Why should VIPs pay for anything?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-10-23 24:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I haven't paid for anything yet, and yet I've gotten everything I want so far.
They do get stuff for free, via their point stipend.
They can even eventually unlock components from previous 'pay extra' only booster packs via their stipend.
The goal of the free-to-play model change is to have more things available than you can get for free as a VIP, so you can either pick and choose what you want as 'free content' and/or pay extra to 'have it all'. The extra income they are generating is allowing them to create the more content than would've been available previously under the monthly pay system.
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My reasoning goes like this: The free points you get are just that, free. You're not paying for them, which is kind of the purpose of "free", they're a bonus for being a subscriber.
As a subscriber you get access to everything that Premiums have to pay for, plus Incarnates, plus SSAs, plus *some* powersets, costumes, emotes and so forth. This is similar to pre-Freedom (booster packs) with the only real difference being the Powersets.
Sure, a powerset may be 800 points and you only get 400 a month (or 550 if you're T9) but you might not want all the new pay-for powersets (I haven't bought StJ yet because I don't have a concept I want to play) so you can just wait a month or, if you really want it right now, you can pay for it.
As long as the devs continue to provide at least some of the new powersets, costumes and emotes to VIPs either for free or at least "VIP-exclusive in-game unlockable" then I don't mind having to "buy" some stuff on the market (even if it's with free points). If they start making every single new thing purchase-only, then I might start to change my mind.
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same here. i don't see a problem.
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
I haven't paid for anything yet, and yet I've gotten everything I want so far.
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Let's assume a month that has 4 Tuesdays in it, so only 4 big releases to the market. So far we've seen something like this:|
Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
I hate to state the obvious, but don't they already pay? They only get a third of their money's worth in points, not even enough to buy the powersets and costume pieces (more like a tenth of the money required to).
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- 1 powerset (800 points)
- 2 costume sets (400 points each, 800 total)
- 1 signature story arc (free for VIPs, 400 points otherwise).
That's about $20 worth of points ($25 for a non-subscriber) and I would only have to pay $15 if I wanted all of. That's much better than 1/10th.
To be fair though, there could be months that have more expensive stuff go to the market and others that have less.
Speaking as a very long time subscriber I'm relatively happy with the state of things at the moment. I like costume items and they're giving me more new options than they ever have before (I haven't picked up all of them though since I don't need all of them). I like options power set wise and they've added in some new good ones so far. On top of that they've still given me free costume sets, a power set and new story content just like they always have in the past.
I don't really see what the issue is here. Why in the world should I be entitled for more than I ever got before for no extra charge? Especially since I've been having to buy extras for a long time now, now they're just putting out more of those extras.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
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/this, one example in the last month of a minor item added to the market for the week was the fireman hat, that week that was the only new item which was only 80 pts
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Originally Posted by Oliin
Let's assume a month that has 4 Tuesdays in it, so only 4 big releases to the market. So far we've seen something like this:
That's about $20 worth of points ($25 for a non-subscriber) and I would only have to pay $15 if I wanted all of. That's much better than 1/10th. To be fair though, there could be months that have more expensive stuff go to the market and others that have less. Speaking as a very long time subscriber I'm relatively happy with the state of things at the moment. I like costume items and they're giving me more new options than they ever have before (I haven't picked up all of them though since I don't need all of them). I like options power set wise and they've added in some new good ones so far. On top of that they've still given me free costume sets, a power set and new story content just like they always have in the past. I don't really see what the issue is here. Why in the world should I be entitled for more than I ever got before for no extra charge? Especially since I've been having to buy extras for a long time now, now they're just putting out more of those extras. |
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Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
BTW, I preface this by saying I am currently a VIP, but won't be one soon, no matter what the devs do. I have no vested interest in what actually happens to VIP players, this is just honest perplexitude.
I hate to state the obvious, but don't they already pay? They only get a third of their money's worth in points, not even enough to buy the powersets and costume pieces (more like a tenth of the money required to). These are the people who've supported you for day one, and a lot of months in between more than I ever did that's for sure. I just don't get why you'd crap on them, even from a business perspective it seems an absurd quickster-esque move. Obviously they needed more money, isn't that what premiums are for? People who wouldn't otherwise pay you anything are now paying you something. Isn't that the whole point? Do you really expect them to be more profitable than VIPs? No one is more profitable to your business than a VIP. Even if you give them everything, you lose nothing. They pay every month to keep access to the new goodies you continue to give them. Yet you expect people to pay monthly and then pay more on top of that for content that used to be included? What am I missing? This horse isn't dead enough for me. |
Vip's/subscribers in the past have had to pay for some new things, like some updates, and the various origin packs. It's the same now, but you pick and choose what you buy, if you buy anything at all.
Whining about "having" to spend extra as a subscriber is almost as bad as the free players who whine about not getting access to everything.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
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(prefaceing this by saying that im assuming vips are generally veteran players, well aware thats not always the case, but its close enough)vips are also usually the people with the most vested interest in the game. a new costume may generally be interesting to a new player, but to an existing player with a huge stall of alts, it may (and in my case has) fill out a concept that you have wanted for an existing character for years, and you have the stable of alts to make this more likely.|
Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
BTW, I preface this by saying I am currently a VIP, but won't be one soon, no matter what the devs do. I have no vested interest in what actually happens to VIP players, this is just honest perplexitude.
I hate to state the obvious, but don't they already pay? They only get a third of their money's worth in points, not even enough to buy the powersets and costume pieces (more like a tenth of the money required to). These are the people who've supported you for day one, and a lot of months in between more than I ever did that's for sure. I just don't get why you'd crap on them, even from a business perspective it seems an absurd quickster-esque move. Obviously they needed more money, isn't that what premiums are for? People who wouldn't otherwise pay you anything are now paying you something. Isn't that the whole point? Do you really expect them to be more profitable than VIPs? No one is more profitable to your business than a VIP. Even if you give them everything, you lose nothing. They pay every month to keep access to the new goodies you continue to give them. Yet you expect people to pay monthly and then pay more on top of that for content that used to be included? What am I missing? This horse isn't dead enough for me. |
plus you have the invested time to feel like you are staying here, rather than having a transient stay in one of a number of faceless freemos you are trying, checking the hook and moving on. essentially you don't buy jewelry for a one night stand. if you have a vested interest in the game and are interested in staying, you will want more stuff for your continued experience. For example, i bought the barbarian pack, i dont generally have any human fantasy themed characters, but since im going to likely be here till the lights go off, I probably will, so the trigger gets pulled. I am the choir here, preaching to me is easier.
Now as for your central point as to why have to pay more? well, for one, its debatable whether we did or not, but its already been debated into the earths core, but we paid for expansions and boosters, and we did then as we do now, making things costs money, and the 15 dollar a month thing(which was established over a decade ago) no longer covers the costs needed to develop the additional content, costs go up, and the value of the dollar has gone down, and inflation does that thing it does. the simple fact is that costs go up,relative to when i started i paid 18 dollars more per month for my karate training, 12 more for my gym membership, even 6 packs of pepsi run an average of 1.50 more than they used to 10 years ago , and thats if you follow sales. Stuff goes up, and we still only pay 15 a month(max, if you get in on deals, it can be as low as 10 bucks).
Ultimately you can still have the vip experience without buying points if you are disciplined, if you want a power, wait 2 months of stipend and maybe even wait for a sale. But if you want the niceties NOW, have a budget with flexibility for entertainment, and like the stuff, then you can pay the "want it now" tax. I have paid that tax and will continue to do so, so long as my budget has that opening and i find the offerings worth the investment. Since freedom we have gotten a good amount of content, going just by what i want (costumes and powers) we have gotten more than we have in the same proportionate amount of time in the games history, the trade off is that if you want it now, you pay the "win" tax. my friend has purchased less because some of the sets just didnt fit the themes that he enjoys playing. thats all good, I similarly wont be buying the consumables, not my vibe, but the options are there, and if you want to pay the win-tax, then they are available for your choice. without the market, we would very likely have to wait for boosters and expansions for the additional stuff like we used to, and we sure as heck wouldnt be getting around 4 new power-sets this year.
tldr, you get what you pay for. you want more, then you pay more.
"i will note that at present, i have spent 25 bucks on the market. post issue 21 i have street justice, the Halloween set, the cot set, the barbarian set, beam rifle, 4 Global costume slots, idf and defense costume sets, time manipulation, beam rifle, all the ssa's, first ward, all the celestial stuff, 150 more points per month and, since i used the 14 month deal, i pay around 10 bucks a month. i feel that I currently am coming out ahead. I have thus far put more money into "skylanders" thanks to my dragon addiction
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I"m really only interested in Powersets.
While Costumes are nice, the powersets are what your using, and most times costumes are just a blur of color and design when your smashing powers like crazy.
So far, I've been able to buy both powersets that have been release, being Beam Rifle and Street Justice, and i have about 350 points left over. Which gives me just enough to pay for another powerset next month. Also, being a VIP I didn't have to pay for /time, which a premium player would have to pay for. That basically 'saves' me 800 points right there.
Then you have the SSA (currently 800 points as well..) plus IOs, the market, AE, etc. There are plenty of things a VIP get that a premium or free account wouldn't, and try to undervalue those things because you want to have things NOW just isn't correct at all.
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Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
BTW, I preface this by saying I am currently a VIP, but won't be one soon, no matter what the devs do. I have no vested interest in what actually happens to VIP players, this is just honest perplexitude.
I hate to state the obvious, but don't they already pay? They only get a third of their money's worth in points, not even enough to buy the powersets and costume pieces (more like a tenth of the money required to). These are the people who've supported you for day one, and a lot of months in between more than I ever did that's for sure. I just don't get why you'd crap on them, even from a business perspective it seems an absurd quickster-esque move. Obviously they needed more money, isn't that what premiums are for? People who wouldn't otherwise pay you anything are now paying you something. Isn't that the whole point? Do you really expect them to be more profitable than VIPs? No one is more profitable to your business than a VIP. Even if you give them everything, you lose nothing. They pay every month to keep access to the new goodies you continue to give them. Yet you expect people to pay monthly and then pay more on top of that for content that used to be included? What am I missing? This horse isn't dead enough for me. |
VIP's can get everything for free by exercising patience. The only people that end up paying money are the ones that desire instant gratification.
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That's not entirely true. If the devs keep a content stream up at this pace, there is more content being generated than there is free points, so there's no way you can get everything just by waiting. Aside from waiting for sales, waiting just creates even more content that you may wish to buy.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
VIP's can get everything for free by exercising patience. The only people that end up paying money are the ones that desire instant gratification.
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Count me in as a "yet to spend a penny" person 
I JUST had enough for street justice last week, i have zero concept for titan weapons so i wont purchase it and im a bit undecided at the moment about staffs.
With the rate we seem to be getting new stuff it does have me wondering though if they had been keeping a lot of these behind the last 2 years or the influx of cash from freedom has been so huge that everything is being pushed forward! That being said, i remember i think the wedding pack going for sale and the amount of money they made from that they were able to push something forward but i can't remember what. Do wonder how much of an increase in revenue they've had already though.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Or the ones who have to buy all the things they had to buy before Freedom.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
VIP's can get everything for free by exercising patience. The only people that end up paying money are the ones that desire instant gratification.
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To the OP, that's really it. If you save your points for only the content that you would of gotten free before FREEDOM, you arent paying extra for anything.
If you want all those extra goodies (costume bundles, costume slots, renames...ect) you're using free points to buy things you had to pay extra for before.
So, dont do that, and save points for everything else.
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I don't mind paying for the occasional costume pack since I was buying boosters before. I am very much bothered by the fact that costumes are locked behind the tier system in some "VIP" level that I, as a VIP, can't access unless I drop a bunch of cash on tokens or wait a year or two. But then I was already turned off by the Incarnate-locked costumes and the whole thing has left a fairly sour taste in my mouth.
For what it's worth, I'm not saying anyone else needs to be bothered by it or whatever. Everyone can decide on their own what's worth it to them and what they think is acceptable. I'm personally letting my VIP subscription lapse once it's up because I don't feel like an actual "VIP" with the current set-up so much as just another person to pump for cash.
I've bought points. I wanted the extra costume slots, something I'd never been able to get before and won't get as a VIP player. I've used free points to buy powersets and I think some of my left over bought points I've gotten costume pieces.
I don't see it as being any different really from the way we had the choice to pay for the old Booster packs. I got many of those as they were released, but held off on one or two until the character concept came around that I wanted to use them with. I do still want some stuff to be free to VIP players, just as it always was (we used to get a couple of costume sets, and some other stuff in an issue) and so far there has been. I've yet to try out the SSAs but am very glad we're getting them. Likewise the free 400 points a month lets me pick and choose the extra stuff I want.
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
I've been with this game for years so I already have everything unlocked. I'm having trouble justifying staying subscribed for the horrible iTrials and SSA. (Which is basically all VIPs get.)
I pay because I like having live Customer Support.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Well, and AE and inventions.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
I've been with this game for years so I already have everything unlocked. I'm having trouble justifying staying subscribed for the horrible iTrials and SSA. (Which is basically all VIPs get.)
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But if you already have those things unlocked via the tier system, then all you'll lose going premium is:
/time. VIP bonus
Free server transfer every month (debatable on how useful that really is)
400 - 550 free points (again, debatable on how useful they are, but with the fact you get some powersets for free anyways, you can spend those points on other things)
Exalted server VIP Bonus
Oh, and anything else VIPs may get for free (currently i think VIPs got 1, maybe 2 costume sets for free with i21, plus access to Going Rogue and First ward (even if they didn't buy them before)
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This, very much.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
I've been with this game for years so I already have everything unlocked. I'm having trouble justifying staying subscribed for the horrible iTrials and SSA. (Which is basically all VIPs get.)
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you have to be subbed to post feedback on the forums, you seem to like providing a specific form of feedback.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
I've been with this game for years so I already have everything unlocked. I'm having trouble justifying staying subscribed for the horrible iTrials and SSA. (Which is basically all VIPs get.)
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Isn't there also a whole lot of character slots? Preems do not get 12 iirc. Now if you play a small number of characters that works out fine.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
I've been with this game for years so I already have everything unlocked. I'm having trouble justifying staying subscribed for the horrible iTrials and SSA. (Which is basically all VIPs get.)
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Yeah I cant play Street Justice just yet. I think it should be free to VIP since they always were before all this "free" stuff happened. I resubbed and still waiting for the points to kick in, then I'll have enough. Damned if I throw another 5 bucks in to buy a powerset.
The proposed idea is that they are going to be selling more things in order to bring more revemue in, which they will turn around and use for more resource and development time which will result in more and better stuff for the game overall ("free" and purchasable).
Whether or not any of this will really play out as such is not entirely seen yet... As, I believe they've been stock-piling things for some time now in preparation for this.
And there is nothing wrong with that... You spend a bunch of money/time/resources on making stuff for the new business model in hopes that it goes well (brings in money) and then you turn around with that income and continue it (possibly to a greater degree, if things go well enough).
As I understand it, that is the plan.
Whether or not the increased profits will funnel into the "free" for VIP parts of the game, we will see.
Still, the monthly points have added to what was already a normal, if not bigger, published issue that was "free".
They wouldn't have offered us all of the new stuff that they have... if they weren't going to be making more money from it.
They didn't used to offer us free costume packs every couple of weeks and, until they find a magical hat of instant video game creation, they're going to charge money for their work.
@Zethustra
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Powersets have however most certainly been gated behind a purchase before.
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Originally Posted by Seek_Trouble
Yeah I cant play Street Justice just yet. I think it should be free to VIP since they always were before all this "free" stuff happened. I resubbed and still waiting for the points to kick in, then I'll have enough. Damned if I throw another 5 bucks in to buy a powerset.
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MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
BTW, I preface this by saying I am currently a VIP, but won't be one soon, no matter what the devs do. I have no vested interest in what actually happens to VIP players, this is just honest perplexitude.
I hate to state the obvious, but don't they already pay? They only get a third of their money's worth in points, not even enough to buy the powersets and costume pieces (more like a tenth of the money required to).
These are the people who've supported you for day one, and a lot of months in between more than I ever did that's for sure. I just don't get why you'd crap on them, even from a business perspective it seems an absurd quickster-esque move.
Obviously they needed more money, isn't that what premiums are for? People who wouldn't otherwise pay you anything are now paying you something. Isn't that the whole point? Do you really expect them to be more profitable than VIPs? No one is more profitable to your business than a VIP.
Even if you give them everything, you lose nothing. They pay every month to keep access to the new goodies you continue to give them. Yet you expect people to pay monthly and then pay more on top of that for content that used to be included?
What am I missing? This horse isn't dead enough for me.