Street Justice and general points refunds.

You walked out of a Jackie Chan movie?

Dead to me, you are dead to me


Also: Claire Forlani, mmmmm!

They had him on wires. It doesn't count as a Jackie Chan movie.

Heh.

I could be wrong, but I don't beleive movie theatres are obligated (legally, morally, or ethically) to give refunds. They have no way of knowing what movies a patron will like. Also, movie theaters have no way of improving their individual cut of a distributed film. I love Hudson Hawk, yet I am sure many people got their money back after watching it.

The fact that theaters do so as a favor to the customer is very nice, however.

Restaurants are a bit different, to give a counter-example. I go to a particular restaurant because of its' reputation for fresh, quality ingredients, well-prepared. They don't serve the same food to everyone by definition, and they are prepared to change my individual meal to my liking and needs within reason. They, IMHO, are obligated to give refunds for selling poor food.

When purchasing a period of access to the exact same electronic good as a hundred thousand other people, you are not required or able to tailor it to one user's preference.

In fact, the opposite is required.

You know when they see you've been using the set for a bit now you are less likely to get anything. If you want a refund you should ask for it at the time not later down the road.

What you call "nice", I call being run intelligently as a business. They certainly were not doing it because we were friends.

Nothing wrong with it being both.

"Disaster Movie" pissed me off so bad I forgot to ask for my refund

The chipmunk scene from the commercials was the best part. And even that ended up sucking when you see how long it went on.
I think I once heard them say they get their soda for free... yet they apparently pay nearly $3-5 a cup and gotta charge us that for the "free" soda...

some theaters offer you a free refill if you buy the big soda, as close to free as it gets lol

So you got your money back.

That doesn't mean they were obligated to do it. Being obligated to do something means you have no choice in the matter. They chose to give you your money back.

I'm absolutely positive there is no policy in place at that establishment that says they HAVE to give someone a refund if they say they didn't like a movie they saw there. If there were that theater would quickly be out of business when people start demanding refunds for every movie they ever see there. Because people will lie about not liking a movie if it means they got to see it for free. And if they know a theater has a policy of full refunds if you don't enjoy the movie (which is no fault of the theaters), people will go out of their way to go to that particular theater to see a free movie.

So, no, they were not obligated to give you a refund. The fact that the theater is still in business illustrates that nicely.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

On the flipside, simply because you find them reasonable doesn't make it so either.

You seem to be assuming every person had access to the Street Justice set while it was in BETA, and were able to afford the time to level a character there and test it out completely. You also seem to be ignoring the new players coming in who don't really get (IMO) a good method of trying out powersets before purchasing them.

Just for the record, I was in the i21 BETA and did get to test this set out before buying it. That said, I can understand there are those out there who did not have the opportunity I had by being in the i21 BETA. I am not in any way asking for a refund. I am simply expressing an opinion that the store/game in general can use some improvements when it comes to allowing customers to better preview/test an item out before paying real money for it.

The means exists. Whether or not it is "reasonable" is entirely subjective.

1) Foot Stomp only has a target cap of 10, not 15.

2) Super Strength has one of the worst Melee ST DPS attack chains in the entire game.

Unless you mean the attack chain that only uses two Super Strength attacks and supplements with 2 attacks from OUTSIDE OF THE POWER SET.


You couldn't possibly mean that attack chain though, because that would be incredibly stupid.

You mean like the "COH Subscriber Beta" that is LISTED IN THE LAUNCHER ever time you go to load the game, as an option?

All VIPs were in the Beta. No one was special. EVERY VIP had the chance to test out this set. EVERYONE.

EVERYONE had access to the beta forums to read the feedback thread on StJ. EVERYONE.

Yes, there were reasonable ways to preview this set. Because someone was too lazy to bother doing so does NOT mean that it wasn't available to them.

Now why don't movie theatres here do that? If they did, I'd never have to pay for a movie again in my life.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Heh, a friend of mine got his FREE COMP TICKETS refunded.

Because he actually watched Battlefield Earth.

*shudder*

What about the fact that StJ is available on Test?

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Disturbing isn't it.

Not assumption. Fact. Anyone who wanted to could have gone to Beta and tested it themselves. All VIPs had access to the beta that Street Justice was in.

Big thread on the forums from a redname telling people to ask for a level bump on the beta server if they wanted to test out the higher levels of a powerset. So, time to level was a non-issue.

You mean the new players who don't know enough about the game to know if something is good or bad, or even if it's working correctly? Those new players?

As could anyone else who was so inclined. Anyone with an active subscription could have beta tested that powerset.

Anyone who did NOT beta test it could have:

-Asked someone who did for details about it.
-[Typed the name of the powers in their in-game chat window like this to see what they did]
-Looked in Mid's for the numbers, which were released the very next day after release.
-Watched the videos that had been floating around for several weeks prior to it's release.
-Asked people in-game what they thought of it after a couple days before spending money on it.

For the record, the devs have never given us the numbers of a set before it hits the live servers. EVER. They do that so if they have to change something about the set at the last minute, they aren't changing something they already said would be a certain way.

When it did go live, the information was available within hours if you simply looked for it.

I'd hardly call all that unreasonable methods of obtaining information.

For an analogy, do you simply accept what an automaker tells you about their product before buying a car from them? Or do you look for information from people who aren't being paid to tell you the product is great?

An automaker isn't going to tell you that their cupholders are too shallow and your drink will frequently fall out of them. They aren't going to tell you the gearshift is in an awkward location. They won't tell you the pedals are too far apart. They won't tell you that the vehicle rides like a truck and is extremely noisy on the highway. If you want to know those things, you ask someone who actually owns one or has driven one before.

What they WILL tell you is all the good features of the car, such as it's exceptional fuel mileage and above average storage space. Car commercials are all very similar. They will all tell you the things about their vehicle that are better than their competitors, while ignoring the things their competitor out did them on. If one truck has better gas mileage, they will tell you that, while the competitor will emphasize the better towing or hauling capacity their truck has.

Don't rely on what the makers of a product tell you about it. If you want to know what it's really like, ask someone who has experience with it. Even if the devs did let us preview powersets before we buy them, that isn't going to tell us squat about how that set plays at 50, or how it synergizes with other powersets.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

For anyone truly interested in this there are several tools available and information resources available. Claiming that you didn't know them or didn't want to bother finding them doesn't really fly.

I don't see where I claimed to not know where information was?

I don't disagree, yet there is a difference (at least to me) between looking at build info in Mids versus actually playing it.

Bad analogy really. I'm able to test drive that car myself. I can sit in it and see what the seat feels like, how it performs, what the stereo sounds like, whether I feel the cup holder is too shallow etc. I can go to several dealerships and look at it with various options it may come with. I can get a personal, hands on look at the car myself that no amount of reading or asking other others will provide.

Hence, the basis for expressing an opinion that the game provide a better mechanism for testing how a set plays so customers can make better informed purchase decisions.

New players to the game don't count?

Incidentally, anyone who is satisfied with seeing a picture and reading some jumble of numbers from Mids before spending their cash PM me. We have a crap ton of beautiful swampland for sale here in Florida that you will enjoy!