Street Justice and general points refunds.

Could you elaborate because I don't recall any lies about Freedom at all.
What does that have to do with CoH:Freedom, which is a hybrid game and not free to play?

But VIPs are not forced to buy extra. They can choose to buy extra if they feel they want more than their stipend provides, but they are certainly not forced to buy extra.

Is it? I didn't know it was until you told me just then

For free, how? If all you're getting back is the points, you can't use those points for anything else because then they won't be available for getting your power set back. NCSoft already has the cash money for those points so they're not losing anything by your scenario. And I honestly doubt it would be worth anyone's time to juggle several different purchases for any length of time.

As for leveling to 50 in three days, people usually do that because they want to PLAY lvl 50s (iTrials, IOs, etc) not because they want to shelve the character.

Anyone who can do iTrials is a subscriber, and thus exempted from this situation.

Good point. Chrysler made cars for nearly a hundred years so it stands to reason their operators knew everything possible about what consumers wanted in a car and had nothing else to learn. Wait... Why am I speaking of them in the past tense again?

Subscribers still have to buy select sets from the store so I'm not following you.

Unless there was a technical glitch with billing or the product was changed before going live, you are not entitled to a refund.

You are correct; I shouldn't post while missioning.

Your a Lie!!!

So they're likely still getting paid for.

These edge cases of people powerleveling a character up to 50 in three days and then permanently shelving them just to save a few dollars aren't very convincing to me but then I don't work for NCSoft anyway.

There is a reason why StJ doesn't have a large AoE area attack like Super Strength, you're not super ******* powered.

Currently there is one (well, maybe two) methods of adding points to the system.

• Buy them outrght
• Get them as part of your sub

If you start allowing refunds of point transactions, you now have to figure out how to remove the item from every aspect of the user's account and refund the points. You also have to come up with logic for "breaking" scenarios, like "What if they have a StJ character they haven't deleted? Does the toon and everything on it just *POOF*? Is it locked? What if that slot is one they paid for? How can a player get in to strip items off the toon before deleting it? What happens if the player changes their mind later and buys it again?

Basically a huge can of technical "worms". When the simple, straightforward and CORRECT solution is "NO REFUNDS".

You'll start arguing that it's "just one time."

Until the next time. And the next. And the next.
You can argue for any arbitrary time limit you want. Someone is always going to fall afoul of it and want an exception made.
Sooner or later they're ALL exceptions.

Rather than allowing dishonest players to abuse such a system (and yes, it WOULD be abused) they simply avoid it with the "no refunds" policy.



So you believe that this game isn't inventoried and tagged to high heaven?
I'll just step around a corner since most people don't react well to someone laughing in their face.

Basically each and every one of these player options are a tick someplace in the player account. And every item in the game has its own unique ID#.


That doesn't mean that simply turning it back off is easy or straightforward.

There are people who'd abuse the refund period. And any arbitrary timeframe could be argued. My argument is easier and requires less dev and database interaction.

You buy it, it's yours. If you don't like it, the problem, like the item, is still yours.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

I think you're overstating the complexity of it. There's already a mechanism for characters with "invalid" powersets; if you're not a VIP and haven't bought Demon Summoning for instance, your Demon summoning characters from your previous paid-sub days are now locked. No drama about "POOF" or "How can they strip it?", it's just locked. The same thing would be appropriate for refunded points -- your StJ characters are no longer accessible in game.

I thought it was painfully obvious that I was refering to physical inventory but if it makes you feel better, I'll go around a corner before rolling my eyes.

This really isn't an argument in your favor. Are you actually saying that it's harder now because things are digitally tagged? Hang on, I need to hit the corner again.

This isn't an argument that it's not.

There's people who abuse any policy. It's up to the business to decide what the value is in pleasing the rest of their customers versus those who try to hit the loopholes. I personally have doubts about the outlier cases being enough of a reason to refuse a refund period but, again, I don't work for NCSoft. I'm just giving my opinion as a consumer of what would be nice for me and appreciated.

Well, no they don't. They don't have to buy anything at all unless they want to do so. Admittedly if they want to have everything they do have to buy select sets. But only if they want those sets. And unless they want every set as it comes out they can still eventually buy them using the points provided just for being a subscriber, so even if they do buy them is doesn't cost anything in money beyond what the sub already costs.

-------

Here's a question: instead of arguing with a bunch of players who have no decision making authority about whether or not PS will refund the points for the set has the OP actually bothered to contacted support and find out?

As of earlier this afternoon he hadn't, but maybe he could update everyone on his efforts and resolve the issue in a decisive manner by doing something other than whinging, backpedaling, and arguing on the forums. (Yeah, that's going to happen.)

Uh, what? Your statement has no meaning. Or at least all the meanings i can parse are flat out wrong. Please explain.

More correctly, if I may:

You have purchased permission to use this item. We do not choose to retract the permission.

No. It's just your opinion. Opinions are like ********. Everyone has one. Not all of them are nice.

Never mind that people might be attached to the community, the gameplay, or their characters here.

The minute you start trying to make a quantitative argument like this, you're pretty much doomed, as you know you can't actually support such hyperbole. Why, then, do you continue to try?

If the player base is so attached, why would it?

Also, come up with a description of "better" that isn't completely subjective and maybe you'd actually have a point.


I'd argue it's a bit more than "location location location". Part of that is a credit to the devs. But no small portion of that is the player community as well. This game even trounced an updated version of ITSELF.

As such, it's a BIT more complex than the childishly simplistic situation you present.

Where? When? Please provide support for this accusation.

Out of hand? Apparently you're imagining that you see something the rest of us aren't.

First, this isn't a free-to-play game. This game's model is designated "hybrid". There are some free-to-play components in the game, true. But at NO point was the game ever announced by Paragon as shifting to F2P.

Second, "best" is completely subjective. I PVP VERY seldom and I really have exactly ZERO interest in PVP-centric systems. So my view is that such games are not "the best".

All you're doing is stating preference, not a fact. As such, I'd rather argue about something that's more productive. Like transubstantiation. Or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Or what the sound of one hand clapping is like.

Forced?

*Looks around for the Paragon Studios guys and his squad of NCSoft goons holding guns to his head*

I must've missed them.

Let's get this straight. NOBODY is "forced to buy anything in this game. EVER.

Let me repeat this for emphasis.

NOBODY is "forced" to buy anything in this game. EVER.

Real arguments here. Not hyperbole.

If a VIP player wants something, they can simply save up for it.
If the VIP player wants something RIGHT FRICKIN NAO, they make THEMSELVES buy the points. It's not Paragon pushing the issue.

Nobody promised that VIPs would automatically get every last thing introduced to the game for nothing. They're trying to increase revenue, and such a move from a community that's been screaming "Shut up and take my money!" for so long would be utterly senseless.

If you want to feel used and butt-hurt by this fact, the problem is still yours.

They've already given us the in-game ability to unlock many things in the game already. What they're holding back in the points system are LUXURIES.

And, again, this is NOT a free-to-play game.

Maybe you just need to actually pay attention to the details rather than going off on a tear due to wild suppositions and incorrectly assimilated data.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

And I'm not here to argue your feelings on the subject.

These corner case scenarios have to be taken into account. Otherwise they have gaps in their system that yet someone else will exploit.

Inventory is inventory. Period. Simply because theirs is electronic in nature doesn't relieve them from the book keeping.


No. Simply that they have to come up with a system that will strip the items out and deal with edge-case scenarios.


It's pretty friggin hard to abuse "no refunds".

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Their free to play business model is so bad, they went out of their way to say they were not converting to a free to play business model and executed plan that had no chance of looking like a free to play business model.

I mean, its pretty clear their failure is fundamental: they didn't even try to shift the game to a free to play model, and as a result almost nothing they do looks like a successful free to play model.



I'm not sure how much longer I can do this without resorting to hand puppets. Possibly unicorn hand puppets.

It'll pass

like a kidney stone