Street Justice and general points refunds.

Clearly they can delete permissions.

They did so in beta.

Would that even apply? No goods are exchanged across international borders. Servers and game is contained in US and you are allowed to remotely access it, but you own nothing.

Well of course some people don't think Stj performs up to standard. Over a hundred thousand people play this game. Name any power, and there are a thousand people who don't think it performs up to standard.

Well if they don't accept UK law, they wouldn't be able to do business with UK players.

And they certainly wouldn't charge us in pound stirling.

Not saying rejecting the law, but does law take into account situations where there is no tangible product? Where the only service provided is temporary access to an online environment housed in another nation and of which the payee has no control or ownership of.

Yes, clearly, because someone spending 2 days (not) defending a bad buying decision (as opposed to the purchase of a bad product, something completely different, and not this) on a forum and then giving in to them, thus seemingly justifying their unjustified outrage would probably have no fallout at all.

Arguments have been made refuting your perception of StJ as a 'bad powerset'. Arguments have been made refuting your idea that you 'deserve' a 'satisfaction guaranteed or your money back' level of refund. Few places offer that kind of refund anymore, and software nearly never does, for reasons already stated in this thread.

Repeated threats of quitting seem to be in your history, as noted by other authors in the thread. 'Threatening to quit' to 'get your way' - that would seem to imply a head covering worn on the wrong end of one's body, to imply internet vernacular. Someone else already mentioned you might have waited and read more info on the forums about it before buying - I'll go as far as to say that if you value your $10, why would you gamble it before knowing that you could be less than 100% satisified? The McDonalds example which you refuted, just replace it with 'You ate 1/3 of the hamburger'. You think they'll take it back?

There IS such a thing as 'a Bad Customer', and the customer is NOT always right. And yes, the customer can 'vote with his/her feet', as it were, if they think they are being mistreated. But sometimes it is worse for the business to cave to an unreasonable demand of one customer to keep their business vs. letting that customer go - for example, I hope Zwillinger is not wasting time here reading these particular forum posts when he could be doing something of more value - like, say, watching paint dry, or explaining quantum mechanics to a three-toed sloth.

We can only hope. GLHF.

If there's been "some discussion" of it? So what? That's what gamers do. They discuss, they number-crunch, they power game.

The AOEs are your own personal hobby-horse. Personally, my StJ character doesn't have any unusual problem with his AoEs hitting. Then again, I know how to line up cones, having played Dark scrappers and Defenders since 2004.

What level did you play your character to? Did you fill his slots? With what? I think this is probably a user error more than a powerset error.

AoE's are the current meta-game of city of heroes.

StJ has great single target damage, but mowing down a crap load of mobs is the current meta of CoH. It's probably nice for EB/AV's but well solo you aren't going to run into a lot of those, and in team the debuffs/buff aspect is going to be more important.

My own personal bug bear with it, is that the first cone seems a bit iffy, some times it'll only affect one mob when it looks like it should hit several, other times it'll hit several when it looks like it should only hit one.

This makes no sense to me but maybe you can explain it better. NCSoft doesn't have to do "inventory" per se because they're working with digital goods that don't really exist. They don't sell you a box of Street Justice, you just get your account flagged at StJ enabled.

NCSoft, I would assume, could tell you at any given moment how many accounts are StJ enabled so even if it was an issue, they could give you an accounting easily enough.

As for revolving purchases, provided you limit the refund period, I don't see an issue but I'll admit I'm shooting from the hip here.

Yeah, I don't think that analogy works very well at all.

In a game where even under MARTy, you can level to 50 in 3 days, the refund window would have to be less than, say, 8 hours to be meaningful.

Which would (ironically?) make it meaningless.

3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 28481117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381 96442881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190 91456485669234603486104543266482133936072602491412 73724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364 36789259036001133053054882046652138414695194151160 9...

Is this enough?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Not bad....how about some Cool wHip for that Pie......

You're saying it weird.

how does the time to 50 factor in?
I don't get that.

Generally if you go to return an item, the store will want said item unused. If you buy a set, get to 50 in a day with it then declare you don't like it, you've already used the hell out of it. Paragon Studios aren't selling you virtual goods that you can give back. They're selling you licenses. You can't "give back" the time spent using said license. What's being asked is, effectively, the ability to rent a set.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I am still not getting it. I still see value in the sets that I have even though I have some 50s of those sets.

I understand about having a certain period of time, but I just don't understand why the time would be shorter than an outlier time for getting to 50.

Because I see the value of a powerset to be greater than merely arriving at 50, I would be fine if the time period were set to be just over the average time to 50 so that you can really try a set out.

Of course, I'd be fine with 30 min as well.

Let me put it this way. Say you have a grace period of 7 days. You buy a set, play it for five days, then return it. Character becomes locked. You go on vacation over the weekend, then come back and buy it again. Character unlocks. You play it for another five days, then return it again and take a break on the weekend. Come next week you buy the set again and then return it again at the end of the week.

That's not buying a set. That's renting a set. For free, might I add.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Easy. You buy Street Justice and run a character up to 50 built on SJ then demand a refund because you don't like the set.

The thing is you got full use out of the set by getting a character from level 1 - 50.

All your pies belong to me.

I suppose we should worship the creators of Ultima online as gods then? Also let's call up the writers of Harry Potter and Twilight so we can worship them as the greatest writers of all time.

The business model for CoX is ridiculous, that's just well known. The -only- reason this game has done so well is because it's the first ever super hero themed MMO. Plain and simple. People got attached, and now that people expect the same vast world from a brand new MMO as they do a 5 year plus MMO it's pretty easy to keep a well established player base. If a new super hero MMO came out tomorrow, that offered better gameplay and a larger world, this game would be dead in a month. Sure you can say "Well why isn't it dead after DCUO?" that can easily be answered with one word, Sony. They flopped two HUGE MMO names in one year, most likely because most developer teams are bass-ackwards. In fact the MMO industry is, a lot of higher ups are complete morons who did nothing to deserve their job other than know the right people. They're kind of like that one fellow off of step-brothers who thought being a doctor was a family business. The point here is CoX is one of those "Right place at the right time." MMO's, they released a game that literally had -no- direct competition.

Back to the real point of this thread, they've already lied multiple times about various freedom aspects. It's getting rather out of hand, clearly they don't have a clear idea on how they actually want things to work and are basically playing it by ear. For starters -all- the best free to play games are based around pvp, you can try and argue that as much as you want but it's true. Giving Vip players limited points so they are -forced- to buy extra. I guess they also forgot that basically all successful f2p's allow players access to everything without subscription, they also allow players the ability to buy things that would normally cost money with in game currency. So unless they have the worst free to play business model ever, I would assume they either think they deserve more than $15 a month or need more than $15 a month. Either way very little about this makes sense. Maybe they are gathering funds for the next CoH, or maybe they are just a money hungry corporation that fails to see the bigger picture.