Why should VIPs pay for anything?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-10-23 24:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Oliin
Powersets have however most certainly been gated behind a purchase before.
|
Once and they costed way less than $5
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
I love stating the obvious! Did we get Going Rogue for free? Did we get the Booster Packs for free? Oh, we didn't! Imagine that. We've always had to pay extra beyond the subscription fee.|
Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
BTW, I preface this by saying I am currently a VIP, but won't be one soon, no matter what the devs do. I have no vested interest in what actually happens to VIP players, this is just honest perplexitude.
I hate to state the obvious, but don't they already pay? |
/entitlement thread
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Yes it is entirely true, and the only difference between now and pre-Freedom is that when the devs used to release new boosters and Editions with new goodies people had to wait and save up real money to buy them instead of waiting to save up free points and getting them for nothing.|
Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
That's not entirely true. If the devs keep a content stream up at this pace, there is more content being generated than there is free points, so there's no way you can get everything just by waiting. Aside from waiting for sales, waiting just creates even more content that you may wish to buy.
|
And if the devs are adding new stuff to the game faster than you can get it for free, Boo frelling Hoo. Patience is a virtue. Adding new stuff to the game is always a good thing.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
I've been with this game for years so I already have everything unlocked. I'm having trouble justifying staying subscribed for the horrible iTrials and SSA. (Which is basically all VIPs get.)
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Angelxman81
This, very much.
|
Everyones happy.
We only pay what a 15 a month or something and that it and for a bonus we get 1 Server Transfer, 1 Reward Token and 400 a month, which you can save up for other stuff like power set.
We are living the sweet life, The Dev are good people, not the uptight Azz-Holes that people think they are.
Plus every now and then they give us free Access to new zones, Free Access to Signature Arcs and every now and then we get a free power set, Dude I really don't no why you getting bent out of shape over it.
Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.
Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus
*Waits for OP to become Premium and start the whole "Premiums should have access to Incarnate content" thread again*
The value of subscribing has gone down because so much stuff is now free, yet the cost of subscribing has remained the same. The amount of new content for subscribers isn't at a faster rate than before. So overall subscribers get less for their money than they did before CoH went F2P.
I think this is a bad thing.
Quote:
Seriously what game have you been playing because it hasn't been City of Heroes.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
The value of subscribing has gone down because so much stuff is now free, yet the cost of subscribing has remained the same. The amount of new content for subscribers isn't at a faster rate than before. So overall subscribers get less for their money than they did before CoH went F2P.
I think this is a bad thing. |
Here's just a few things VIP's got in the past month since switching to the new hybrid business model.
Going Rogue free for VIP's that haven't bought it as long as the account id active
1 additional server
Increased the number of slots per server from 36 to 48
New Zone - First Ward
New tutorial
Underground Incarnate Trial
Death from Below Trial
Time manipulation Power Set
IDF Costume Set
Defense Power Set
Updated Character Creator Interface
Atlas Park Revamped
New mission content added to AP and Mercy
New powers added to Leaping, Flight, Speed, Transportation
Power Set Proliferation - 17 power sets proliferated to other AT's
Ancillary and Patron Power Pools now unlock at 35
Tailors added to Mercy and Atlas Park
Trainers also alter costumes
Ouroboros now accessed at level 14
Travel Powers unlocked at level 4
Total Revamp of the Vet Reward System
Free server transfer each month (stackable)
400-550 free points to spend in the store each month (stackable)
New items in the store that can be bought for free with the free points we get each month.
Account bound Invention Origin Enhancements
Capes can be unlocked at level 1 (global)
Auras can be unlocked at level 1 (global)
10 additional costume slots (global)
20 additional enhancement slots (global)
30 additional Auction House Slots (global)
100 additional Recipe Slots (global)
100 additional Salvage slots (global)
30 additional Vault inventory slots (global)
XP boosters
Influence boosters
CoT costume Set
Barbarian costume set
Beam Rifle Power Set
Street Justice Power Set
Halloween Costume set
Dual Inspirations
Team Inspirations
Enhancement Boosters
Enhancement Unslotters
Prestige Boosters
Revival Temp Powers
Restore Temp Powers
Rocket Board Power
School Backpack
Fireman's Helmet
Now compare that to what we got 1 month after the game launched back in 2004.
Go ahead we'll wait.
What's the matter. You want to try to compare the amount of content we got over a period of seven and a half YEARS to what we've gotten during the past month since Freedom launched? Pardon our howls of derisive laughter at that idea.
Edit Or are you actually arguing that we should pay less because we get more for free? That's even more hilarious.
Quote:
Really? Unsubscribe, and tell us again how much of that stuff is free. A good chunk of that stuff you're calling "free" is only free to subscribers. Premium and Free players have to pony up the cash for it. |
Originally Posted by Xanatos
The value of subscribing has gone down because so much stuff is now free, yet the cost of subscribing has remained the same.
|
First Ward? Subscribers get it free, everyone else has to pay.
Signature Arcs? Subscribers get it free, everyone else pays.
Going Rogue? Subscribers get it free, even if they didn't buy it before. Everyone else has to pay, and are locked out of Incarnate content (which isn't technically part of GR anyway).
Some of the new costume parts are free to subscribers as well. Everyone else pays 400 points for those sets.
Quote:
| The amount of new content for subscribers isn't at a faster rate than before. |
Show me at ANY point in the game's history where we got something new to do every month. I dare you. You can't, because it's never happened.
There is new stuff available every week in the market. And if you didn't blow all your points on other stuff already, you can have it for free.
At no point in the last seven years have we EVER gotten content released at this rapid of a pace. We got powerset proliferation AND 3 brand new powersets, at the same time. Can you show me an issue where that happened? Show me one issue that had both powerset proliferation and THREE new powersets. I don't think you can.
Quote:
| So overall subscribers get less for their money than they did before CoH went F2P. |
Even funnier is the fact that you actually believe it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Since the VIP change, I got 7-8 free transfers, the nemesis staff, a few more salvage/recipe slots, Time Manip and Street Justice, for no additional cost.
I could pay extra for more, but I'm happy with what I get compared to what I used to get.
Quote:
Haven't read anything in this post that deserved this kind of response. Remember when we used to be able to pride ourselves on community?
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
So cancel your subs and pay for everything extra you want instead of saving your points and getting it for free. You'll win because you can spend that $15 bucks in the store on points, the company wins because they'll still be getting your money, and we'll win because you won't be able to post anymore.
Everyones happy. |
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
Hobbies cost money to produce.
You would be hard pressed to show me a successful business, with competition, that caters to a hobby, that has not changed is pricing in the last 7 seven years.
With that said, I think it has been shown over and over that for the VIP subscription, you get more than you did before Freedom. Even my most penny-pinching, frankly downright 'cheap', close friends agree with that. There is no reason to give away more than they are now.
Paragon has added more new stuff and that new stuff must bring in revenue above and beyond what the game was making previously. Both to justify the cost of having made the extra stuff, coupled with needing to be more profitable in a world where pretty much everything cost more than it it 7 years ago.
Personally, I think anyone that does not realize a company has to continue to show profits while at the same time give things like raises, pay higher rent, etc., has their head in the sand.
Additionally, NCNC is known for shutting down games that are not profitable. City must maintain a profit margin acceptable to NCNC if the servers are going to be allowed to continue to run.
If you want to game to continue, then it needs money. That's how things work. NOTHING in this world is free.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
Quote:
$15 a month - $5 a month of Paragon Points = $10|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
The value of subscribing has gone down because so much stuff is now free, yet the cost of subscribing has remained the same. The amount of new content for subscribers isn't at a faster rate than before. So overall subscribers get less for their money than they did before CoH went F2P.
I think this is a bad thing. |
Huh. It looks like my cost of subscribing actually went down.
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
Quote:
Then you must not be very familiar with the forums or the use of the smilies. The responses in this thread haven't been even remotely uncivil.
|
Originally Posted by King_Moloch
Haven't read anything in this post that deserved this kind of response. Remember when we used to be able to pride ourselves on community?
|
Quote:
And the players that pay in advance are paying less.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
$15 a month - $5 a month of Paragon Points = $10
Huh. It looks like my cost of subscribing actually went down. |
3 months: $41.85* (equivalent to $13.95 per month) - $5 = $8.95
6 months: $77.70* (equivalent to $12.95 per month) - $5 = $7.95
12 months: $143.40* (equivalent to $11.95 per month) - $5 = $6.95
If you also consider the price of the free server transfers it drops another $9.99.
Quote:
Stop using facts to refute emotionally charged baseless accusations!
|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Seriously what game have you been playing because it hasn't been City of Heroes.
Here's just a few things VIP's got in the past month since switching to the new hybrid business model. Going Rogue free for VIP's that haven't bought it as long as the account id active 1 additional server Increased the number of slots per server from 36 to 48 New Zone - First Ward New tutorial Underground Incarnate Trial Death from Below Trial Time manipulation Power Set IDF Costume Set Defense Power Set Updated Character Creator Interface Atlas Park Revamped New mission content added to AP and Mercy New powers added to Leaping, Flight, Speed, Transportation Power Set Proliferation - 17 power sets proliferated to other AT's Ancillary and Patron Power Pools now unlock at 35 Tailors added to Mercy and Atlas Park Trainers also alter costumes Ouroboros now accessed at level 14 Travel Powers unlocked at level 4 Total Revamp of the Vet Reward System Free server transfer each month (stackable) 400-550 free points to spend in the store each month (stackable) New items in the store that can be bought for free with the free points we get each month. Account bound Invention Origin Enhancements Capes can be unlocked at level 1 (global) Auras can be unlocked at level 1 (global) 10 additional costume slots (global) 20 additional enhancement slots (global) 30 additional Auction House Slots (global) 100 additional Recipe Slots (global) 100 additional Salvage slots (global) 30 additional Vault inventory slots (global) XP boosters Influence boosters CoT costume Set Barbarian costume set Beam Rifle Power Set Street Justice Power Set Halloween Costume set Dual Inspirations Team Inspirations Enhancement Boosters Enhancement Unslotters Prestige Boosters Revival Temp Powers Restore Temp Powers Rocket Board Power School Backpack Fireman's Helmet Now compare that to what we got 1 month after the game launched back in 2004. Go ahead we'll wait. What's the matter. You want to try to compare the amount of content we got over a period of seven and a half YEARS to what we've gotten during the past month since Freedom launched? Pardon our howls of derisive laughter at that idea. Edit Or are you actually arguing that we should pay less because we get more for free? That's even more hilarious. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
I was just warming them up so their brains don't fry if Arcanaville decides to drop in with her irrefutable math skills. |
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
Stop using facts to refute emotionally charged baseless accusations!
|
Quote:
I tried using this argument but the cops made me give everything back.
|
Originally Posted by Nox__Fatalis
Why should VIPs pay for anything?
|
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
Quote:
So you are not a Banker then?|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
I tried using this argument but the cops made me give everything back.
|
/satire!
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Personally don't think V.I.P's should pay for powersets while they are subbed, of course when/if they drop to preemium they'd have to purchase the powersets to keep playing those toons. Y'know just like they have to do with slots?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Quote:
My account went premium briefly over the weekend and pretty much everything except the horrendous SSA & iTrials were available to me. (I think Firs Ward may also have been locked but I didn't check.) I had access to all of the following:|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Really? Unsubscribe, and tell us again how much of that stuff is free. A good chunk of that stuff you're calling "free" is only free to subscribers. Premium and Free players have to pony up the cash for it.
|
-Inventions
-The Market Place
-Mission Architect
-Global Chat Channels
-All my old characters.
-All Pre-I21 City of Villains Content
-All Pre-I21 City of Heroes Content
-Praetoria access
-Going Rogue
-Praetorian Character Creation
-All Going Rogue Power Sets: Dual Pistols, Kinetic Melee, Electric Control, and Demon Summoning
-New tutorial
-IDF Costume Set
-Updated Character Creator Interface
-Atlas Park Revamped
-New mission content added to AP and Mercy
-New powers added to Leaping, Flight, Speed, Transportation
-Power Set Proliferation - 17 power sets proliferated to other AT's
-Ancillary and Patron Power Pools now unlock at 35
-Tailors added to Mercy and Atlas Park
-Trainers also alter costumes
-Ouroboros now accessed at level 14
-Travel Powers unlocked at level 4
-Total Revamp of the Vet Reward System
All of this was FREE.
Quote:
Hey, I can understand your viewpoint. As a long-time Vet at tier nine, it's hard not to take the various perks of your tier for granted. We are subjective animals.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
My account went premium briefly over the weekend and pretty much everything except the horrendous SSA & iTrials were available to me. (I think Firs Ward may also have been locked but I didn't check.) I had access to all of the following:
-Inventions -The Market Place -Mission Architect -Global Chat Channels -All my old characters. -All Pre-I21 City of Villains Content -All Pre-I21 City of Heroes Content -Praetoria access -Going Rogue -Praetorian Character Creation -All Going Rogue Power Sets: Dual Pistols, Kinetic Melee, Electric Control, and Demon Summoning -New tutorial -IDF Costume Set -Updated Character Creator Interface -Atlas Park Revamped -New mission content added to AP and Mercy -New powers added to Leaping, Flight, Speed, Transportation -Power Set Proliferation - 17 power sets proliferated to other AT's -Ancillary and Patron Power Pools now unlock at 35 -Tailors added to Mercy and Atlas Park -Trainers also alter costumes -Ouroboros now accessed at level 14 -Travel Powers unlocked at level 4 -Total Revamp of the Vet Reward System All of this was FREE. |
But an awful lot of that stuff you list is only "free" because you've already invested hundreds of dollars into the game. For you personally, it may make a lot of sense to drop your subscription at this point, but not everyone is in the same boat.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
 |
Quote:
Good to see you admitting that you have nothing to complain about.
|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
My account went premium briefly over the weekend and pretty much everything except the horrendous SSA & iTrials were available to me. (I think Firs Ward may also have been locked but I didn't check.) I had access to all of the following:
-Inventions -The Market Place -Mission Architect -Global Chat Channels -All my old characters. -All Pre-I21 City of Villains Content -All Pre-I21 City of Heroes Content -Praetoria access -Going Rogue -Praetorian Character Creation -All Going Rogue Power Sets: Dual Pistols, Kinetic Melee, Electric Control, and Demon Summoning -New tutorial -IDF Costume Set -Updated Character Creator Interface -Atlas Park Revamped -New mission content added to AP and Mercy -New powers added to Leaping, Flight, Speed, Transportation -Power Set Proliferation - 17 power sets proliferated to other AT's -Ancillary and Patron Power Pools now unlock at 35 -Tailors added to Mercy and Atlas Park -Trainers also alter costumes -Ouroboros now accessed at level 14 -Travel Powers unlocked at level 4 -Total Revamp of the Vet Reward System All of this was FREE. |
If you're not at all interested in incarnates and have reached a high tier in the rewards system, then it may well be cheaper to drop to premium (possibly 100% free, depending how much you're willing to go without). I've considered doing that myself.
If that's the case, it sounds like a good thing rather than something to criticise.
It's not like those who maintain a subscription are being conned into doing so - the options available are relatively clear and we can all make our choice accordingly.
Also any of the CoV powersets (before the merge) weren't free before.
I also think there were other powersets that we had to pay for in order to get, i just can't remember them off the top of my head, and i'm at work, so i can't exactly look them up.