City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Gender Equality in Costumes - A lack thereof

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-11-29 06:36 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric View Post
But for the sake of balance, bear in mind, most of the female players I know or have met in-game over the past two years (I mean provably female, owing to social networking, Vent or phone chats) have ALL preferred more skin, not less. Did they complain about male bias whenever new sets were released? Yes, of course. Yet, did they proceed to dress their characters like the sexified super heroines they enjoy playing? Yes.
Care to back up your anecdata with some facts, figures, names, and numbers?

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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric View Post
Anyway, it would actually be nice to have more female feedback, because a different kind of male bias permeates this thread, and it's as out of tune with reality as any.
Plenty of women on these forums have been perfectly clear early on in this thread about how they'd like some variety in their costume options and/or how they'd prefer less revealing pieces. Their opinions are more solid than any claims to a "different kind of male bias", silent majorities, and the like, and they're there for everyone to read.

 

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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
The Rogue PPD are all male, and the majority of the Longbow ones who become vigilantes are men
The Longbow mobs in the RI are all mixed gender, as are the ones in the Vigilante Longbow missions. Quit fooling yourself.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
Yes, poor victimized men... victimized by women wanting new costume options that aren't overtly sexualized!
Who're you calling a woman, punk?

I'm allowed to have an opinion on what I can and cannot use on my characters.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
Buuuut... the main reason I wanted to post in this attention worthy thread is to point out that the entirety of the game has a sex-bias.

There's been a real under representation of females in NPC mobs that, IMO, goes hand in hand with the lack of female pet models for MMs.
Well, for the NPCs I understand that the original reason was that CoH beta testers were asked if they wanted a greater variety of enemies, or male and female models for the same enemies; the former was chosen. I agree they should have added more females since then though.

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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
I don't think there's a single female police officer between Paragon, RI and Praetoria <snip>
You rescue a female cop in the first Loyalist: Power story arc. Her bio mentions that there are very few female cops in Praetoria.

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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
Even some of the co-ed groups only have one female type in the whole faction (Hellions, Freakshow)
Conserving resources I understand; male and female variations on the same critter take about as many resources and making two separate critters. So sometimes they add some gender variety while saving resources by doing both at once and making the different members of a faction different genders. Like Carnies with Strong Men; there's no Strong Women, nor any Ringmasters.

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Originally Posted by Daimyo_Shi View Post
I am with everyone of Heels not being Superhero/Fantasy attire.
Really?

Unrealistic? Yes. But heels are all over comics. And with some characters they aren't even an especially bad idea; if she fights by flying around and blasting, it doesn't matter if a superheroine wears heels, or even if she has legs at all.

Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth

 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Not unless you're reading too much into it.
Hell, I wouldn't have a partner if I didn't dig the ladies

But certain costumes just don't fit all characters. I have at least two who would have made use of the Showgirl outfit pieces.

I also had a concept for a DP/Poison Corruptor who dressed like a Gunslinger that I had hoped the 'Gunslinger' set would have had parts for. Chaps, belt, hoslters, maybe a new hat.
But nada.

Just as some female characters prefer spandex, tights or revealing clothes, some prefer armour, tough outfits and full cover. HOWEVER, only one of them is getting any parts as of late.
Never mind the fact, that female avatars still have more pants options then male/huge?

BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Who're you calling a woman, punk?

I'm allowed to have an opinion on what I can and cannot use on my characters.
I fear you may have misread my sarcasm. Also, the fact that it was explicitly in response to the link Oedipus Tex posted and his misplaced sense of victimization.

For the record, I also don't like the costume set, don't like that Paragon has been making sure that all their female premium costume bits are 'sexy,,' and their absolute refusal to give female avatars a cool jacket.

I have no issue with having 'sexy' as an option for female characters; just with having sexy as the only option for female characters.

Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!

 

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Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
Yes, poor victimized men... victimized by women wanting new costume options that aren't overtly sexualized!

Now people are being "victimized"? By what, a hemline? Is feminism now a debate about clothes?

 

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Originally Posted by Smersh View Post
I have no issue with having 'sexy' as an option for female characters; just with having sexy as the only option for female characters.
I can't be the only guy who thinks a woman in a cool jacket is sexy?

De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

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[Deleted duplicate post]

 

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Now people are being "victimized"? By what, a hemline? Is feminism now a debate about clothes?
Looks like we're taking a left turn away from costumes and starting down the path to politics. Let the mudslinging and ridiculing begin?

The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted

@Paladin

 

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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh View Post
Longbow has lots of female members, and happily commit crime left and right. I can't recall fighting a single female PPD officer and I've yet to see them break the law.

Makes you think!
So... men commit crime to impress their female coworkers?

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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

TechBot, I don't really think me and you are arguing. We'd both just like to see the game's choices expanded to broader tastes. Like I said in the beginning, my own female characters tend to dress up less revealingly. I AM arguing with the "True Gentleman" and ilk, who are showing their colors by tossing words like "whorrific" around regarding wholly valid female choices. Many female players plainly enjoy their revealing outfits. But players like Eva Destruction have a genuine problem if they CAN'T FIND OPTIONS outside of the classic comic books, when male characters undeniably have a full range of choices available to them. When players of female characters of various tastes are reasonably happy across the board, Paragon Studios will have something to really be proud of.

@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH

 

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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Looks like we're taking a left turn away from costumes and starting down the path to politics. Let the mudslinging and ridiculing begin?

It already did. See above for two separate comments for my "misplaced sense of victimization." Unfortunately, business as usual for that poster. Politics are not the issue here at all--we actually agree politically. What I disagree with are methods.

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
In the case of Longbow, they commit crimes to impress their female boss.
Yeah, but then they kill their female boss, so I guess it wasn't meant to be.

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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
When do they do that?
Villainside, level... 5?

And wow, look at the facebook comments crash, they're going crazy getting rid of any complaints about this pack.

Wanted: Origin centric story arcs.
If you've only played an AT once (one set combo) and "hate" it - don't give up. Roll a different combo. It may just be those sets not clicking for you.

 

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Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
So... men commit crime to impress their female coworkers?
I know I do!

Thought for the day:

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

=][=

 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
When do they do that?
End of the arc - after you disable the mediporters to make sure she dies.

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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
End of the arc - after you disable the mediporters to make sure she dies.
Longbow kill Ms. Liberty at the end of a level 5 arc?

(EDIT: Sorry, combining two poster's info, but I'm pretty sure the female boss Eva is referring to is Ms. Lib.)

The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.

Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?

A: You crash into another one.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siolfir View Post
Yeah, but then they kill their female boss, so I guess it wasn't meant to be.
Wait, what, Ms. Liberty is dead?

Thought for the day:

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

=][=

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Now people are being "victimized"? By what, a hemline? Is feminism now a debate about clothes?
You're the one who posted the link about 'men being expendable.' Which has nothing to do with clothing.

Comrade Smersh, KGB Special Section 8 50 Inv/Fire, Fire/Rad, BS/WP, SD/SS, AR/EM
Other 50s: Plant/Thorn, Bots/Traps, DB/SR, MA/Regen, Rad/Dark - All on Virtue.

-Don't just rebel, build a better world, comrade!

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms View Post
Longbow kill Ms. Liberty at the end of a level 5 arc?
Wrong boss. Think direct supervisor, not "that crazy lady off in the other country".

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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

 

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
I will bring the topic to development.

Realistically, don't expect it any time soon. Schedules are planned out months in advance and right now we're working on both Issues 22 and 23 and art schedules are quite possibly the most rigorous and time consuming of the lot, especially the character artists. Time to revisit previous costume pieces is not currently included and to do so would compromise new costume sets, villain groups, etc, etc...it has an extreme domino effect.
I guess the real moral of the story is: don't bother with feedback to anything related to the Art Team, because if there's a problem with something, it won't be addressed at all or will take a very long time due to backlogging.

Don't get me wrong, I love the art of CoH. But there's a pretty big flaw in the process, especially if you open a feedback thread regarding art assets in testing (in addition to a bug report thread) with little to no intention of actually using any gathered feedback. Feedback threads are customarily created to immediately address concerns the playerbase may have with items, not as a "circular file" for players to send feedback into a vortex.

I think that's the big problem a lot of players see with this issue. You've basically admitted that, even if there were issues with pieces, such as the pre-tinting or lack of options, nothing could have been done before the set was launched. If that was truly the case, there was little to no need for a feedback thread at all. It's like trying to give feedback on a ship that's already careening down the slipway ("Oh wait, there's a hole in the bow? Oh well..."). It makes a feedback thread an empty, futile gesture at best.