Discussion: Featured Items at the Paragon Market - 11/15/11
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2011-11-15 11:36 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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And, depending on how good your data-mining is, identifies and assigns various consumers into groups by price sensitivity based on behavior rather than postings ( ' ;|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
And that's you. I promise you that many, many people found storage increases compelling, many, many folks found costume slots compelling...etc...
It's a matter of preference. We know we're not going to hit 100% of the people 100% of the time. What we are doing is keeping track of what sells at what price and in what numbers. This, combined with direct feedback, is helping us develop a sound business strategy moving forward and to more readily anticipate what you guys would like to see offered. |
Then the targetted marketing begins (as well as a use for that coupon box....).
BTW, Z, will there be any black friday/cyber monday deals? ( ' :
@Texarkana
@Thexder
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Count on it.
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Originally Posted by Texarkana
BTW, Z, will there be any black friday/cyber monday deals? ( ' :
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Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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It may seem funny, but if the above two suggestions where active, then I think I likely would purchase the pet. It's the little extras like this that would make it enjoyable.
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Originally Posted by Ideon
Improvements needed on the dog:
1: Work with Walk power - we have a walk power and a dog power, only make sense to allow players to walk their dog, haha. Dog will probably need new walking animation as well. 2: Allow dog to growl and bark at enemies if player is attacking them. I don't want a dog to just sit there scratching itself while I'm wailing on enemies. Having it bark at enemies would also serve the purpose of non-combat-ness while at least giving it the appearance of showing some interest in what you do.  |
I still say the best way to provide real, tangible feedback that will really give the powers-that-be information on the dog vanity pet is to NOT purchase it if you disagree with it's price.
Of course, that does not invalidate speaking your mind about it here, too. But NOT buying it is the strongest way. If sales are low compared to other items of the same point cost range, then it will be clear it is either overpriced or not wanted by the playerbase.
It will likely go on sale and/or the price go down.
However, I am betting that the reason for the price is the amount of impact it has on server resources and the amount of manhours it cost to develop for the Paragon team. It is the first item to use the new quadraped 'rig' and there will be other items using it. We'll see if that will bring the price down.
If it was less expensive, everyone would be buying it, the servers would be full of them and they would both not be so special, wouldn't have the prestige of vanity that makes them 'special'.
Remember folks, there is nothing, and I do mean NOTHING in the game that requires any vanity item.... other than your own desire to collect every item in the game, or find that the pet provides you with that cosmetic, vanity aspect that completes your character.
You don't HAVE to buy it at ANY price... keep that in mind. I personally plan to wait for them to go on sale. They are really beautiful. For now I will only have them on the beta server where they were free because we were Testing them.
Last point: Other games have vanity pets. They have historicly charged up to $25 for them, and at most people could use them as an alternate mount for travel. The dog is 500 pts aka $6.25 approximate. There was as much complaints about those $25 pets in other games as there is about this dog, in ratio with the number of players we have. I don't think the Paragon Studios folks are going to drop the price any, except in sales. But I could be wrong.
Have fun, folks! And be good... if you can't be good, be careful... or just play bull in the china shop!
Too Many Characters... not enough player
Member of Alts-R-Us.
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I didn't and I won't. Just like I did not buy Street Justice, the CoT Costume Set, the Barbarian Costume set, the 600 Point "sale" on Costume Slots, and the (in my opinion) overpriced enhancement trays. I'm not even going to say what I think about the consumables.|
Originally Posted by Thrillseeker
I still say the best way to provide real, tangible feedback that will really give the powers-that-be information on the dog vanity pet is to NOT purchase it if you disagree with it's price.
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Originally Posted by Thrillseeker
Of course, that does not invalidate speaking your mind about it here, too. But NOT buying it is the strongest way. If sales are low compared to other items of the same point cost range, then it will be clear it is either overpriced or not wanted by the playerbase.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I sure won't purchase that stuff, however, to give more precise "feedback" if it matters.
The issue is NOT about having something interesting for every player every week. I don't care much if what's on the store isn't interesting for me each week, however, i'd just like to see the good stuff being released instead of getting pushed back in the hope peoples will buy the other junk meanwhile.
The only decent thing (and i mean, stuff that looks worth its price and worth a weekly release) for the past 3 weeks has been the autumn aura for me. While i didn't buy it as i'm not interested, i'm actually fine with it and it's a decent item in the market.
The undead survival kit was an insult to anyone's intelligence, the dog is almost as bad though it had at least some dev time behind to justify 1/10th of the price (as i'm sure they'll release dozens of other useless pets on that rig to make some profit out of it anyway). Vanity item ? Hell i'll sure don't forget to make fun of anyone buying them and make some comments on the beast to make sure they think twice about buying such things later. They'll have a run for their money on being the laughing stock if they want to feel unique. Good thing, i've only seen one today on my server, and most of the peoples on the server chat were already making fun of it and adding that to the pile of useless stuff to avoid buying.
Though i'm just wondering what's the point currently: infuriate and alienate the VIP playerbase while making some profit on newcomers who don't realize the real value of such stuff ? Because right now releasing such "deals" while on top of that providing awful support and updates full of bugs is quite a sure way to do it. And each week i see more and more regular players disgusted and angry at the market.
So yeah for the very first time since i play this game i went from being confident and appreciating the Paragon team to feeling the same as in most other games. So now i just hope that the other new game coming out in december will drive all the free players and compulsive buyers away and bring some reality check to Paragon Studios when it comes to which part of the playerbase is worth pleasing, and where they'll get the money in the long run.
At least make some "sales" and use common sense for marketing, or just pretend to not be such a bunch of greedy marketing guys, because right now the only thing i get out of that shop is that the team behind it doesn't deserve ANY cent that i don't find necessary for what i really need. That's pretty much like these little shops were you step in, grab the only item you want then pay and leave fast with a bad feeling because you know you just got robbed and had no other choice, rather than the friendly one where you feel like staying a bit and look what's on sale because it looks nice, it's priced fairly and the seller is friendly enough. Not exactly a good feeling and hardly a viable plan once all the "buy it now" crowd will move to the next game with all the cool kids on it, imo.
Dark armor lover.
The Claws/DA Scrapper guide.
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To be fair, it's an exception. I also want but won't buy the costume slots despite the fact that my main RP character has over 45 outfits. $20 is way too high. I also think $1 for individual costume parts is too high. I've complained about both on numerous occasions. I'm glad the autumn aura is currently 80 points because I was foaming at the mouth about it being 120 points. I don't want it, but I don't want the devs to get the idea that they should be selling individual costume parts for even $1, much less more than a dollar each.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The thing is for everyone player like myself that refuses to buy something that is overpriced, there are players with multiple accounts that must buy NAO! Also, there are players, like Dispari, who will think it is overpriced but buy the items anyways.
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Mostly I bought the dog to help fund development of future four-legged rig stuff (like an MM set). Though I'd still prefer a wolf. And it needs to work with [Walk].
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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You take away the ability to have multiple free earned pets out at once and then offer an overpriced for pay pet shortly there after.
Really devs? No REALLY?
I won't comment on the intelligence of such a move since it lacks ANY intelligence at all.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Just to be very clear on the pricing:|
Originally Posted by Dispari
To be fair, it's an exception. I also want but won't buy the costume slots despite the fact that my main RP character has over 45 outfits. $20 is way too high.
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Costume Slot #6 = 800 PP or $10
Costume Slot #7 = 800 PP or $10
Costume Slot #8 = 800 PP or $10
Costume Slot #9 = 800 PP or $10
Costume Slot #10 = 800 PP or $10
$50 total.
The sale was 25% off or 600 PP/slot. That is $7.5/slot instead of $10/slot or $37.50 for 5 slots.
That other competitor is selling costume slots (an unlimited amount no less) for 1/4 the price for account wide costume slots ($5.65 for 2 account wide costume slots). Two degrees from me (friend of a friend) bought 100 costume slots there because of one character (a single character costume slot is $1.75).
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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What is being pushed back to push this 'other junk'? If you're referring to the constant whine fest of 'where's my titan weapons' then you're completely wrong. Titan Weapons is A) Still in beta testing so it *works* when it's released and B) Has never had a firm release date. |
Originally Posted by Celidya
The issue is NOT about having something interesting for every player every week. I don't care much if what's on the store isn't interesting for me each week, however, i'd just like to see the good stuff being released instead of getting pushed back in the hope peoples will buy the other junk meanwhile.
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To try to say the devs are pushing it back solely to milk us for cash with 'junk' is an absurd notion. The devs *want* to release the set, they *know* it's going to be popular, but it's not *finished* yet, just like the iTrial that was meant to be the centerpiece of Media Blitz. And we *just* got done with getting the fix for the live publish from last week, do you really think the Devs would be stupid enough to just kick out a power set that is still getting the bugs worked out? Do you know how much ragewhine would be dumped on the forums for everyone buying a new power set and not have it work right?
Bottom line: The set isn't out yet because it's not done being tested and tweaked. To imply anything else is being a spoiled child that doesn't have their new toy yet.
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Ok, let's calm down and try for a little intellectual honesty, eh?|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Just to be very clear on the pricing:
Costume Slot #6 = 800 PP or $10 Costume Slot #7 = 800 PP or $10 Costume Slot #8 = 800 PP or $10 Costume Slot #9 = 800 PP or $10 Costume Slot #10 = 800 PP or $10 $50 total. The sale was 25% off or 600 PP/slot. That is $7.5/slot instead of $10/slot or $37.50 for 5 slots. That other competitor is selling costume slots (an unlimited amount no less) for 1/4 the price for account wide costume slots ($5.65 for 2 account wide costume slots). Two degrees from me (friend of a friend) bought 100 costume slots there because of one character (a single character costume slot is $1.75). |
First of all, that other competitor doesn't offer discounts on points purchases, so their costume slots are always $2.82, while ours are can be had for $8.33, (or $6.25 when they were on sale, but let's stick to full price for comparisons.)
BUT!
Their character slots are $7.00 each. Ours are as low as $3.33. Kinda puts the shoe on the other foot.
Their rename - $3.50. Our rename $8.33.
Their respec - $12.50. Our respec $8.33
In other words, prices are all over the place, and picking just the one that supports your argument makes your argument weak. In the main, it seems like the prices are roughly comparable.
(BTW, that hobbity game - costume slot $4.71, character slot $5.66, rename $9.47, respec N/A)
I'm a bit disappointed that the wolf pet became a shepherd instead. A wolf is much more iconic and cool of a pet. At the very least it was more fitting for the two characters I had in mind. Can we eventually expect to see a wolf variety added as well?
I think I'll save my points till this one goes on sale. (3 different canine skins at 600 points for a bundle would have had me. But 500 for a vanity pet I'm not so sure I even have a use for? pass for now.)
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I just thought up one more:|
Originally Posted by Badaxe
It may seem funny, but if the above two suggestions where active, then I think I likely would purchase the pet. It's the little extras like this that would make it enjoyable.
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3: If used outside missions, allow random standard NPCs (not the enemy ones) to occasionally comment "Nice dog" or "Awwwwww" or "I hate dogs!" or something similar to how NPCs can comment on your past missions.
Ideon's Paragonwiki page
Member of Paragon/Rogue Knights
Arc: 60092 - Supa Rumble in the Park
"Keep living the dream, and never let any jerk tell you what to do."
-- High-Roller
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Yes, intellectual honesty would seem to insist that you use the normal price, not the "bulk" price. So thanks for nullifying your own argument.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Ok, let's calm down and try for a little intellectual honesty, eh?
First of all, that other competitor doesn't offer discounts on points purchases, so their costume slots are always $2.82, while ours are can be had for $8.33, (or $6.25 when they were on sale, but let's stick to full price for comparisons.) |
Have a nice day.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I have to disagree on this one. I'm sure you (and your store team) are well aware of the numbers Steam has shared regarding the impact of sales on digital goods. While account services are definitely the 'big deal' that would get a lot of people to jump, I think there is plenty of other stuff in the store you could discount. Consumables are the most obvious, but there are also all of the IOs and costumes.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
1 a week isn't sustainable in the long run. Account Services being on sale is something special, reserved for special occasions, and we'll almost always try to tie it to something that's topical or thematic.
Putting items like character slots and storage increases on sale is a pretty big deal. |
Counting, it looks like you could have weekly sales on (1 costume pack + 1 set of consumables + 1 IO set) for easily 4 months without repeating yourselves. That's a pretty reasonable cycle, and you're going to continue adding to the store, so... while I agree that 'big deal' sales should be rare, I think that you're wrong about the feasibility of having other stuff on sale every week.
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You were the one who brought up the example of a person who spent $175 on costume slots. Bulk pricing applies.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Yes, intellectual honesty would seem to insist that you use the normal price, not the "bulk" price. So thanks for nullifying your own argument.
Have a nice day. |
But I think I will have a nice day, thank you.
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Not only Titan Weapons but pretty much anything the community has been asking for months/years and we're told it's too long to dev, while on the other hand they put some random ressources into making more useless stuff.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
What is being pushed back to push this 'other junk'? If you're referring to the constant whine fest of 'where's my titan weapons' then you're completely wrong. Titan Weapons is A) Still in beta testing so it *works* when it's released and B) Has never had a firm release date.
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I don't think it's too unrealistic to say most peoples would rather have some UI effort put into pool power customization rather than a new broken UI to track account unlocks, just to take the first thing that comes to mind. Or that another 10mn bugged SSA with a terrible storyline is being rushed out while the "content" of the last patch is delayed.
TW in beta testing ? Really ? You mean, like the last two patches that broke more stuff while managing to not add anything worthwhile to the game and being rushed out like that ? TW is in a better shape in "beta" than the live mess we have right now. We just spent most of the evening spaming macros on the help channel on our server because they managed to break the language settings on the whole server while adding a dog to the shop and every player logging in was wondering what the hell was happening. So unless Titan Weapons damages the player himself instead of the mobs when using a power, it's probably in a better shape than live because right now we're being shot by our own base defenses. Though obviously it's more important to add something to the shop rather than hotfixing that mess.
All i see is that the overall quality of the game is going downhill while the amount of junk landing on the shop every week goes up at a steady pace and the average player probably spends twice more than before on the game. How long is that sustainable ? Time will tell.
Dark armor lover.
The Claws/DA Scrapper guide.
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If lots of people buy it, then the price is right.
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Originally Posted by Merry_Mayhem
I honestly wish people would not do this. You are sending the wrong message to marketing. If lots of people buy this, rewarding them for the idea, Marketing will think the price is right. Only way to get reasonable prices for stuff like this is to not buy it.
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Or maybe it leads to 30 new non-combat pets. The problem with voting with your wallet is that it's an ambiguous vote.
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Originally Posted by Arkham
I don't mind 500 points for the dog, as it is funding the development of a rig for 4-legged critters.
At some point, this will lead to an animal-master Mastermind set. You'll have my points once I get paid. |
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But some of us would prefer if you "hit" us somewhere in the double digits.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
It's a matter of preference. We know we're not going to hit 100% of the people 100% of the time.
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Originally Posted by Red_Addiction
Agreed.Would be nice to have alternate colors for it, like a white or black Shepard. .
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Originally Posted by Commander
Dog really needs the Mastermind controls so that they can be RENAMED and MUST be listed in the pets window. And selectable with maybe some sort of interaction commands with the pets. I understand this is a new item but future items like this NEED features like this to be worth the price.
I'd gladly pay 500 PP per pet if they could be renamed and interacted with. |
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Originally Posted by Blackleviathan
Ditto here with the targetable and renamable too along with inherit controls like an mm for like fetch eat, attack heel follow stay go-to. Maybe more animations like sniffing ground, ear moving listening stuff. Rolling around, occasional barking here and there. But not have it where you have to totally maintain like feed etc. that would be blah.
And yeah the customizing of colors and maybe not like create a vet pet for every breed but have an option in costume to put the skins of breeds there that would cost less than making an entire new vet power. |
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Originally Posted by Ideon
Improvements needed on the dog:
1: Work with Walk power - we have a walk power and a dog power, only make sense to allow players to walk their dog, haha. Dog will probably need new walking animation as well. 2: Allow dog to growl and bark at enemies if player is attacking them. I don't want a dog to just sit there scratching itself while I'm wailing on enemies. Having it bark at enemies would also serve the purpose of non-combat-ness while at least giving it the appearance of showing some interest in what you do. |
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Also, it needs to work with [Walk]. It's a roleplayer power; needs to be useable while walking.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Though I'd still prefer a wolf. And it needs to work with [Walk].
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I'm particularly fond of "tintable" (at the very least), the existing Mastermind commands for follow/go to/stay and the ability to rename the pet, and "must work with [Walk]." And their being an actual MM-type pet that is a click power as opposed to being a toggle (that even turns off while zoning) would be a nice, simple touch as well.
After those basics, different skins for different large breeds and special "dog pet" commands/emotes like heel and fetch would just be icing on the cake, IMHO.
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
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I think that's illegal in 47 states.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
But some of us would prefer if you "hit" us somewhere in the double digits.
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He said the cost was only 1.75 per slot because it was a single character purchase, not because it was purchased in a bundle of 100. Nothing about his post indicated that was a bulk purchase.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
You were the one who brought up the example of a person who spent $175 on costume slots. Bulk pricing applies.
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*sigh*|
Originally Posted by rsclark
He said the cost was only 1.75 per slot because it was a single character purchase, not because it was purchased in a bundle of 100. Nothing about his post indicated that was a bulk purchase.
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How else are you going to interpret:
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| bought 100 costume slots |
And it's not intellectually dishonest to calculate based on the bulk rates as, unlike sales, those are available all the time. If you wanted to you could, of course, calculate things in the most disadvantageous way possible. But unlike some, I prefer to do a reasonable comparison.
All that is planned fails. All that is born dies.
All that is built crumbles. This will always be true.
But memories remain, And that is beautiful.