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My point exactly, these are all tankmages already, though the WS comes with a few too many button mashes to reach peak effectiveness for my tastes. And if you would read my posts, my objection is twofold. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
If all it took to make a tank Mage was defenses and long range attacks, WS, Crab, Fort would all be tank mages.
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1. The game design is such that most mobs fight in and do their best attacks in melee range. By giving a ranged class scrapper level defenses you would literally be going through the game fighting kittens. This can be shown by any of those tankmages you mentioned before, as well as any decent ranged capped blaster.
2. Giving the fury mechanic to the proposed class would obviate the limitation of reducing their damage levels. Remove that mechanic and the class becomes more balanced. If it were a straight trade-off of buff/debuff for defense, keeping damage at defender levels, go for it, but giving the fury mechanic would enable the class to reach blaster level damage in spite of the starting damage levels at defender levels. This is quite clear from the example of how brutes surpass scrappers in damage for a majority of the game (and if you exclude high-end SD scrappers from this, the effectiveness of brutes becomes even more magnified).
None of the posts in support of this new proposed class address either of these points.
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No, my point is to take existing combinations in the game to fulfill this need for an highly survivable ranged damage toon. Not create and balance a brand new AT in order to fulfill a role that is already viable by multiple AT's already.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Exactly the point, really.
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What this suggestion is seeking is a ranged toon that rewards lazy play. The suggestion is not interested in tanking for a team, or grabbing aggro from a squishy player, or even positioning oneself to properly use a cone attack. This suggestion is requesting the ability to attack without any thought put into approach or anything. It doesn't want to drop a debuff that allows it to walk into the spawn unscathed, it doesn't want to have to chase a destiny buff that allows mez protection. All it wants is to toggle up and fire at the mob from a distance, and if anything sneaks up behind it, it doesn't have to worry. Who cares about situational awareness right? In order to balance this AT it would have to do less damage than a defender and in order to make it seem like it isn't doing crap damage, it wants a fury mechanic. Can't wait to get on a team with people this AT appeals to.
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Because you're not thinking outside the box? Honestly, I'd suggest thinking of the general concept of the AT (a sturdy ranged fighter) and start building the AT from there, starting with perhaps the limits of what you think the AT should be able to do... |
It is all well and good that the op claims that yes, it is currently possible, but it is not what he is actually looking for while giving examples of horrible tactics(laying a mine field) and is shocked that here in the archetypes and powers discussion people are actually giving recommendations on how to fulfill his wishes while using what is already available and just changing ones tactics. Shocked!
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First, I look at the AT of Tankers. I like Tankers. No one seems to think they're overpowered. They're the most upfront survivable AT there is and the damage they are capable of isn't bad at all. They may not outstrip other ATs but considering half the time they are in no danger, it more than balances out. Conversely, look at Masterminds. Probably more survivable than Tankers but can do more damage + buff the team some with the downfall of requiring the management of a bunch of pets. So, the way I see it, you've got two flavors of 'Tanking'. The straight-forwardness of Tankers or the more complicated yet more diverse Mastermind. Why not add a new flavor of 'Tanking' that differs from the 2 we have? I mean, we practically have 3 flavors of 'melee' and 3 flavors of 'blasting', this suggested AT can have capabilities lined up with what a Tanker can do but still not overtake what a MM can do with its variety...think, if Tankers can do their thing but with the option of being at range, is it somehow unfair to be able to do that when you've got Scrappers and Brutes able to survive similar levels of punishment but do so much more damage? Same justification for this hypothetical AT. A ranged Tanker, so to speak. With the same general offensive capabilities of a Tanker with the added utility of range. So then why play another melee over this AT? Specifically Tankers? Well, Brutes and Scrappers can still output more damage than a Tanker period. That is why you'd play a Brute/Scrapper in that instance, because they do more overall damage. Why play a Tanker over this new tanker type? Easy, because the main advantages of a Tanker (taunting) would come from being close while this new AT could have advantages by being far. It adds a layer of complexity over a Tanker that makes room for the new utility but puts its tactics at odds with itself in some scenarios. Not only that, but consider that buff and damage auras in armor sets only provide their effects with foes nearby... Inherent power can be something like 'Brace for Fire' or some such where one needs to be planted in place for a time (near the ground) for 'some benefit'....Hmm... Archtype: [Insert Name] Primary: Armor Secondary: Blasts Epics: Some control and melee attacks Inherent: Buster Shot, a passive that boosts range and attack strength while 'Brace for Fire' is unsuppressed. Adds a massive taunt to sniper attacks and makes them uninterruptible. Primary Armor would be straight forward and on level with Brute but with HP of Scrapper. Epics would basically be a version of the melee pools but with the ranged powers replaced by melee powers. The secondary...would be different. On par with a Tanker's melee attacks. The control power (the stun/hold/etc) of each set would be replaced by Confront, a ST auto-hit taunt that has longer range. The Snipe would be upgraded to do heftier damage, taunt in a wide range when used from ranged and be uninterruptible when one has 'braced themselves' for the shot. Sets without snipes will have a power altered into one (Ice Blast and Sonic would probably lose control powers for it). Aim is replaced by 'Brace for Fire', a unique taunt aura toggle that works similar to Fury in that, when you turn it on and *stay still* for a time (the bar will fill up when you stop moving near the ground), the toggle will grant you extra range on your attacks and add 'Buster Shot' damage (a static amount of extra damage, like a proc) to all your ranged attacks. However, once a foe get within melee range (15ish feet) your aura will catch them and the majority of your range is suppressed except your snipe, which will be unable to be interrupted if you have braced yourself. So a hypothetical blast set would be.... Radiation Blast: 1. Neutrino Bolt (ranged minor energy dmg, -def, *special* +range, Buster Shot proc)the range of pretty much all the attacks, with a foe in melee range is 30-45ft. with no foes nearby, it is regular distance 2. X-ray Beam Eyes (ranged moderate energy dmg, -def, *special +range, Buster Shot proc) 3. Irradiate (PBAoE moderate energy dmg, -def, *special* Buster Shot proc) 4. Electron Haze (Cone energy dmg, -def, knockback, *special* +range, Buster Shot proc) 5. Confront (ST long ranged taunt) 6. Brace for Fire [replaces Aim](self toggle, +ToHit, improves Buster Shot proc, PBAoE taunt) before one gets this power, the AT will have very short range all the time and the Buster Shot proc will fire randomly and at a lower frequency. With this power, a 'fury bar' fills up when you stop moving until full, then a 'Braced to Fire' status is gained which boosts range when no foes are nearby, Buster Shot improves in frequency and snipes become uninterruptible. If you move from the first location you braced yourself at, the bar goes down relative to the distance. Nudge yourself left, right or forward a dozen feet and the bar only goes down a little and will quickly refill the instant you stop moving. Bust out into a full Super Speed sprint or TP 200+ ft to another spot and the bar bottoms out. you could actually skip this power if you were fine with the shorter range, didn't feel like dealing with the 'have to stand still a moment' mechanic or don't like using snipes. 7. Proton Volley (Sniper, Extreme energy damage, -def, AoE taunt, *special* +range, Buster Shot proc) 8. Neutron Bomb (Ranged TAoE, moderate energy dmg, -def, *special* +range, Buster Shot proc) 9. ??? |
Sounds like an idea that you have put some thought into and it might just do well in the suggestions and idea's forum. This however is a very far cry from what the op is interested in. This toon sounds like it might actually need to use tactics in order to leverage its strengths. It sounds like it might be interesting to play.
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90% ? Useless ? Seems an exaggeration. I have a AR/Dark corr; I took every power except for black hole. But even that power doesn't change my next statement.|
Originally Posted by Eldagore
AT where 90%of primary or secondary is useless outside of a team |
I will say this about dark (and the AR/dark combo):
>> 100% of both powersets, every single power,
>> all effects/benefits of each power, are helpful
>> to the wielder, solo.
Granted, I'd say there are other powersets that might come close to the 90%. I'm just pointing out there are possibilities that aren't huge sticks coming out of back, or squid thing.
I'll be astonished if they ever introduce a new AT into the game at this stage in its life. Has a dev (in the last year) even hinted at any additional AT?
Here's a suggestion for a new EAT at some point: Shapeshifter. I put the post in another thread, so here's a link to it.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...6&postcount=37
I honestly haven't thought out what each form's specifics would be, and we'd definitely need some kind of ranged attack for at least a few forms. We could even throw in a Warwolf form. I suppose the Secondary set would be sort of a hybrid between Willpower and Super Reflexes.
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It's a platypus. DUH! |
Originally Posted by Fugacity
So...if it looks like a duck, and it acts like a duck, then it's obviously a new and unique species that is unassociated with a duck in any way and we'd be obtuse, unimaginative, and full of ourselves to even suggest that it's a duck?
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50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Also, here is Von Krieger's idea for a Hellfire Elementalist EAT. While it's not exactly the same request, he has an interesting take on how to make a range/armor AT.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Right. Now explain to me why anyone even bothers making Super Reflexes characters if it can be so easily emulated by IO bonuses. Or why even play armored ATs when you can just make the correct build to emulate an armor set.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
The fact that you can already make these builds in game by correct building and slotting proves that you do not have imagination. Not me.
Just because a Dual Pistols Blaster can't actually take Super Reflexes...does not mean you can't build for defense and play it off as a Dual Pistols, super reflexes character. |
I'll answer that for you. Because IOs, bonuses, incarnate powers and the proper build *do not* emulate an armor set.
It's as simple as that.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
It would seem that people are forgetting that when the brutes, masterminds etc, were conceived, it was for a separate game. Yes they are available to both factions now, but I imagine they would have approached the creative process differently had they thought cross faction possible. If we are going to make a new AT, make it something different.
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If you think you can make something different, please do post an idea because all the bases are covered (that is, there is crowd control, there is debuffers, there is buffers, there is tankers and there is DPS...not really anything 'different' you can make of anything except various combinations of these). And no, that isn't saying nothing else could ever be added. It's the style and playstyle that varies with ATs, not specifically the role.
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| Sounds like an idea that you have put some thought into and it might just do well in the suggestions and idea's forum. This however is a very far cry from what the op is interested in. This toon sounds like it might actually need to use tactics in order to leverage its strengths. It sounds like it might be interesting to play. |
I still wouldn't know what to do with the nukes. It probably wouldn't be right having 2 crash powers on one AT (the godmode armor and the nuke)...was actually thinking a downgraded no-crash mini-nuke for every blast set with an interruptible cast (that is eliminated if you brace yourself) might replace them but honestly, most people don't like snipes and stuff...
I still dont get it... why cant you just make a defender/corruptor?
I mean... there's no reason you cant just sit in melee as those AT's.
And you can get armor powers from the APP/PPP's sure you wont have em at lvl 1 but you will have them from 35-50. Even tankers and scrappers dont start the game with their full array of defenses. They typically dont have the basics covered till lvl 16 or higher and still don't "fill out" till 25 and beyond when they have SOs
I even showed, in a previous post, an example that I can make roughly ANY defender with somewhere around 21% to EVERYTHING and 23% resistance to smashing and lethal if nothing else by lvl 25 with just SO's. Those numbers go higher and have broader coverage with primaries designed to improve those aspects like force field, sonic, time, dark miasma, storm summoning, or traps. Corruptors having smaller base values would obviously have slightly lower numbers but the same can be done with them. Again this is without IOs at all.
As a further example a dark/dark defender with ONLY SO's can achieve on the order of 29% defense to EVERYTHING, 66% resistance to s/l, 31% to energy, 54% to negative, 23% to toxic and 31% to psi. And thats not even factoring in the tohit debuffs from the blasts or darkest night. That's AMAZING mitigation on SO's alone. Can you imagine that same character with IOs? Similar mitigation can be achieved to varying degrees depending on powerset choices but all within a similar threshold.
What you're saying you want is there , in game, right now. What you actually want will likely never come to pass because what you actually want is blaster primaries coupled with scrapper secondaries. I could be wrong but I just don't foresee that happening.
Melee types have mitigation sets like they do because they have little to no option but to engage foes in melee and thus put themselves at risk to greater harm from the stronger melee attacks. Ranged characters have less mitigation because they are not subject to melee attacks as often due to have the option to deal their damage from range. What is the point of having ranged attacks if you want to stay in melee and just let everything beat on you? I honestly believe despite your claims, that you actually want to stay at range and pew pew without concern for mez affects and incoming damage, with mez affects probably being the REAL key here.
Only controllers have an option to get comprehensive mez protection and they dont get that till 35 the earliest. But controllers dont have all the pretty blasts you want and even the blasts they can get dont do enough damage for your taste without containment being set up. I'm sorry I just dont believe you when you say you want a low damage ranged attacker with armor set mitigation. You can already have that. What you WANT is a full selection of blast or assault sets with scrapper styled armor sets which include high values of mitgation and mez protection. I'll be shocked if you even have a ghost of a chance of that ever happening in this game.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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This just reinforces the point that all you really want is to be overpowered.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Right. Now explain to me why anyone even bothers making Super Reflexes characters if it can be so easily emulated by IO bonuses. Or why even play armored ATs when you can just make the correct build to emulate an armor set.
I'll answer that for you. Because IOs, bonuses, incarnate powers and the proper build *do not* emulate an armor set. It's as simple as that. |
You want a purely ranged character with scrapper survivability.
I'll be the first to admit I would love to be able to "build" my own AT and powersets.
If I could I'd have an AT that has the domination inherent, with a primary and secondary that looks something like this:
Subdue
Dominate
Telekinetic Blast
Confuse
Mass Hypnosis
Telekinesis
Total Domination
Psychic Scream
Psychic Wail
Mind Over Body
Fast Healing
Power Build Up
Indomitable Will (toggle version that fortunatas have)
Quick Recovery
Mask Presence
Link Minds
Drain Psyche
Mass Confusion
It looks fairly similar to a fortunata doesnt it?
Sure it would be nice if we could tailor things to our specific wants and desires but that almost always throws balance out the window.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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This is exactly true, I've played Khelds for awhile and peacebringers have that ranged/armor feel. I could see why it's not mentioned here though; simply because it seems like there is a strong desire for an ranged/armor AT that has more "theme" availibility. PBs, much like VEATs are locked into their own specific lore.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
I'm surprised no one mentioned Peacebringers... with all the changes they got it sounds exactly like what you want... except you can't customize the powers.
That said... Human Form Only Peace Bringer focused on the ranged attacks with Perma-Light Form and the right set bonuses has about 30% resistance to psi and 85% resistance to everything else. Basically perma Inner Light for solid ranged damage. Hell it's even got some mez protection without clarion and the ability to heal itself and others if you're so inclined. I'm currently building one right now >_> and she's been a blast to play so far. I basically just charge in and blast away letting resistance shields (till i get light form) and reform essence take care of the incoming damage. |
Alright...this is my somewhat serious attempt at what a Ranged/Defense AT could look like.
Blapper
HP Base: 1017.4
HP Max: 1606.4
Damage Scale: .700
Range Scale?: assuming blasters are 1.00...blappers would be .75 (meaning that if a blasters attack has a 100' range, the blappers attack would have a 75' range)
"defense" scale: .5 (Tankers are 1.00 and Scrappers are .75) (Regen and WP would have to be looked at more closely)
No knockback protection.
No Mez Protection Toggles.
(armor set toggles or clicks that currently have mez protection now grant a bonus to the Blappers Inherent ability)
Toggles will be dropped if mezzed. (not just surpressed...except for current mez protection toggles-see inherent ability)
Inherent Power: Blapping
All attacks executed on an enemy within the melee damage range of 7' or less adds .5 mez protection (hold, stun, sleep) that lasts for 5s. Stackable. 3 points of protection max. Each additional attack restarts the 5s timer.
Current armor toggles that offer mez protection offer the Blapper a bonus to Blapping. All attacks executed with in the melee damage range of 7' or less now adds 1 mez protection that lasts for 5s. (so instead of taking 6 attacks to get to the 3 point max...it only takes 3.
Do you think that would be "balanced" with a primary blast and secondary armor? Not trolling, looking for an honest answer.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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Now put a shield in the hands of that Defender/Corruptor...or cover them in ice or fire or rock.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
I still dont get it... why cant you just make a defender/corruptor?
I mean... there's no reason you cant just sit in melee as those AT's. And you can get armor powers from the APP/PPP's sure you wont have em at lvl 1 but you will have them from 35-50. Even tankers and scrappers dont start the game with their full array of defenses. They typically dont have the basics covered till lvl 16 or higher and still don't "fill out" till 25 and beyond when they have SOs I even showed, in a previous post, an example that I can make roughly ANY defender with somewhere around 21% to EVERYTHING and 23% resistance to smashing and lethal if nothing else by lvl 25 with just SO's. Those numbers go higher and have broader coverage with primaries designed to improve those aspects like force field, sonic, time, dark miasma, storm summoning, or traps. Corruptors having smaller base values would obviously have slightly lower numbers but the same can be done with them. Again this is without IOs at all. As a further example a dark/dark defender with ONLY SO's can achieve on the order of 29% defense to EVERYTHING, 66% resistance to s/l, 31% to energy, 54% to negative, 23% to toxic and 31% to psi. And thats not even factoring in the tohit debuffs from the blasts or darkest night. That's AMAZING mitigation on SO's alone. Can you imagine that same character with IOs? Similar mitigation can be achieved to varying degrees depending on powerset choices but all within a similar threshold. |
All I'm saying is theme, style and playstyle go a lot deeper than set bonuses and mitigation numbers. And you can pretend a lot of stuff in this game, doesn't quite validate your point, however. We could all pretend to have dual pistol blast back when Thugs masterminds were introduced, didn't mean a comprehensive set shouldn't have been made.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
This just reinforces the point that all you really want is to be overpowered.
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Or maybe you just like making argumentative quips on message boards that you think are clever?
...but no, I'm not looking to be an overpowered purely ranged character with scrapper survivability...hell, if you were listening to anything I said, you'd know exactly this because I *said* it out loud...to your face and in plain words, even...
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Unfortunately pretending is often required. Power customization and costume auras have given us great tools to give our concepts life. You have to understand however that there are limits as to what the devs can give each AT to work with mechanically. And a new AT can't simply be thrown together purely for those who wish it for concept. There are balance factors to consider and development time and resources as well. It is up to you to make come up with a character concept within the confines of the game mechanics. It is not up to the devs to make the game mechanics conform to your character concepts. Though I will agree the devs can do more to help you make your concept thematically (within the confines of the game mechanics).|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Now put a shield in the hands of that Defender/Corruptor...or cover them in ice or fire or rock.
All I'm saying is theme, style and playstyle go a lot deeper than set bonuses and mitigation numbers. And you can pretend a lot of stuff in this game, doesn't quite validate your point, however. We could all pretend to have dual pistol blast back when Thugs masterminds were introduced, didn't mean a comprehensive set shouldn't have been made. You'll probably never know what anyone really wants, just delude yourself into thinking you're some type of Sherlock Holmes or something... Or maybe you just like making argumentative quips on message boards that you think are clever? ...but no, I'm not looking to be an overpowered purely ranged character with scrapper survivability...hell, if you were listening to anything I said, you'd know exactly this because I *said* it out loud...to your face and in plain words, even... |
You can say it over and over that you don't want an "overpowered purely ranged character with scrapper survivability" I simply do not believe you. You are asking for exactly that no matter what you say about "adjusting caps or numbers".
What "cant" you make with a defender/corruptor as far as a ranged character goes? From what I see you can't make things like Fire Blast/Willpower or Energy Blast/Invulnerability or Dual Pistols/Regen or say Stone Assault/Stone Armor. Those examples are very telling. You cannot make these combos for balance reasons and no tweaking/capping of numbers will "fix it". Ranged AT's do not have access to these sets for good reason.
I will say I would not mind seeing more APP's though. More things to match thematically... like say a Fire Mastery for defenders/corruptors to go with fire blast thermals so they can have Fire Shield as a thematically appropriate shield for example. Or say a Munitions Mastery for the dual pistol/traps def/cors but I honestly believe that's the most you can hope for.
You are simply never going to get armor sets like the scrappers have for a ranged character like defenders and corruptors. In all honestly what I think you want (and I don't blame you) is blasters to have their secondaries overhauled into more survivability sets and I personally would be all for that though I don't anticipate that ever happening. Blasters, to me, have always felt like i was playing with only a blast set and no secondary because outside of one or two powers the secondaries did absolute squat. The melee abilities seem ridiculous to me (though I am sure it makes sense to the devs and other players) for an AT that is so fragile. If it were me I'd overhaul the secondaries to include shields and that might actually appease you. But again we aren't going to see that happen and that's for balance reasons and/or vision of the devs reasons.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Quite contrary to what recent dev discussions have told. I believe one dev is interested in a type of melee/(de)buff type AT mix and the fact that ATs can be sold on the market, it only increases possible merchandise as well as the usability of any new sets created.|
Originally Posted by Kyriani
Unfortunately pretending is often required. Power customization and costume auras have given us great tools to give our concepts life. You have to understand however that there are limits as to what the devs can give each AT to work with mechanically. And a new AT can't simply be thrown together purely for those who wish it for concept.
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| You can say it over and over that you don't want an "overpowered purely ranged character with scrapper survivability" I simply do not believe you. You are asking for exactly that no matter what you say about "adjusting caps or numbers". |
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
That said, although I support the idea for such an AT because it can provide new and unique tactics/playstyles, it wouldn't be something I'd personally play. I'm still seeking my melee/(de)buff character concept. There are so many ways you can make such a combination work well and the ranged/armor AT really is no different.
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If anything, I'm supporting such an AT because, not only has it been proved that it isn't overpowered, but because it gives the devs opportunity to build a free-concept AT from scratch which has never been done. It won't be bogged down by faulty balance mechanics, forced themes, or legacy expectations that hinder the balancing of the old ATs. It'd be an opportunity for the devs to make something fun and unique with the new tech they have developed thus far.
Beyond that, I believe this game is far too imaginative and flexible to be held back by the likes of you and those who oppose the idea of new ATs. That is the main reason I'm even posting in this thread.
You think it's impossible to create an AT because of time/resources constraints, would be redundant, have to be pre-nerfed, need to suck and be unfun? No, impossible is to swan dive into a volcano and come out of a sea of lava with *more* meat on your bones vs a dissolved skeleton. Making a new AT that is fun and balanced work in CoX is far from impossible and I can attempt to defend that claim with suggestions that can work. The only means you have made thus far to counter my posts are unsupported claims and talking down of player concepts.
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Pffft. I want it, and my playstyle is to get into melee.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
This just reinforces the point that all you really want is to be overpowered.
You want a purely ranged character with scrapper survivability. |
Oh yes, I bet Dual Pistols/Regen or Dual Pistols/Ninjitsu or Dual Pistols/Super Reflexes is extremely overpowered.
Let's see, a Blast set that encourages getting into melee, and is considered by many to be one of the worst sets around.
That said, I'd be more than willing to just have them come up with a Dual Pistols (using the same animations) tree for Widows or Soldiers.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
A reverse MM of some sort. Instead of pets doing the damage, you do the damage and pets buff you. Call it Protector or something. .
I'd like a ranged character with armor. I built a PB exactly for this back in the day. It fell short because of the penalties Khelds had to work with.
Now with the changes, my first character, Solarstar, has his PB counterpart. But my other blasters don't have their PB counterpart. (I only have 3 complaints. The crash on Lightform, the IO/power investment to get it perma, and melee attacks blow the ranged ones away. I can deal with all of it. There's a reason my PB is my first 50 since Freedom launched.)
But if Paragon gives me a PB with dark, fire, ice, rad, dual pistols, AR, earth, electric, psychic, or sonic powers, I be a very happy camper indeed. My SoA is a nice replacement for AR, and my Widow does a decent psychic replacement. But my dislike of redside makes leveling them painful.
Then, when I want to play a melee character, I'd play my tankers or scrappers. 
So in relation to the OP, I'd support a new AT. Essentially, make it PB without shapeshifting and flavor the powers appropriately. That seems to me to strike a happy medium. And it has the advantage of a good work to result ratio.
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This is weird, but I like it. It's kinda like Lord Recluse at the end of the STF. Instead of having Pylons, you can have pets buffing you. One pet for a damage buff, one pet for endurance buff, one pet for accuracy buff and the last pet for a defense buff/regen. The pets cannot attack but can be killed.
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Originally Posted by Dz131
A reverse MM of some sort. Instead of pets doing the damage, you do the damage and pets buff you. Call it Protector or something. .
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lvl 50 - Elec/WP/Mu Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - Dark/EA/Soul Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - EM/Nin/Soul Mastery Stalker
New Toons
lvl 21 - StJ/WP Stalker
How about a Mez/Armor AT and call it Crowd Control. It will have all 4mez, 3melee, powerbuild up, and a taunt as a primary.
lvl 50 - Elec/WP/Mu Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - Dark/EA/Soul Mastery Stalker, lvl 50 - EM/Nin/Soul Mastery Stalker
New Toons
lvl 21 - StJ/WP Stalker
I would like a mastermind in which your one pet gets buffed and becomes stronger and stronger with each upgrade. Basically 1 super pet.
OR
How about a sidekick.. Again same concept as the pet but he, she, it levels up as you do. Its one level lower then you. You basically use the costume creator to create the look for your sidekick.
Sidekicks would come in different categories. Tank, Scrapper, Controller, Blaster, ETC.
Maybe you could control the sidekick. For example your a Martial Arts toon with a MA sidekick. You click a hold power in your tray and your sidekick then goes and puts or attempts to put your target into a full nelson or whatever this now allows you to hit that target for extra damage.
Maybe you want to be a fire blaster demon with a fire tank or brute demon side kick. 2 Soldier range blasters where instead of you doing full auto your side kick opens up with some large machine gun rambo style.
Nutshell they do the standard npc fight chain until you command them to do some key attacks.
Another thing that would be nice is if your IO set bonuses would effect them as well. This way if you wanted to do 2 range blasters maybe your sidekick might start off with inherit range defense that you can improve with IO set bonuses.
OR yet again allow you to slot IOs in the pet power. Pretty much like slotting in your build. But they might be limited in bonuses or something.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
With the coming of the gunslinger costume there should have been a new secondary that went with dual pistols, the only good idea I could think of was 'Whip':
BLASTER/ CORR SECONDARY: WHIP
Cracking Whip: Level 1 Close, Minor Damage
Lashing Whip: Level 2 Close, Moderate Damage
Binding Whip: Level 6 Close, Moderate Damaging Hold
Strangulation: Level 8 Close, High Damage
Sweeping Whip: Level 12 Close, Minor Damage, Chance to knock down
Strengthen Whip: Level 18 Increases whip damage, also emulates 3rd level Street Justice combo power
Not Enough: Level 26 Close, Lashing combination, chance for High Damage and increased combo
Note: unlike other secondary powersets this one would stop at level 26 and you would get no more secondary powers after said level.
Probably not what you're looking for, but I think it would be awesome!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vitality
Alright...this is my somewhat serious attempt at what a Ranged/Defense AT could look like.
Blapper HP Base: 1017.4 HP Max: 1606.4 Damage Scale: .700 Range Scale?: assuming blasters are 1.00...blappers would be .75 (meaning that if a blasters attack has a 100' range, the blappers attack would have a 75' range) "defense" scale: .5 (Tankers are 1.00 and Scrappers are .75) (Regen and WP would have to be looked at more closely) No knockback protection. No Mez Protection Toggles. (armor set toggles or clicks that currently have mez protection now grant a bonus to the Blappers Inherent ability) Toggles will be dropped if mezzed. (not just surpressed...except for current mez protection toggles-see inherent ability) Inherent Power: Blapping All attacks executed on an enemy within the melee damage range of 7' or less adds .5 mez protection (hold, stun, sleep) that lasts for 5s. Stackable. 3 points of protection max. Each additional attack restarts the 5s timer. Current armor toggles that offer mez protection offer the Blapper a bonus to Blapping. All attacks executed with in the melee damage range of 7' or less now adds 1 mez protection that lasts for 5s. (so instead of taking 6 attacks to get to the 3 point max...it only takes 3. |
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