Unanswered Pummit Questions

Well since Freedom came out we have six new sets announced/released:
Beam Rifle: Pay only
Time Manipulation: Free for VIPs
Street Justice: Pay only
Titan Weapons: Pay only
Darkness Control: Free for VIPs
Staff Fighting: Pay only

So yes melee characters are getting more sets than other ATs but they are having to pay for all of them. Except for Beam Rifle the non-melee sets have been free for VIPs. Honestly this doesn't surprise me, melee characters are by far the most popular so giving them lots of pay-to-play powersets is a good move in terms of income.

As for Dominators losing out, sure they didn't get any proliferation in I21 but they are one of only two ATs to get proliferation in I22 (Dark Assault is considered a proliferation apparently). So freedom launch through I22 Dominators are coming out ok. They are tied with MMs with two new/proliferated sets and only one set behind Stalkers and Blasters who each have three new/proliferated sets. Sure it would be nice to see more Dominator sets but it would be nice to see new sets of every type. I don't particularly begrudge the devs for making lots of new melee sets, I'm not interested in them but I'm sure they sell a lot better than other set types.

I don't know if every other AT needs attention myself. At least in how the AT operates. This doesn't mean individual sets within the ATs dont.

Tankers may not be everyone's cup of tea, but personally they seemed balanced for what they are. Same goes for most of the ATs.

I could possibly see people not seeing Defenders as balanced against Corrs, since a lot of their debuffs seem to be the same between the ATs.

But they're still pretty balanced as an AT.

I know I still havent bought Beam Rifle!

I'm curious as to why you think MMs need a design pass when they're considered one of the strongest ATs.

Ooh, that gives me an idea!

Increase the XP, shard, and purple recipe drop rate on quantum/voids by 400%.

Then every team will want one

(yes, I do realize just how horrendously broken that would be)

I am making two Blasters right now. One is Beam Rifle/Fire and one is Dark/Mental. I haven't played Blasters in a long time (been playing mostly Stalkers and SoA). Beam Rifle with Aim + Build UP can take down any boss faster than my Stalker and Dark Blast is just so good with a variety of controls, debuff and healing.

I actually think Blasters are much better than I imagined. My very first 50 is Sonic/Ice but that's before set bonuses were released.

Blasters at least do one thing very well and that's damage (range and aoe damage, I agree melee modifier needs to be higher to be worth it). I find my Beam Rifle taking down bosses faster than any of my Stalkers. Yes, Blasters don't have defensive secondary but Blasters fit one role very well and that is damage.

Stalker? Stalker can't fill the damage role for the team (unless you are Spines and maybe Electricity). Stalker does good damage but Blasters can take down 75% of the mob with just Aim + Build Up. And with set bonuses, Blasters survive relatively well. Of course it is not as well as Stalkers but my Stalkers never really draw that much aggro to begin with (hence my advantage of having defensive secondary is a bit over-rated on a larger team because I am never going to grab aggro away from Tank/Brute).

Both Blaster and Stalker seem to get over-shadowed by Scrappers/Brutes. As for Dominator, even after the new change, I feel Blaster's damage is still way higher. The only Assault set that can compete with Blaster is /Fiery. Other than Fiery, I would only rate Dominator's damage as "good" and Blaster is between "very good to excellent". And in situations where controls don't work (itrial AVs for example), Dominators don't seem to have that much advantage over Blasters.

This is coming from a player who mostly only play villains (primarily Stalker and Dominator) for years, and suddenly change to Blaster a few weeks ago. I just forgot how high Blaster's damage is. Blaster's damage puts my Stalker to shame.

Let's just say that in general, if a team needs damage, most people would think of Blaster and not Stalker. And yet, when a team needs tank, nobody would think of Stalker. So in the end, Stalker does not fit any team-concept. Not the best ST and AoE damage dealer. Not the best tank and certainly not the best support and controls. This is why I rank Stalker over Blaster in terms of "who needs more help".

Edit: As for Kheldians, I just don't like the two other Forms. They are too limited for all the restrictions and delay in shifting.

Agreed.

My list though would be:
Peacebringers
Stalkers
Blasters
MMs
Everyone else.

And MMs only follow blasters because they need some more proliferation (of what's possible left to give them).

Oh, sorry. When I typed that (the IE, anyway) I was thinking of defense as a general concept and not as the specific game function.

But... now that you spell it out like that... I'm not entirely sure how a Piercing damage type would work effectively without being over-powered.

I suppose you could just make it like any other damage type (smashing/lethal/toxic) and just make it less resisted on all enemies. Then change all the Stalker attacks so their damage is half piecing and sm/l/en/whatever. But that doesn't really promote the spike damage aspect of the AT...

Maybe it's just a bad idea, lol, I don't know. I was just looking for ways to make Stalkers interesting and unique outside of hide.

Its not the pay issue.. people keep pointing out the issue that it costs money.. if its good.. people will pay.. I

I think I might have figured out a way to do this ... and not the way that Kitsune is talking about.

Ever watched Wormhole "scoop up" a bunch of Foes and toss them onto the target area/point? Ever noticed how they don't come OUT of the Teleport Foe effect spread out the way they originally were when they went IN?

YEAH ...



Here's what I'm thinking. We "borrow" most of the functionality/coding of Wormhole (ie. Target AoE Teleport Foe) and use THAT as the "core" of the Black Hole (Dark Miasma, and proliferations) *and* for Dimension Shift (Gravity Control).

Here's the "basics" of how the power would work:

Black Hole (Dark Miasma) / Dimension Shift (Gravity Control)
Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Teleport, Hold, Intangible

Level 26 (Dark Miasma), 12 (Gravity Control)
Type Click
PvE damage scale 0.000000
Accuracy 1
Modes required
Modes disallowed Disable_All
Range 60 feet
Activate period -
Interrupt time -
Cast time 1.17 seconds
Recharge time 90 seconds
Endurance cost 13
Attack types AOE
Effect area Sphere
Radius 25 feet
Arc -
Max targets hit 16
Entities affected Foe
Entities autohit
Target Foe
Target visibility Line of Sight
Nofity Mobs Always

Target:

0 Translucency for 1.5s (after 0.5 second delay) [Non-resistable]

4.1 Teleport (mag 3) (after 1 second delay)

+10000% Res(Teleport) for 15s (after 1.1 second delay) [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs] [Non-resistable]

3 Intangible, Phase, Phase, Immobilized for 28.5s (after 1.5 second delay)
If target.enttype == critter

-1 ThreatLevel for 30s
If target.enttype == critter

3 Intangible, Phase, Phase, Immobilized for 8s (after 1.5 second delay)
If target.enttype == player
Suppressed when Untouchable, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)

-1 ThreatLevel for 4s
If target.enttype == player
Suppressed when Untouchable, for 15 seconds (WhenInactive)



Something akin to this ought to work.

It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

My only complaint about MMs is that in really epic settings (crazy TFs and trials) you have to keep pets in BG mode to avoid being killed instantly. And pets that die super easily to the massive damage attacks going on that you can't even give commands to don't feel very useful.

I think they've done a little to alleviate that though. I swear the death patches from Apex don't hurt pets as much as they should.

And really if not feeling quite as useful as you might otherwise in a small subset of content is their only problem they're doing pretty good.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

With SO slotting:

BU + AS + Placate + Eagle's Claw + Cobra + CAK

1070.49 + 893.09 + 299.75 + 324.2 = 2587.53

1.32 + 5.148 + 1.716 + 2.772 + 1.848 + 1.848 = 14.652

I can see Beam Rifle generating 2570 damage (approximate boss health at level 50) at level 50 about as fast as that, but not massively faster. Certainly not enough to compensate for the fact that the stalker has the same health, personal damage mitigation, and mez protection.


This comes up a lot with archetype comparisons. A does X well, and B only does Y well but Y doesn't matter. Stalkers get personal protection, but that doesn't matter in teams because the tanker has all the aggro. But conversely, if one blaster can take out 75% of the spawn, then your offense doesn't really matter either.

In real play, defense matters because in real play blasters die. Mez protection matters because in real play blasters die to mez often. Prior to the last round of changes, that was the most common datamined cause of blaster death. That's why Defiance 2.0 allows Blasters to shoot through mez: it was seen as the best way to give them a chance to break out of a mez that would otherwise eventually kill them.

And its a lot easier to pop reds than greens. There's no penalty for running out of reds.

Not sure if you're still reading this thread, Synapse, but I've been thinking, debating and apparently nagging other posters trying to get their opinions and perspectives for the old and future Stalker/AS changes.

From what I can gather, and what I actually based my stance on, is some players do not currently take and/or use AS and many prefer to use placate with other powers like Concentrated Strike, Burst, Thunderstrike, Crushing Uppercut, etc. As is, AS from hide or Placate > AS is only marginally useful, which isn't wholly an issue...

But with the new changes discussed, the relative effectiveness of hidden AS or Placate > AS is lessened because it will simply be better (for burst and DPS) to simply use AS to scrap.

Now I'm not certain if that is the intended direction you want to take that attack, but it seems backward to me that hidden AS would, in many circumstances, be *less* useful than unhidden AS. Not to mention, Assassin's Focus provides more benefit to button mash vs timed surgical strikes.

Would it not be more thematic to 'invert' the proposed addition to Stalkers? Making it so a hidden AS animates in 1 second and an unhidden AS animates in 3? Then you can make it so Assassin's Focus 'aids' the unhidden Stalker by improving the effectiveness of unhidden AS? A Stalker should fundamentally be at his peak when attacking from ambush, right? So being able to rush into a spawn and click your mightiest attack for a quick death still feels perfectly thematic.

And this is all a suggestion, but Assassin's Focus basically making AS a 100% crit every time (stacking 3 attacks is *really* easy) sounds a bit much anyway. If an unhidden AS is regularly 3sec animation and interruptible, Assassin's Focus could buff the power in other ways, like stacking it once makes one immune to being interrupted (hey, that could be a buff for the epic snipes too!), and stacking it to max could swap the activation to the 1sec version...

Again, this is all just theorycraft, but even if your goal is to make Stalkers into the ST damage kings, I still think they can be by still keeping in practice with the standard tools of a current Stalker (Hidden ambush, placate, Assassination, Demoralize, all that jazz) vs relying practically only on mash-button as fast as possible.

It seems like they're trying to significantly buff single target stalker damage to the point where they will be flat out, hands down, the best single target damage dealers in the game for EITHER short OR long fights. They will be useful to AV teams and Trial leagues.

I've said many times before: If ST damage is supposed to be a Stalker's niche they need to be really really good at it. ST damage is not something that most teams care about. AoE damage and buffs/debuffs are king. EVERYONE has ST attacks. In order for "ST damage" to be a Stalker's job they need to be way better than everyone else at it. Hopefully this patch will help.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

If there is as someone suggested an Oro Echo of DA with Adamastor then this really isn't an issue.

If all the rewards in the new DA are Incarnate based then I would expect it to be restricted to VIPs.

I doubt the announcement channel would announce Adamastor in the echo, which would make hunting for him there annoying.

But in any case, we already know it's not an issue. The zone isn't gated.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

I believe AS will still do way more damage from Hide. I also believe there's no AoE fear outside of Hide. What the change means is:

1) Ideally, leading off with AS is still the best option. It will do the most damage of all your attacks.

2) If leading off with AS is impractical, you can still use it in the fight at some point.

3) You can use AS more than once (or twice with Placate) per spawn.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Love it.





This is how I see them as well. I can't wait to test out these changes, and I don't even play Stalkers.


Your suggested changes have me ready to play an AT that I have not yet been able to take to L50. (I usually get frustrated in the mid 20s to mid 30s).


I don't disagree, but at the same time I have also come to really appreciate being at range in the endgame.

Obviously this does nothing for the rest of the entire game, but in the endgame the devs have made a very concentrated effort to create situations that make being at range a decent advantage.

AoE area denial abilities, high damage or even (near) instant death PBAoEs/Patches, etc. (Actually, chasing down prisoners on a melee has me wanting to poke my eyes out more than any of these at this point)

It doesn't make being at range a cakewalk, and it doesn't mean I don't think Blasters don't deserve a balance pass (they do) - but being at range gets a little more attractive with each new trial.

In a single hit, it will do more damage - scale 7.0 compared to scale 2.76, or 5.52 on a critical out of hide.

However, over time the new AS out of hide, even at a 0% critical rate, will have a higher DPA than AS from hidden status. I edited a post I made about it here, showing that with 2 stacks of Assassin's Focus you'll have better DPA than Energy Transfer... with it's old animation. And that's normalized, not even accounting for Kinetic Melee's short animation (until fixed after i22) - KM hits new levels of ridiculousness.

If old ET could carry EM into getting nerfed all on its own, I'd say something that can outperform it on a regular basis will certainly help Stalker single target damage.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Not directly, but there's no such thing as seriously balancing anyone's single target damage without ultimately involving DPA.

Where I think the original designers fell down was in not even realizing DPA was at all important, or even really have any idea about the concept at all, and I mean that literally. I think Castle was willing to experiment with it, but I don't think he had a strong enough handle on how it worked dynamically (and completely flattening it to a constant in PvP was an error). A real balancing effort around DPA would take what I would describe as "high computational effort" and I don't think the current devs think its worth it, except in spot cases. It also starts to put animator time into play when you start mucking with cast times, and animator time is almost as costly as Zwil's hat budget.