing it. Coding is mind numbing and time consuming. It certainly doesn't help that most of the original devs aren't here anymore and basically whoever takes the helm is handed the keys to a used car that has "a few kinks" in it... |
Also the more times they have to update the code to live, the more times they have to bring the servers down for patches. People already ***** when there is maint or a patch more than 1 to 2 times a week. And people are actually advocating they do it more?
I can ALREADY hear the ******** now: "they are taking the servers down for a patch to pvp/bases/etc?! But I don't care about those things."
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
No need to stalk....
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I don't know about Snow Globe stalking you guys but I for sure know Black Pebble was stalking me while I was playing Grav/Thermal Controller in beta! He was always popping up in his present outfit and asking questions like, "can I join your mission?"
Geez man!
<3
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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Thank you for replying, but you totally failed to address what I was saying.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
First, we have no plans to ever sell badges.
Second: We needed a way for players to easily track what costume parts or other items they still need without having to dive into the costume creator. Collections seemed like an ideal solution since it already lends itself to categorical listings that can be referenced in a relatively quick manner. That's about the extent of it. |
Costume parts listed in the Collections tab? Agreed, it makes sense. But WHY are other people allowed to see what costume parts I do or don't have? Why do you think it matters to them, unless it's to be seen as another type of badge to collect?
To quote the patch notes: "Players can view other players' collections just as they can view their badges."
Why?
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
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Why does it matter? It's of no consequence to anyone aside the occasional question of "how'd you get that?"
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Originally Posted by Rabid_M
Thank you for replying, but you totally failed to address what I was saying.
Costume parts listed in the Collections tab? Agreed, it makes sense. But WHY are other people allowed to see what costume parts I do or don't have? Why do you think it matters to them, unless it's to be seen as another type of badge to collect? To quote the patch notes: "Players can view other players' collections just as they can view their badges." Why? |
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I personally don't care whether this feature goes live or not, but if it was of no consequence to anyone, why would they spend development time on it? Obviously it is of consequence to someone.
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Why does it matter? It's of no consequence to anyone.
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Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
paragonwiki.com/wiki/List_of_Player_Suggested_Features
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Collections also show what content that person has purchased. Like the SSAs or First Ward. Ive seen iTrials get stalled by freems and premiums joining up. I can only assume that teams would get stalled by teammates that havent bought the content beforehand.... never PuGed an SSA or First Ward.
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Originally Posted by Rabid_M
Thank you for replying, but you totally failed to address what I was saying.
Costume parts listed in the Collections tab? Agreed, it makes sense. But WHY are other people allowed to see what costume parts I do or don't have? Why do you think it matters to them, unless it's to be seen as another type of badge to collect? To quote the patch notes: "Players can view other players' collections just as they can view their badges." Why? |
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A valid reason, with the costume parts just along for the ride.|
Originally Posted by Everything_Xen
Collections also show what content that person has purchased. Like the SSAs or First Ward. Ive seen iTrials get stalled by freems and premiums joining up. I can only assume that teams would get stalled by teammates that havent bought the content beforehand.... never PuGed an SSA or First Ward.
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Thank you. My concerns are now withdrawn.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
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My guess is that the code was created to allow other players to view Collections and all subsets of Collections (Badges, etc). It takes less effort to add a new subset which follows the same code than to create a new system to mirror the existing code, but without the open permissions.
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Originally Posted by Rabid_M
But WHY are other people allowed to see what costume parts I do or don't have?
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@Glass Goblin - Writer, brainstormer, storyteller, hero
Though nothing will drive them away
We can beat them, just for one day
We can be heroes, just for one day
Zwill, thanks for your responses, and rest assured, i know you guys respond to feedback, and have defended paragon often in the past(been called a kiss up by professional malcontents ) but Can you answer me one question, have you ever received a post asking for grab bags, Did somebody ask for them? I have never seen one, but I'm not everywhere. And finally, do grab bags get the company a significantly higher profit than buying costume sets?
the basis for those questions is just that here and in a similarly themed game, grab bags have been received in an overwhelmingly negative sense, I just cant see anyone actually wanting them, and just a few accepting them. Now i realized from a business standpoint that they give repeating revenue, but are they that much more profitable than costume sets on the market, I understand that paragon requires a steady stream of income, its why i have bought almost every costume part offered. but are costume sets as they are on the market just not bringing in the cash and we needed this? I want the game to stay profitable because thats how we get new things and talented people, so is it really a situation where we needed them? Anyway, the die is cast, and we will deal with the results, I want paragon to stay healthy, and am glad to do my part, but I completely hate this and it feels forced on us against strenuous opposition.
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Agreed. I now care and am happy about this feature being implemented.|
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
A valid reason, with the costume parts just along for the ride.
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I hope we'll have ways to see who isn't VIP for iTrials, as well as ways to see alignment for DFB and the like (let me know if there currently is a display for those, I haven't noticed one).
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
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The devs should never, ever NOT do something because the tiny percent of players on the forums have not asked for it. They've come up with things I've never even concieved that turned into some of the most fun things in this game.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
Zwill, thanks for your responses, and rest assured, i know you guys respond to feedback, and have defended paragon often in the past(been called a kiss up by professional malcontents
) but Can you answer me one question, have you ever received a post asking for grab bags, Did somebody ask for them? I have never seen one, but I'm not everywhere. And finally, do grab bags get the company a significantly higher profit than buying costume sets?the basis for those questions is just that here and in a similarly themed game, grab bags have been received in an overwhelmingly negative sense, I just cant see anyone actually wanting them, and just a few accepting them. Now i realized from a business standpoint that they give repeating revenue, but are they that much more profitable than costume sets on the market, I understand that paragon requires a steady stream of income, its why i have bought almost every costume part offered. but are costume sets as they are on the market just not bringing in the cash and we needed this? I want the game to stay profitable because thats how we get new things and talented people, so is it really a situation where we needed them? Anyway, the die is cast, and we will deal with the results, I want paragon to stay healthy, and am glad to do my part, but I completely hate this and it feels forced on us against strenuous opposition. |
People dont have to be in love with grab bags for them to be profitable. Throwing spare points at them on a whim rather than letting them stack up will directly result in more points being bought by the playerbase as a whole. Is that more than if they just sold the costumes, ATIOs, and Wolf Pet alone? I dont know... but I imagine it'd be more steady than the spike in sales the week theyre released.
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Using that list, I can remake my original post and say:|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
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Well, yes. But aside from Increased Blaster HP, Increased Blaster damage cap, Revisiting animations for Martial Arts, Katana, and Claws, Modifying Sonic Resonance graphics to reduce headaches caused by the animations, Kill Skuls Badge, Surging Badge, Supergroup badges, Badges unlocking contacts, Geas of the Kind Ones, Gender-specific badges (Man/Woman in Black)
*gasp*
Biker-style leather jackets, Fishnet Stockings, Trench coats, Bare legs for male characters, Badges unlocking costume pieces, Maple leaf chest symbol, Pirate costume pieces, Additional skirts, Ninja costume items, Spikes and chains costume pieces, Lab Coats, Multiple costume slots, Tennis shoes, Custom weapons
*gasp*
Inherent powers for all Archetypes, Removing the self immobilize from Unyielding Stance and Rooted, Origin temporary powers, Fold Space changed to Singularity, Elude improvements, Stackable Dark Armors and Ice Armors, Changed Domination to a Jekyl-Hyde style power, Changed Scourge from double damage at 20%, to increasing chance for double damage from 50%, Removed -ToHit from Fly, Added a short hover to Teleport, Ability to attack while using Superior Invisibility
*gasp* yeow what a long list @_@
Shortening Twilight Grasp's animation, Resistance debuff added to Tar Patch, Most knockback powers in melee sets changed to knockdown, Voltaic Sentinel given mobility, Blaster inherent name changed to Defiance, Damage debuff added to Chilling Embrace, Gauntlet, Fury, Changed the Rage crash from a Disorient to -100% Endurance, Changed the Rage crash from -100% Endurance to 10s of being unable to attack, Changed the Rage crash from 10s of being unable to attack to 20s of dealing no damage, Resurrect effect in Barrier Destiny.
*gasp* *faint* x.x Ok, I can't do the rest.
WHEN have the Devs ever listened to us!
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
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Yes, what have they ever done for us? |
Originally Posted by KianaZero
WHEN have the Devs ever listened to us!
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Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
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Except that right now the current Collections tab isn't publicly viewable.
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Originally Posted by GlassGoblin
My guess is that the code was created to allow other players to view Collections and all subsets of Collections (Badges, etc). It takes less effort to add a new subset which follows the same code than to create a new system to mirror the existing code, but without the open permissions.
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Never surrender! Never give up!
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That's my take exactly. Hell, reminds me of those people in other MMOs that freak out over the fact that other people can right click on them and see what gear they have. Like it's some big invasion of privacy...
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
Why does it matter? It's of no consequence to anyone aside the occasional question of "how'd you get that?"
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
When you say we do not listen to feedback, it is disingenuous. You can accuse us of many things, but accusing this team, the team now, the developers who have been working on this game for over a year, of not taking player concerns into account it is something that is, quite frankly, hurtful.
*snip*
-Z
But Paragon Studios has a history of listening to player feedback and explaining decisions made unmatched by any other MMO company I'm customer of... so keep on the good work...