Gender Equality in Costumes - A lack thereof
You can gunfight in a bikini if you want to - in fact, if you pick the female gunslinger costume set option in the costume editor right off the bat, you will be - but I'd be concerned about not having anywhere to keep a pistol, and my entire outfit being set ablaze by a stray ember.
|
![](http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a356/The_Daemon/DirtyPair-KeiYuri-a.jpg)
![](http://www.honneamise.u-net.com/anime/dom25.jpg)
![](http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g151/vg-mmorpg/ForumAvatars/snowglobesig.png)
![](http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g151/vg-mmorpg/ForumAvatars/SnowGlobe_sigprotest_zps7dee0180.png)
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
You can gunfight in a bikini if you want to - in fact, if you pick the female gunslinger costume set option in the costume editor right off the bat, you will be
|
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
And Sue Storm? Even she has to wear a "cleavage window" outfit for formal occasions these days.
![]() |
The other fact to keep in mind is that the population of video gamers is gradually achieving parity between men and women. It's now about 60/40, having once been overwhelmingly male. Moreover, women make up a significant percentage of the dedicated MMORPG playerbase in general.
|
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
The default set I'm seeing in the editor isn't anything like beachwear
![]() |
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
![](http://fashion-era.com/images/Edwds1890-1915/beauties.jpg)
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Always remember, we were Heroes.
We've been trying to add unique and different costume pieces for female options for the sake of overall variety, however I understand some of the concerns being expressed here, as does the rest of the Art and Production team. Moving forward, where possible, we will be making more gender neutral/male pieces created for females so as to more accurately reflect the Communities requests. Because each costume piece has to be individually created (we can't CTRL+C, CTRL+V the pieces from male to female unfortunately
![]() |
I reject this notion of 'uniqueness', especially when it's corsets over and over again. (At this point, you could have made just one generic corset and produced different overlays for it.) Here's a vision of 'uniqueness': A fully covered gunslinger female, while the male model gets a bare chest with bandoleers. That would satisfy your vision of uniqueness, no? Probably not. And we all know why.
I also reject this false dilemma of either exactly the same or extreme gender differentiation.
I hope the art team finds the middle way.
Moving forward, we'll be offering both a pretinted and untinted option for all pieces which we choose to make pretinted. |
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
A female jacket of the same genre of a male jacket can't be unique? It can't have fringe? Or an upturned collar? Or three quarter's length sleeves? Or a raglan shoulder? Or Western clavicle panels? Or have elbow or shoulder patches? Or be sueded? Or be a waistcoat? Or be a duster? Or a (less revealing) embroidered bolero?
I reject this notion of 'uniqueness', especially when it's corsets over and over again. (At this point, you could have made just one generic corset and produced different overlays for it.) Here's a vision of 'uniqueness': A fully covered gunslinger female, while the male model gets a bare chest with bandoleers. That would satisfy your vision of uniqueness, no? Probably not. And we all know why. I also reject this false dilemma of either exactly the same or extreme gender differentiation. I hope the art team finds the middle way. |
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
![Smile](images/smilies/smile.gif)
A few of you have latched on to one aspect of my post, but if you read my whole post, I'm arguing more than anything for CHOICES, OPTIONS, UNMATCHED CUSTOMIZATION. Which is something that has always made City of X great. Let's have more of that!
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Same thing goes for male >>> huge. Each "port" is in all actuality a new costume piece from the ground up.
|
How about doing an actual "Gunslinger" Female set, then adding that to the set.
Pull the "Showgirl" look, and do a "That's the Ticket!" set, which features Showgirl and 'Showguy' sets for Male and Huge.
And then do that as costume sets from now on. So that we can actually pick sets A la Carte from the store -like was promised-. Stop deciding for us what can be on the menu for a gender.
Forse: lvl 22 FF/NRG Defender
Tam Krannock: lvl 37 Shield/Mace Tanker
Toppa Grace: lvl 25 Fire/Ice Blaster
----
Red Commissar: I'm in the Queen Mother. Only more awesome. And alive
Same thing goes for male >>> huge. Each "port" is in all actuality a new costume piece from the ground up.
|
Speculating from an outside but not entirely inexperienced vantage, going from male to huge should in most cases only take 50% of the time it took to make the original.
Workflow and file structure are pretty key for this stuff.
Comments like this have me wondering how old working files of assets are archived and what multi-artist project standards if any are being employed. In theory, your assets should be well managed and structured enough that two years after his leaving, any new artist could crack open one of Jay's old 3d files and within 15 minutes have a good handle on the build of the object and how to edit or modify it efficiently.
Personally, I felt the last two sets almost made 'old maids' out of the female toons. I'm half expecting the next period costume set to be 'flapper' gear.
Buuuut... the main reason I wanted to post in this attention worthy thread is to point out that the entirety of the game has a sex-bias.
There's been a real under representation of females in NPC mobs that, IMO, goes hand in hand with the lack of female pet models for MMs.
I don't think there's a single female police officer between Paragon, RI and Praetoria and most of the enemy groups seem to be a boys only club (Wyvern, Sky Raiders, GBs, Malta, Tsoo, Trolls, Council, Prisoners, Lost, etc). Even some of the co-ed groups only have one female type in the whole faction (Hellions, Freakshow)
And I still fail to see why at least one pet per MM tier couldn't use the female model.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
They almost certainly are not literally starting from scratch when porting each piece between models. If they were it would be easy to find many more inconsistencies between the ports, and some things need a lot more modification than others. A hat, for example, doesn't majorly change shape between Huge and Normal. I'm sure what Zel meant was just that there is a lot of work moving pieces from model to model.
But, I will say, I REALLY don't like the 'this stuff is done so far in advance that by the time the players actually see it in beta, there is no time for our feedback to mean a damn and actually get something changed' comment. That's a HORRIBLE way of doing things.
|
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
Forse: lvl 22 FF/NRG Defender
Tam Krannock: lvl 37 Shield/Mace Tanker
Toppa Grace: lvl 25 Fire/Ice Blaster
----
Red Commissar: I'm in the Queen Mother. Only more awesome. And alive
Bayformers, Zwill, Bayformers. There hasn't been an ACTUAL Transformers movie since the '86 one, remember?
|
Although the giant robot thing Michael Bay did was not bad at times.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
We've been closely following your feedback regarding this topic, both here and on the Beta forums. Unfortunately Cheryl, the artist who worked primarily on the Gunslinger Character Modelling, has been extremely pressed for time creating new costume sets and as such hasn't been able to post directly on the beta feedback thread. That being said, the feedback and concerns expressed have been communicated to the art and production team.
To address a few points We've been trying to add unique and different costume pieces for female options for the sake of overall variety, however I understand some of the concerns being expressed here, as does the rest of the Art and Production team. Moving forward, where possible, we will be making more gender neutral/male pieces created for females so as to more accurately reflect the Communities requests. Because each costume piece has to be individually created (we can't CTRL+C, CTRL+V the pieces from male to female unfortunately ![]() If anyone took offense to our artistic choices, I apologize. It's not our intent to offend anyone. Regarding the pretinting of costume pieces: While pretinted pieces give the artists the ability to provide some very unique materials and add more visual interest to select pieces, we dont want to limit your creativity, either. Moving forward, we'll be offering both a pretinted and untinted option for all pieces which we choose to make pretinted. Thanks -Z |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
The BrandX Collection
We've been closely following your feedback regarding this topic, both here and on the Beta forums. Unfortunately Cheryl, the artist who worked primarily on the Gunslinger Character Modelling, has been extremely pressed for time creating new costume sets and as such hasn't been able to post directly on the beta feedback thread. That being said, the feedback and concerns expressed have been communicated to the art and production team.
To address a few points We've been trying to add unique and different costume pieces for female options for the sake of overall variety, however I understand some of the concerns being expressed here, as does the rest of the Art and Production team. Moving forward, where possible, we will be making more gender neutral/male pieces created for females so as to more accurately reflect the Communities requests. Because each costume piece has to be individually created (we can't CTRL+C, CTRL+V the pieces from male to female unfortunately ![]() If anyone took offense to our artistic choices, I apologize. It's not our intent to offend anyone. |
Regarding the pretinting of costume pieces: While pretinted pieces give the artists the ability to provide some very unique materials and add more visual interest to select pieces, we don’t want to limit your creativity, either. Moving forward, we'll be offering both a pretinted and untinted option for all pieces which we choose to make pretinted. Thanks -Z |
i'm still a little puzzled by the random addition of miniature cattle skulls and/or horns to some of the pieces, especially the pistols. i like the gun/knife combo, and they have been made and used in the past, but the skulls on the gloves and horns on the guns seem almost like there was a mandate from someone in higher management to make sure there were some cattle skulls and horns in the set because it's totally Western Gunslinger to have them and the artists decided to just stick them on there to get it out of the way. Still, it does make designing a holster for the pistols more challenging with the horns. Which i guess is moot anyway since there aren't any holsters.
For all that i may have complaints about some of what was or wasn't done for the set the individual pieces are quite nicely made.
Another set with female gunslinger pieces, male saloon worker/gambler pieces, and maybe some Native American pieces would be nice for a future pack. Just a thought.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
As far as I'm concerned, there hasn't been an actual Transformers anything since the '86 movie.
Although the giant robot thing Michael Bay did was not bad at times. |
It wasn't Transformers, though, I know that much.
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
I don't think there's a single female police officer between Paragon, RI and Praetoria and most of the enemy groups seem to be a boys only club (Wyvern, Sky Raiders, GBs, Malta, Tsoo, Trolls, Council, Prisoners, Lost, etc). Even some of the co-ed groups only have one female type in the whole faction (Hellions, Freakshow)
And I still fail to see why at least one pet per MM tier couldn't use the female model. |
I think they need to come out with an Amazonian MM set once Titan Weapons and Staff Melee are out. Teir 1 uses staves, Teir 2 uses Sword and Shield, and Teir 3 uses a Titan Weapon. Make 'em big, buff, and awesome. But first, Animal MMs.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
As for her role in Bayformers...eugh...
I just think she does women in general a disservice. Mind you, I'd say the same for the majority of female celebrities.