Discussion: Extended Live Server Maintenance - Thursday, September 22, 2011
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-09-21 10:36 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Quote:
People have a perfect idea what they pay for: they pay for being able to play a game. Obviously reading the EULA confuses you on that point, so I guess the lawyers have done their job. Step back a moment from the EULA and consider what you're paying for. If you're not paying to be able to play the game, then by all means quit, because you have absolutely no reason to pay that subscription.|
Originally Posted by Soul_System
People complaining here obviously have no idea what they pay for. Try reading the EULA sometime :P.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Issen
The one question that keeps getting asked over and over again is the one NO-ONE will answer:
"Would you rather they fix these problems NOW, or wait until Freedom goes offical and deal with potentially longer and more frequent downtimes just so you can enjoy the Headstart?" |
The answer is: of course I'd rather that these problems be fixed as soon as possible. That doesn't make the desire for compensation any less valid. Regardless of when these service interruptions happen, and regardless of the reasons for them (which is valid, that was never argued), they are still interruptions of the service which people expect to get.
Personally, I could care less if I don't get any compensation. I never asked for it, and I don't feel the need. However I feel that it's completely legitimate to ask for it in this case (and it's also legitimate for NCsoft/Paragon not to provide it), and it angers me that people get put down for doing so, and lawyerisms get bandied about. It never helps to tell people that what they feel is wrong, especially when the basis for their complaint is valid (they couldn't play for extended periods of time). I see no logical reason to argue against the request for compensation. What point does this argument serve? Making you feel "right"? Protecting the devs?
Quote:
A player's happiness is largely dependent on themselves. Looking to NCSoft to make you happy is not NCSoft's problem.
|
Originally Posted by rsclark
The context here is not "playing the game". It is "keeping the customers happy". The EULA has nothing to say on that topic.
|
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Let's talk again after all your characters have been deleted by a freak database accident.
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
A player's happiness is largely dependent on themselves. Looking to NCSoft to make you happy is not NCSoft's problem.
|
No one's freaked out yet about another eight hours tomorrow?
/popcorn
Quote:
It's the final phase of the upgrades |
Originally Posted by Brillig
No one's freaked out yet about another eight hours tomorrow?
/popcorn |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
If the techies I know are typical, there's no such thing as a "final phase" when it come to servers! |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's the final phase of the upgrades
|
Defiant: "@Felix"
ATO Felix - Gamma Anne - Fire me Boy!
Kit the Kat - Black Felix - Gremlet
Shadow Sorceress - Dr Doom and Gloom - Rob Rubble
Mitzy White - Wanda Smith - Henry Remo
Quote:
Actually, you can argue against the request for compensation: it's rather unreasonable. You KNEW there would be lots of maintenance going on in preparation for when Freedom goes official. I mean, they had to. They were going to be dealing with a server load approaching exponential levels of magnitude, and there's of course all the bugs and fixes that go on as well.|
Originally Posted by General_CoH
People have a perfect idea what they pay for: they pay for being able to play a game. Obviously reading the EULA confuses you on that point, so I guess the lawyers have done their job. Step back a moment from the EULA and consider what you're paying for. If you're not paying to be able to play the game, then by all means quit, because you have absolutely no reason to pay that subscription.
I'm not going to go back and see if it has been answered, so I'll answer it myself just so next time anyone claims it hasn't been answered I'll know it's not true. The answer is: of course I'd rather that these problems be fixed as soon as possible. That doesn't make the desire for compensation any less valid. Regardless of when these service interruptions happen, and regardless of the reasons for them (which is valid, that was never argued), they are still interruptions of the service which people expect to get. Personally, I could care less if I don't get any compensation. I never asked for it, and I don't feel the need. However I feel that it's completely legitimate to ask for it in this case (and it's also legitimate for NCsoft/Paragon not to provide it), and it angers me that people get put down for doing so, and lawyerisms get bandied about. It never helps to tell people that what they feel is wrong, especially when the basis for their complaint is valid (they couldn't play for extended periods of time). I see no logical reason to argue against the request for compensation. What point does this argument serve? Making you feel "right"? Protecting the devs? |
So you're wanting compensation for downtime we all knew was going to happen anyway?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
No one's freaked out yet about another eight hours tomorrow?
/popcorn |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
No one's freaked out yet about another eight hours tomorrow?
/popcorn |
cry compensation! and let slip the kittens of war!!!!!!!!!
Defiant: "@Felix"
ATO Felix - Gamma Anne - Fire me Boy!
Kit the Kat - Black Felix - Gremlet
Shadow Sorceress - Dr Doom and Gloom - Rob Rubble
Mitzy White - Wanda Smith - Henry Remo
Quote:
Amazing how loud the silence is. It's kind of like when the jungle drums stop beating.
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
No one's freaked out yet about another eight hours tomorrow?
/popcorn |
Quote:
Our saying is "when you find a customer that is always right, hire them."
|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Our saying is the customer is always right.
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I'm going with the fact that most of the EU players, the most vocal bunch (with good reason) are sensible unlike me and are safe away in their beds.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Amazing how loud the silence is. It's kind of like when the jungle drums stop beating.
|
I would have a good moan as I do think it's starting to take the mick but to be honest, what's the point.
What I'm going to do in good obsessive gamer fashion is stay up and pull an all nighter to get my gaming in before the servers get shut down.
Oh, after watching episode 9 of The Guild.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by General_CoH
Let's talk again after all your characters have been deleted by a freak database accident.
|
Ah. Now we are playing "Make up a horrible scenario and be mad at Paragon about it"?
Why didn't I get the memo?
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
No one's freaked out yet about another eight hours tomorrow?
/popcorn |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
You pay for access to the game servers. Such access is understood to have downtime either planned or otherwise. What constitutes excessive downtime that deserves compensation is purely subjective and is nowhere spelled out in your agreement. The fact they provide compensation of any form at all is in fact a nicety. In all honesty the down times are similar to car repairs. Only if its excessive and not justified by the actions needed to make things run right do you have any inkling of a right to even complain. Nobody here is qualified to judge what is excessive because we do not know the specifics of their infrastructures, the unplanned problems, or what exactly they are doing. So, knowing that we base everything on ignorance, we go WWWWWAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Entitlement!!|
Originally Posted by General_CoH
People have a perfect idea what they pay for: they pay for being able to play a game. Obviously reading the EULA confuses you on that point, so I guess the lawyers have done their job. Step back a moment from the EULA and consider what you're paying for. If you're not paying to be able to play the game, then by all means quit, because you have absolutely no reason to pay that subscription.
I'm not going to go back and see if it has been answered, so I'll answer it myself just so next time anyone claims it hasn't been answered I'll know it's not true. The answer is: of course I'd rather that these problems be fixed as soon as possible. That doesn't make the desire for compensation any less valid. Regardless of when these service interruptions happen, and regardless of the reasons for them (which is valid, that was never argued), they are still interruptions of the service which people expect to get. Personally, I could care less if I don't get any compensation. I never asked for it, and I don't feel the need. However I feel that it's completely legitimate to ask for it in this case (and it's also legitimate for NCsoft/Paragon not to provide it), and it angers me that people get put down for doing so, and lawyerisms get bandied about. It never helps to tell people that what they feel is wrong, especially when the basis for their complaint is valid (they couldn't play for extended periods of time). I see no logical reason to argue against the request for compensation. What point does this argument serve? Making you feel "right"? Protecting the devs? |
Besides most people really don't care what they reasons are, they are just angry they can't play period. Must be a good game
.
Okay, here's the thing.
1. All y'all complaining about the amount of downtime? You clearly don't know much about running a big server infrastructure.
2. Apparently, neither does ncsoft.
:P
Quote:
Not Always Right.
|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Our saying is the customer is always right.
|
If you bought a six pack of coke and one was empty you'd expect it to be replaced. That's all these people are saying.
They paid money for product (in this case game time) and feel they aren't receiving said product.
They just want their coke. Even if it is marginal. In fact if it IS so marginal as some people keep harping on about then they should just do it, get it over with, and why should you care at all? You'll get it to and it won't impact you at all.
Now we all know it won't happen but there it is.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Just want to chime in on the "to compensate or not" issue.
Most customer services company employees will recognise the following piece of corporate-speak: "A complaint is an opportunity".
There are three stages to any valid complaint.
1) Cause.
2) Making the complaint.
3) Resolution.
In this case, we have the first two stages pretty clearly out there: The high quantity of server downtime this month has severely impacted EU playtime. Some EU players are unhappy (and I am one of them).
The only thing outstanding is the resolution to the complaint. This could range from nothing, all the way up to free playtime forever for affected players. What some players have chosen to do is make known what they feel would be adequate compensation for the complaint. It has ranged from "80 Paragon Points" up to "a week of free play time".
I have personally chosen to leave the form of compensation up to Paragon Studios, rather than pinning a value on it. If I find their chosen form of compensation inadequate, I will deal with that then.
Hyperstrike, the reason you're experiencing so much vitriol is because you have effectively said (intentionally or not) "you do not have the right to ask for a resolution to your complaint, nor to propose what you feel is suitable recompense".
Which, I'm afraid, is tantamount to saying that the complaint is invalid.
Me, I'm going to leave it up to NCsoft to decide what they're going to offer me as compensation for effectively nuking my available playtime this month. But I do not believe that "nothing" is valid recompense for customers making what even you have said is a valid complaint.
NCsoft have the "opportunity" I mentioned to make me a happy customer, regardless of my complaint. We'll see if they seize it.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
Quote:
After that you deserve another quotable:|
Originally Posted by Shadowe
Just want to chime in on the "to compensate or not" issue.
Most customer services company employees will recognise the following piece of corporate-speak: "A complaint is an opportunity". There are three stages to any valid complaint. 1) Cause. 2) Making the complaint. 3) Resolution. In this case, we have the first two stages pretty clearly out there: The high quantity of server downtime this month has severely impacted EU playtime. Some EU players are unhappy (and I am one of them). The only thing outstanding is the resolution to the complaint. This could range from nothing, all the way up to free playtime forever for affected players. What some players have chosen to do is make known what they feel would be adequate compensation for the complaint. It has ranged from "80 Paragon Points" up to "a week of free play time". I have personally chosen to leave the form of compensation up to Paragon Studios, rather than pinning a value on it. If I find their chosen form of compensation inadequate, I will deal with that then. Hyperstrike, the reason you're experiencing so much vitriol is because you have effectively said (intentionally or not) "you do not have the right to ask for a resolution to your complaint, nor to propose what you feel is suitable recompense". Which, I'm afraid, is tantamount to saying that the complaint is invalid. Me, I'm going to leave it up to NCsoft to decide what they're going to offer me as compensation for effectively nuking my available playtime this month. But I do not believe that "nothing" is valid recompense for customers making what even you have said is a valid complaint. NCsoft have the "opportunity" I mentioned to make me a happy customer, regardless of my complaint. We'll see if they seize it. |
Shadowe was both eloquent and wise, incredible considering it is 2am.
In general, I dismiss requests for compensation for MMO downtime, but I gotta say -- this is exceptional downtime, as such goes.
Quote:
We had a customer who had us plasma cut a lacework band into a .25" aluminum plate as part of her sculpture. She thought it looked great until she saw it was visible from both sides of the plate. She wanted cutouts through only one side of the plate. As in you could look through the cutout plate of metal to whatever was on the other side, but only from one side.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Our saying is the customer is always right.
|
So, how would your "the customer is always right" philosophy resolve a demand that involves violating conventional laws of spacetime?
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Quote:
Pft. Well Willy Wonka you are NOT.
|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
We had a customer who had us plasma cut a lacework band into a .25" aluminum plate as part of her sculpture. She thought it looked great until she saw it was visible from both sides of the plate. She wanted cutouts through only one side of the plate. As in you could look through the cutout plate of metal to whatever was on the other side, but only from one side.
So, how would your "the customer is always right" philosophy resolve a demand that involves violating conventional laws of spacetime? |
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
The one question that keeps getting asked over and over again is the one NO-ONE will answer:
"Would you rather they fix these problems NOW, or wait until Freedom goes offical and deal with potentially longer and more frequent downtimes just so you can enjoy the Headstart?"