Why VIPs get server transfer instead of 800 more points?


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Originally Posted by Inkblaster View Post
Why do VIPs get server transfers instead of 800 more points to spend?
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Because giving us 800 more points per month wouldn't make any business sense?
Pretty much.

The answer isn't a pretty one, but giving free transfers, overall, is going to take less money out of their pocket than giving 800 more points. The transfers are useful to some people, and they have a specific price when you actually buy them, so they can say, "Look how generous we are."

Sure, most people would rather have the points as it would be of more value to them. However, for simple business reasons, I would venture to say that is not an option. The equation is not Server Transfer vs 800 Points. The equation is Server Transfer vs Nothing (or something else of value to only a limited group).


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkblaster View Post
Why do VIPs get server transfers instead of 800 more points to spend?

I would prefer to just get the points, I'm happy where my characters are, and even if I wanted to transfer 1 or 2, I don't see the need to do 12 transfers a year.

Alternatively, only 400 points a month for a subscription is nothing, when new powersets cost 800, and it looks like there may be a new set at least every other month for a while, so that's all my points.

Conversely, I could unsubscribe, and pay $15 for 1320 points a month, buy a powerset, or a server transfer, or a respec, or, lots of other things.

At least let us trade in the server transfers for points.
Because it isn't an either/or proposition. If they didn't give you the server transfers then they likely wouldn't be giving something else in it's place. So if server transfer tokens went away as a freebie for VIP's they most likely wouldn't give something to replace them.


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Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
You are right, it is a poor analogy - part of my $15 sub goes toward that server transfer, so it isn't as free as the flaming bag of poo... But then again, you are paying for that poo with the punch .
No. Part of your sub does NOT go towards that server transfer.
That and your 400/550 points a month are perks of subscribing, but are not being paid for out of your subscription.

If you choose not to use them, that's on you. But you have them available if you want/need them.



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Originally Posted by GPBunny View Post
I just look at the free transfer as the Devs backhanded way of supporting PLing.

By doing this they keep the farmers supplied with people, keep the majority of farmers together, get people more 50's for incarnate stuff.
Equating farming and PL'ing = fail. They're not the same thing. And farmers don't NEED people when they farm.



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Any claims that the player base doesn't want free transfers is untrue. People have been coming to the forums every 30-60 days begging for more free server transfers ever since they gave them out on the 2009 Winter Event.


That being said I think the devs would have done better by giving us a window where we could select a free respec, server transfer, or name change token depending on what we needed that month


 

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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
No. Part of your sub does NOT go towards that server transfer.
That and your 400/550 points a month are perks of subscribing, but are not being paid for out of your subscription.
I'm not sure I see the logical distinction. If the server transfers and PP stipends are not given out unless you subscribe, then in what way is it incorrect to say the monthly subscription is subsidizing them? Just because you can't opt-out of these bonuses--and therefore there is no explicit reimbursement for doing so--doesn't mean that NCSoft doesn't internally consider (and calculate) the market-value cost (as a portion of the subscription fee) to provide them as "perks".


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I think I'm at tier 8, another tier and in another month it will really not make sense for me to pay $14.99 for what amounts to $5.00 worth of points, for me and my playstyle.

If they offered a nice perk, not available from the market, that can't eventually be freed up with reward points, like, maybe merit rewards, I'd say ok, that's cool.

But they aren't, server transfers have a cost, they've put a price tag on it, 800 points, the same as a powerset, a respec, a name change, a full costume set.



It's like a magazine subscription, I subscribe for the year, I get a lower price than if I buy each issue at the newstand.

The current model is counter to that, doesn't repay loyalty, which is not good business sense.


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Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
I do think the Devs need to do something to make subscribing seem more appealing though, if I unsubbed right now I only lose Incarnates but I gain 920 points a month. The decision to stay subbed is actually quite difficult and it really shouldn't be if they have done things right.
I would lose access to Incarnates. And to about 50 characters, since I would only have about a dozen Global unlocks. And Time Manipulation powerset, so there goes a couple more characters. And First Ward content, which is supposed to be great (Although I haven't gotten to it just yet, I am planning on it.) And the Signature arc, which I have enjoyed running and am looking forward to the coming installments.

So that would be $200 just for enough slots for the existing characters (Assuming I only have 50 locked, which is on the low side), plus 800 points for Time, plus 4000 points to unlock my EATs (Only available with a license, not Premium unlock), and only 600 more points for First Ward. And I almost forgot the 400 a month for the Signature Arc. And any time I want to create a new character, I either delete an old one or pay more money for another slot.

And with a multi-month sub, all of that is less than $11 a month for me. Yeah, unsubbing is a much better deal for Tier 9 VIPs. (Oh, forgot the Tier 9 VIP stuff, lose that too.)

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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
indeed, instead of deleting my namesake character, I moved him to Exalted and then rerolled him on Infinity as a SR/StJ Tank
I am going to use a couple for a character rename. Can't believe I put an extra i in Sinister.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkblaster View Post
I think I'm at tier 8, another tier and in another month it will really not make sense for me to pay $14.99 for what amounts to $5.00 worth of points, for me and my playstyle.

If they offered a nice perk, not available from the market, that can't eventually be freed up with reward points, like, maybe merit rewards, I'd say ok, that's cool.

But they aren't, server transfers have a cost, they've put a price tag on it, 800 points, the same as a powerset, a respec, a name change, a full costume set.

And the business sense thing doesn't fly, when Champions offers their subscribers all content for 'free'.

It's like a magazine subscription, I subscribe for the year, I get a lower price than if I buy each issue at the newstand.

The current model is counter to that, doesn't repay loyalty, which is not good business sense.
As I listed above, they are repaying my loyalty with a huge bunch of stuff that would cost me a lot of money if I had to get it through the store. If you are going to have Tier 8 filled next month, remember that your points go up to 550 per month. And you do get a lower price if you subscribe for a longer period. You can get a 12 month sub here for 144.40. So just over $12 a month.

I don't know what is offered on the other game for free, I have never tried it because my system can't handle it. But I have heard your character choices are extremely limited, losing the freeform power choice that is supposed to be the best part of the game. So you can play all of their content, but only using what they allow.

Here the only part of the game that is completely shut off from non-subscribers is 4 level 50 trials and level 50 powers. Everything else is either available for free (Most of the game) or available for purchase. And as you have pointed out, huge amounts of the stuff that does cost money for non-subscribers is available to you without extra cost because of the length of time you have been subscribed, i.e. because they are rewarding your loyalty.

Saying they are not rewarding loyalty by talking about how much of the game you can play because they have given it to you as a reward for your loyalty? That kind of hurts my brain, really. But hey, if it actually makes sense to you, and you don't want to spend the money on the game, then don't. They have given you the Freedom to choose what works for you.


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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader View Post
I'm not sure I see the logical distinction. If the server transfers and PP stipends are not given out unless you subscribe, then in what way is it incorrect to say the monthly subscription is subsidizing them? Just because you can't opt-out of these bonuses--and therefore there is no explicit reimbursement for doing so--doesn't mean that NCSoft doesn't internally consider (and calculate) the market-value cost (as a portion of the subscription fee) to provide them as "perks".
for $15, you keep all your stuff you had before i21 and get extra bonuses

you don't pay the $15, you lose access to Incarnates, have limited character slots, limited inf holding capacity and depending on your Tier, you'll lose access to a few things, global chats, Masterminds, Controllers, EATS, VEATS, and Inventions


 

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Not to mention some of the small side bonus for being VIP. I've a character at level 4, no AH badges, and he can hold 40 pieces of salvage. A non-VIP, as I read the rewards shrub, doesn't get the bonus inventory and would be able to hold only about 8, maybe 10 pieces. Without going for a whole bunch of AH badges, my pre-Freedom 50s held 55.


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Simplest reason is a Server Transfer costs them nothing to give out but points do, since the only thing you can buy nowadays with actual money, other than a month or more subscription, is points.


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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
Equating farming and PL'ing = fail. They're not the same thing. And farmers don't NEED people when they farm.
Cool, has a problem with me using the term Farmer for the person doing the power leveling. (Farming XP) But doesn't have a problem with equating Freedom to a redlight district and Farmer/PLers to Drug dealers and hookers.

-eh?


 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post


That being said I think the devs would have done better by giving us a window where we could select a free respec, server transfer, or name change token depending on what we needed that month
*buzzer press*

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I think the main reason they decided to give the free transfer may have been in order to provide subscribers with a free way to move to the VIP only server.
When the new business model was initially announced, there was concern bout how the servers may be flooded with spammers, jerks and other such unsavory riffraff.
Whether or not any of this was considered a legitimate concern, an offering to allow subscribers to jump into VIP seclusion seemed almost a necessity.

Now, that may not be the real or the sole reason behind it... but if there weren't free transfers, I am quite sure there would have been people asking for them.

And, as others have mentioned... giving free transfers does not equal giving 800 points for their value.


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It would be nice if you could trade them in directly for respecs and renames, both of which cost the same in points, and 1 a month/account I doubt will break anyone's bank.

Or better yet make them worth their point total (800) which can be spent as normal but only on things that cost 800 or more, excluding power sets (make power sets 799pts). So you can offset to truly outlandish prices of some items (enhancement trays @ 1600pts WTF?).


 

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Originally Posted by Lost Ninja View Post
So you can offset to truly outlandish prices of some items (enhancement trays @ 1600pts WTF?).
16 servers with 12 character slots per server for a total of 192 slots comes to roughly ten cents per character. Seems pretty cheap to me.


 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
16 servers with 12 character slots per server for a total of 192 slots comes to roughly ten cents per character. Seems pretty cheap to me.
I'm not sure why examples for these types of things always assume you have over a hundred characters, which "proves" it's pretty cheap. I could do the same thing in reverse. 1 server with 1 character for a total of $20 per character! That's pretty damn expensive!


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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

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The basic idea behind the FREE server transfer for VIPs was to allow them to slowly, one per month, move characters from the zones they are on now to Exalted (the new vip zone). That way a player could eventually move all of the characters they wanted to the new zone without paying a transfer fee provided they were patient enough.

As mentioned here it definately has side benefits. Have a character that you love but wish desperately you'd chosen a different name..... Wait till you have 2 free transfers, find a server that already has a character with that name (or go create a character on that server with the same name .. shhhhh don't tell them I said that lol) , then transfer your beloved character to that server. Of course the first time you log on your going to get a free name change because your character's name already exists there. Then just use your 2nd free transfer to go back to your old server. NOW.. IF the free transfer did not exist to accomplish that your best bet would be to simply but a rename token from the on line store.. otherwise you'd need to buy 2 server transfers to accomplish the same thing.

Personally I have used mine, along with a few I purchased, to transfer characters. A few older 50 that I didn't have the heart to delete but never play anymore retired to Exalted to make room for new characters using Time Manipulation, Beam Weapons and Street Justice. A few characters I had on other servers found their way to Virtue (my home).

I realize there are players out there that don't care to do any of the things mentioned and wont but plenty of us are and here's the thing..
NC soft easily could have not given us anything at all and just let those of us that wanted to transfer characters PAY for the priviledge. Its better to have something you may or may not use than to have absolutely nothing at all.


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Originally Posted by SwellGuy View Post
I see your problem. You believe part of the $15 is buying a server transfer token you don't want rather than it being a bonus freebie that you don't want.
Right. It's a bonus freebie that I probably wont use, but nevertheless I'm glad to have just in case I might need it.

I see my $15 as a subscription to play the game, and as long as I get freebies on top of that, then that's fine. I'm not expecting to get all content in the game as well as $15 per month in store purchases. That, as someone else said, would just be bad business.

Here's an idea: those who are complaining about the free server transfer, go open a gas station. When you sell someone gas, also give them the same dollar amount in free groceries. Let's see how long you stay in business.


 

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I'm not overly fussed about the free transfer either. Saying that however, 2 server transfers = a free name change which is very handy


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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I'm not sure why examples for these types of things always assume you have over a hundred characters, which "proves" it's pretty cheap. I could do the same thing in reverse. 1 server with 1 character for a total of $20 per character! That's pretty damn expensive!
Only problem with that logic is that the game still gives VIP's 192 free slots (as well as the ability to get another 576) whether a player chooses to use them or not. It's not the fault of the company if a player refuses to use the game features to it's full potential.

The only way it wouldn't be a bargain is if it only applied to existing characters or individual characters and had to be purchased again for new characters.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Inkblaster View Post
I think I'm at tier 8, another tier and in another month it will really not make sense for me to pay $14.99 for what amounts to $5.00 worth of points, for me and my playstyle.
Yeah, for some people this is true. Anyone who doesn't care about Incarnate stuff, for example, doesn't lose much if they drop to Premium. Let's see, you would also have to buy each Signature Story Arc individually. There are some other minor things that I don't recall offhand.


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And the business sense thing doesn't fly, when Champions offers their subscribers all content for 'free'.
It flies just fine. This is not a F2P game and this game is not that game anyway.


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It's like a magazine subscription, I subscribe for the year, I get a lower price than if I buy each issue at the newstand.
Yep, works the same way here. It only costs me $11 per month since I buy for a year at a time.


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The current model is counter to that, doesn't repay loyalty, which is not good business sense.
Well, that part about not repaying loyalty is false, so the comment about business sense is irrelevant.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Only problem with that logic is that the game still gives VIP's 192 free slots (as well as the ability to get another 576) whether a player chooses to use them or not. It's not the fault of the company if a player refuses to use the game features to it's full potential.

The only way it wouldn't be a bargain is if it only applied to existing characters or individual characters and had to be purchased again for new characters.
So enhancement slots are a steal at their current price because every player is supposed to have 200 characters? Am I supposed to just make characters so I can feel the "value" of those enhancement slots, or am I expected to actually somehow play 200 characters across every server? Actually, don't answer that. Because either answer is dumb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU View Post
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Only problem with that logic is that the game still gives VIP's 192 free slots (as well as the ability to get another 576) whether a player chooses to use them or not. It's not the fault of the company if a player refuses to use the game features to it's full potential.

The only way it wouldn't be a bargain is if it only applied to existing characters or individual characters and had to be purchased again for new characters.
Just because it's a global unlock doesn't mean it's a bargain.

And as far as the free server transfers go, I used them and I'll use them again. But I guess I'm just one of those most people that don't want them.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
16 servers with 12 character slots per server for a total of 192 slots comes to roughly ten cents per character. Seems pretty cheap to me.
And if I had just won the lottery a world wide cruise round the world would seem pretty cheap to me. It's not cheap it's expensive. The more characters you have available the better return you get for your investment, but it is by no means cheap.