I'm surprised no one mentioned Peacebringers... with all the changes they got it sounds exactly like what you want... except you can't customize the powers.
That said...
Human Form Only Peace Bringer focused on the ranged attacks with Perma-Light Form and the right set bonuses has about 30% resistance to psi and 85% resistance to everything else. Basically perma Inner Light for solid ranged damage. Hell it's even got some mez protection without clarion and the ability to heal itself and others if you're so inclined.
I'm currently building one right now >_> and she's been a blast to play so far.
I basically just charge in and blast away letting resistance shields (till i get light form) and reform essence take care of the incoming damage.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Honestly, do we really have another "unique" AT left?
The only one that I think of is a melee/support AT.
I don't think we'll see another core AT but we may see another Epic AT like VEAT or HEAT with fixed sets.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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This. |
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Fire/traps corruptor. There should be no setting up. All the powers in traps help you just as much as anyone on your team.
If you think traps is best played by setting up a mine field, you have never seen a decent trapper in action. Ffg gives you mez protection. If you can't softcap a trapper, you need to go back to build school. All you need to remember is to drop acid mortar and pgt as soon as they are recharged and you are good. Everything else is fluff. Want a little pseudo resistance, drop seekers on the spawn before you head in. Taking a bit more damage than you are used to, drop a triage beacon. Want to drop the recharge of a hard target, web nade the crap out of them. But you don't have to. You can just fireball everything in the face. I rarely even use trip mine anymore, don't like the interrupt time. It is exactly the type of experience you are looking for, but are ignoring it because you falsely believe you need to set up a kill zone and pull the spawn to you. Set up the kill zone right at their feet. Be in there before the tank, let the scrappers mop up your leftovers. It's no different than targetting the Sapper first, or making sure the problem mobs are taken out in priority. |
This describes what you say want to a "T", Eldagore, with the sole exception that sleep will still get through FFG, but one hit(or breakfree) and you're no longer mezzed.
I've played a trapper from 1-50, and if you spend 5 minutes placing a fancy little minefield then you're doing it wrong. You can open up with seekers, they work much like Phantom Army in drawing the mob's attention away from you, and then they debuff the mob. Dropping seekers too much work? Then simply throw out some caltrops and blast away. With your FFG already out and running, you can choose to either blast them from a distance or run up point blank, drop PGT, Acid Mortar, and then blast them, but no matter how you do it you will like it.
Trust me on this one.
There's no need for the devs designing and testing a new AT, make a Traps Corruptor or Defender and smile.
Quote:
Sure! Melee/Support! Ranged/Defense!
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
Honestly, do we really have another "unique" AT left?
The only one that I think of is a melee/support AT. I don't think we'll see another core AT but we may see another Epic AT like VEAT or HEAT with fixed sets. |
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Quote:
You, and others suggesting work arounds, are being intentionally obtuse.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
It is exactly the type of experience you are looking for, but are ignoring it because you falsely believe you need to set up a kill zone and pull the spawn to you. |
Okay, so what if someone wants to make a character that uses 2 pistols, can regenerate super fast and cannot be 'killed'? You know what experience matches that to a T? Dual Pistols/Regeneration or Willpower. Want to know what is just a cheap substitute? DP/Energy blast with +regen IO bonuses and Rise of the Phoenix from epic pools. Or Empathy/Pain Domination + Dual Pistols and Soul Transfer.
What if someone wants a character that shoots ice powers but also covers their body in stone/granite? Or a character that shoots fire and carries a shield? Or fires arrows and covered in flames?
It's nice to build work-arounds to fulfill a concept that is otherwise impossible, but that's not what this thread is for, now is it?
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A TankMage?|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Okay, so what if someone wants to make a character that uses 2 pistols, can regenerate super fast and cannot be 'killed'? You know what experience matches that to a T?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
It's nice to build work-arounds to fulfill a concept that is otherwise impossible, but that's not what this thread is for, now is it?
|
Quote:
I still say a perma-light form peacebringer is exactly what you're asking for in function.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
You, and others suggesting work arounds, are being intentionally obtuse.
Okay, so what if someone wants to make a character that uses 2 pistols, can regenerate super fast and cannot be 'killed'? You know what experience matches that to a T? Dual Pistols/Regeneration or Willpower. Want to know what is just a cheap substitute? DP/Energy blast with +regen IO bonuses and Rise of the Phoenix from epic pools. Or Empathy/Pain Domination + Dual Pistols and Soul Transfer. What if someone wants a character that shoots ice powers but also covers their body in stone/granite? Or a character that shoots fire and carries a shield? Or fires arrows and covered in flames? It's nice to build work-arounds to fulfill a concept that is otherwise impossible, but that's not what this thread is for, now is it? |
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Quote:
Yup.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
I still say a perma-light form peacebringer is exactly what you're asking for.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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How is a theoretical Dual Pistols/Regeneration character a Tankmage (ie overpowered) and yet the existing PeaceBringer, Arachnos Soldier or IO'd Traps Defender not? They aren't. Ranged/Armor characters already exist without destroying game balance, it just that they do so in some very limited conceptual forms. |
Originally Posted by Fugacity
A TankMage?
So rather than work with what is available we should beg the devs to create an entirely new AT that for all intents and purposes is a TankMage, but we dare not call it such, as doing so may offend the thin-skinned? How obtuse. |
If you dont want a very visible gun, or force field drone or fixed colour blasts, you're out of luck.
The raw ammunition is already there in the form of Ranged sets and Armour sets that are balanced against each other. Putting them into a new archetype and scaling each accordingly (eg Defender damage, Blaster HP, Scrapper level armor numbers?) would probably be less work than inventing a whole new epic archetype with very limited themes.
Once the basic archetype is set up, its not as if Energy Blast or Fire Armor or any other set would need to be individually tweaked, or reanimated, or anything time consuming like that.
I dont see anything wrong with suggesting that - it seems like a very solid investment of developer time to me in terms of what it opens up for players.
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except a peacebringer doesnt use any of the 12 blast sets i would like to play in this style, or any future sets they come up with. it also requires an IO build, and a lvl 38 power.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
I still say a perma-light form peacebringer is exactly what you're asking for in function.
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Quote:
i think I said this before, but I have played traps. i have played most everything, i have been sub'd since I2. yes, it is fun. Sleep still get's through, there is still some set up time, and the dmg is sorta meh without the set up time. Scourge helps, but in the end, it is a corruptor.|
Originally Posted by Fugacity
This.
This describes what you say want to a "T", Eldagore, with the sole exception that sleep will still get through FFG, but one hit(or breakfree) and you're no longer mezzed. I've played a trapper from 1-50, and if you spend 5 minutes placing a fancy little minefield then you're doing it wrong. You can open up with seekers, they work much like Phantom Army in drawing the mob's attention away from you, and then they debuff the mob. Dropping seekers too much work? Then simply throw out some caltrops and blast away. With your FFG already out and running, you can choose to either blast them from a distance or run up point blank, drop PGT, Acid Mortar, and then blast them, but no matter how you do it you will like it. Trust me on this one. There's no need for the devs designing and testing a new AT, make a Traps Corruptor or Defender and smile. |
I propose a fury mechanic for two reasons. 1, it allows solid dmg to be built up to. 2, it keeps the At from being a tank mage because of the fury decay. The same reasons brutes dont run away from scrappers hands down in the dmg game.
people keep suggesting work arounds. I thought I mentioned in the OP, but, I mean I have played "workarounds" and I think it is time to introduce this playstyle as an out of the box AT with access to a dozen blast powersets, and dozens of possible combinations of powersets.
Look at it this way...defenders and corruptors share powersets, like almost exactly. Why did the devs bother with this? because it is AMAZING what simple AT modifiers and inherent mechanics can do to playstyle. sonic/fire defender =! fire/sonic corruptor.
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Quote:
This. And to the person responding to the cant be "killed", note killed is in quotes and he refers to it in concept, and then goes on to show rise of the pheonix as a workaround. he didnt actually mean litterally cant be killed like a tank mage.
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
You, and others suggesting work arounds, are being intentionally obtuse.
Okay, so what if someone wants to make a character that uses 2 pistols, can regenerate super fast and cannot be 'killed'? You know what experience matches that to a T? Dual Pistols/Regeneration or Willpower. Want to know what is just a cheap substitute? DP/Energy blast with +regen IO bonuses and Rise of the Phoenix from epic pools. Or Empathy/Pain Domination + Dual Pistols and Soul Transfer. What if someone wants a character that shoots ice powers but also covers their body in stone/granite? Or a character that shoots fire and carries a shield? Or fires arrows and covered in flames? It's nice to build work-arounds to fulfill a concept that is otherwise impossible, but that's not what this thread is for, now is it? |
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Quote:
Sorry, I think as this play style is already in the game, and is easily achievable, i would be more interested in new AT's that give a more unique game experience than what is already available.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
You, and others suggesting work arounds, are being intentionally obtuse.
Okay, so what if someone wants to make a character that uses 2 pistols, can regenerate super fast and cannot be 'killed'? You know what experience matches that to a T? Dual Pistols/Regeneration or Willpower. Want to know what is just a cheap substitute? DP/Energy blast with +regen IO bonuses and Rise of the Phoenix from epic pools. Or Empathy/Pain Domination + Dual Pistols and Soul Transfer. What if someone wants a character that shoots ice powers but also covers their body in stone/granite? Or a character that shoots fire and carries a shield? Or fires arrows and covered in flames? It's nice to build work-arounds to fulfill a concept that is otherwise impossible, but that's not what this thread is for, now is it? |
Your DP/regen? Traps would again be more suitable as with a couple triage beacons out, that is basically what you are. Stone/ice/ice tanker fits your other example. Fire/shield/fire scrapper your next, arrow/fire/fire blaster your last. Add in incarnate powers and the lines blur even more.
OP: it's an idea that has been floated around a few times. Until it is realized you at least have a few options that can give you the play experience you are looking for. If it is obtuse for pointing them out, so be it. I hope you find what you are looking for.
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it is only obtuse in that everyone making comments here is assuming I do not know about all the suggested AT's and powersets already, that i havent tried them out once or thrice. I apreciate the community opinions and feedback, but I did not make a "which At/power combo for xxxxx" thread, I am suggesting a whole new AT.|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Sorry, I think as this play style is already in the game, and is easily achievable, i would be more interested in new AT's that give a more unique game experience than what is already available.
Your DP/regen? Traps would again be more suitable as with a couple triage beacons out, that is basically what you are. Stone/ice/ice tanker fits your other example. Fire/shield/fire scrapper your next, arrow/fire/fire blaster your last. Add in incarnate powers and the lines blur even more. OP: it's an idea that has been floated around a few times. Until it is realized you at least have a few options that can give you the play experience you are looking for. If it is obtuse for pointing them out, so be it. I hope you find what you are looking for. |
You have fianally given your opinion on it, namely you would rather see something else first. I respect your opinion, but disagree with it as I think the payoff in terms of sheer number of character concepts to be had for the required developer time is a real bargain. I also feel many posters here have discounted just how different an AT like this would play compared to what we already have.
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Not me Eldagore, they made Brutes didnt they? A shade of grey between tankers and scrappers. If things just kept getting looked at an idea that may look like another blaster/blapper could be a shade of grey between controller/stalker.
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Originally Posted by Eldagore
it is only obtuse in that everyone making comments here is assuming I do not know about all the suggested AT's and powersets already, that i havent tried them out once or thrice
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
If this is about what the people want and getting behind a ranged/defense AT I must say I don't support it and the people giving solutions for how you can achieve it in game seem to be against it as well. There are so many other things I would rather have in game than a new AT, as far as I look at it the AT would either be gimped from a min/max perspective or uber and it being the later would be the only reason I would consider it just to keep up with the joneses.
""Bottom line- the current ranged dmg AT's have too many gimicks to allow success. blasters have positioning, hoverblasting, aggro managment, etc. Doms have the domination mechanic. Corruptors and defenders have primaries/secondaries focused on team play. I want an AT that can simply be a self contained straight forward fighter- that uses the ranged dmg sets as a means to fight. ""
I am not going to lie and I am going to be straightforward. Such an AT does exist. Widows, either Fortunata or Night Widows, and CRAB VEATS, are the TANK MAGES of this game, and the best at it, or IMO, more so than any other AT in PVE in this game.
Serious defensive numbers, mez protection, AoE controls, ST controls, confuse, one of the fastest and lethal ST DPS in the whole game (Night Widow--read TopDocs post on that), AoE damage, ranged damage, nigh unkillable, and strong buffs for themselves and the whole team.... I mean, seriously. A VEAT is downright way too easy and powerful in this game.
Fortunatas had to be nerfed in PvP because they were just too powerful in dmg and Defense, but in PVE they are still just as powerful as they were.
Nightwidows DPS competes in this game for the top spots in ST damage among melee dmg dealers.
Crabs are just ridiculously sick and with pets to boot.
Fortunata, a controller/a blaster/and a freaking defensive monster, with very good damge potential all in one nice package.
Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eldagore
Here is a list of ranged blast sets:
Fire blast ice blast dark blast psi blast rad blast archery assault rifle beam rifle dual pistols electric blast sonic blast energy blast here is what you have offered me: Crab spider AT where 90%of primary or secondary is useless outside of a team Shapeshift mechanics where the high dmg output is saddled with a major survivability drawback, or vice versa. human form still gets mezzed and killed easily. Keybinds are needed for efficient play. not really a simple playstyle. high lvl IO build This is why i suggested this in the first place. you have offered me the same crappy conventional workarounds to my dilema that have been around for years. There are 12 blast powersets(outside of epic AT's) and the only way to play them is to either play a high risk blaster, or a team AT. I am looking for a ranged attack scrapper or brute, to put it simply. I have played your suggestions. They are fun in their own right. They are good AT's, I wouldnt change them. they are not what i am looking for. I want to make "Captain blasto" and not have to have giant legs coming out of his back, or turn into a space squid. I want to have a secondary that has more then 3 powers that do something for me solo. I do not want to rely on a lvl 50 IO build to achieve these goals. basically, i am fully aware of the conventional wisdom and I want something new that can achieve this goal out of the box without gimicks or drawbacks or the need for a high level Io build that draws from as many pool powers as possible and uses unconventional slotting and power picks as IO mules. |
Not to start a fight but have you ever used a crab ... Yes several , 3 of 8, of the secondary do buff team mates when on a team but they also buff you on a team or off. And that is just the initial soldier set.. the crab set has 4 and not one benefits anyone but the crab. So basically you can load your build with ranged attacks and build a very nice defense for youeself when soloing .. and if you do team you assist your team mates. As for the primary where you get the idea that any of the AoE attacks, melee and the one debuff (venom] works out to 90% being team oriented I have no idea. I soloed with my crab all the way to 50 . between teaming and had no issue dealing with anything including elite bosses.
I also enjoy my Blasters but honestly I sort of doubt they will ever go for your idea. It would be great but I can see them discussing it being too powerful and wanting to nerf this or that to kee it equal to all the others.
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I could see it happening, but to balance it, there would most likely be some serious adjustments to the modifiers.|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
I also enjoy my Blasters but honestly I sort of doubt they will ever go for your idea. It would be great but I can see them discussing it being too powerful and wanting to nerf this or that to kee it equal to all the others.
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Something with the defense of a tank would most likely do less damage than a defender. Something with the defenses of a scrapper would probably do less damage than a corr, but more than a defender.
The thing is, the only thing that makes defender and corr damage worthwhile IMO are the debuffs/buffs. It would be too much of a one sided trade to give up the buffs/debuffs for an armor set when doing sub optimal damage.
Now maybe have an AT that has stalker lvl defenses and hit points, but closer to blaster damage and it might be something I could get behind. Problem is, that is already quite similar and possible with veats as explained numerous times.
In the end, although it may be an interesting idea, it has for the most part already been addressed and doesn't need a brand new AT to make it achievable.
Put some IO investment into a Blaster or Dominatior and you'll have your answer.
The devs aren't going to create a brand new AT based on ranged damage and survivability because:
A) It already exists in VEATS.
and
B) You can build a Blaster to be very survivable and pump out tons of damage already.
Example: There's a video floating around of a Fire/Mental Blaster soloing a Giant Monster. Yes, a GIANT MONSTER was soloed....by a BLASTER.....before Incarnate powers even existed. Now if that isn't survivable and damaging enough.....I don't know what to tell you.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Yep, that's right Claws. However, Silverado used tactics and carefully thought through what exactly he wanted to do, and how to go about it. The Op is not interested in that sort of playstyle for this AT.
I gotta say that it would be an interesting idea, however, it is extremely overpowered with the way that the game dynamics are currently set up.
A vast majority of mobs in the game, from low end to high, do most of their damage and special effects in melee range. That is why the melee range ATs enjoy armor and at least some form of status effect resistance. The proposed AT would completely invalidate the above model, and would literally bypass by creation any real danger presented to them. They would enjoy the lower level blaster overpowered feeling for their entire career.
Can any ranged AT achieve this type of feeling with time, effort and influence. Absolutely. However, if this AT were to be introduced, what would be the point anymore. The comparison between scrappers and brutes in the original post is what makes this laughable. Yes, a scrapper can still out-damage a brute, over a long-time, due to way the mechanics of the sets work, but by-and-large a brute will out-damage most scrappers in most situations, and oh by the way, enjoys better survivability as well.
Yes, what you are asking for is a TANKMAGE, made so by the game dynamics.
Quote:
That is the point. The OP is not interested in putting in any effort and wants a tankmage right out of the box.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Yep, that's right Claws. However, Silverado used tactics and carefully thought through what exactly he wanted to do, and how to go about it. The Op is not interested in that sort of playstyle for this AT.
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Is this not what the Epic ATs were made for?
The one AT who can do it all?
BUT...
it still isnt quite what I am after. Again, i am not knocking the sets or AT's. but a Brute or scrapper, when you see a spawn, you just go for it and start throwing punches etc. there is no stopping to set up a minefield, or spending your first 2 or 3 actions setting up a poison trap or triage beacon.
And thats the difference- i want to just go for it, and start blasting stuff without gimicks or set up time. I want to use tactics for especially difficult fights, not almost every fight. I want to cut loose and chuck fire everywhere, and not be stopped dead in my tracks for 15 seconds because a tesla knight clockwork put me to sleep, or a crey liut hit me with a mag 1 stun punch so my dmg aura detoggles and half of my defenses are suppressed. I dont want to rely on "chance for knockback" to keep me from getting 2 shotted. I dont want to be forced into the endo drain metagame to play an elec blast character because thats the only way to survive long enough to win the battle.
I want to blast. i want more reliable defenses that keep me moving for a faster paced, less tactical, less gimmicky solo game, but only enough defense that a normal spawn poses a similar threat as it would to a scrapper or brute. I want a simplified blasting experiance.
If you think traps is best played by setting up a mine field, you have never seen a decent trapper in action. Ffg gives you mez protection. If you can't softcap a trapper, you need to go back to build school.
All you need to remember is to drop acid mortar and pgt as soon as they are recharged and you are good. Everything else is fluff. Want a little pseudo resistance, drop seekers on the spawn before you head in. Taking a bit more damage than you are used to, drop a triage beacon. Want to drop the recharge of a hard target, web nade the crap out of them. But you don't have to. You can just fireball everything in the face. I rarely even use trip mine anymore, don't like the interrupt time.
It is exactly the type of experience you are looking for, but are ignoring it because you falsely believe you need to set up a kill zone and pull the spawn to you. Set up the kill zone right at their feet. Be in there before the tank, let the scrappers mop up your leftovers.
It's no different than targetting the Sapper first, or making sure the problem mobs are taken out in priority.