Discussion: Extended Live Server Maintenance - Thursday, September 22, 2011
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2011-09-21 10:36 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Anyone reading the EULA to determine what we're paying for can but conclude that we're part of an extortion racket. We spend time coming up with characters, backgrounds, costumes and stories that Paragon gets sole ownership of, and we pay them for the privilege of getting to do so when they feel like letting us. Luckily EULAs are not the be-all end-all of your legal rights and in places outside the US many of the more stringent clauses are overruled by local law.
The ongoing treatment of the player base outside of north america is contrary to the assurances given at multiple instances along the various merging of offices, server farms, forums and server lists. This was expected and is the reason those assurances were asked for. That there are a few overly vocal people, who aren't affected by the problems, who feel it is perfectly allowable to persecute a minority population for the greater good and that it is their duty to silence dissenting views - is also less than surprising.
Back when the servers were separate and the US got a couple of days downtime due to server issues they were given an extra double XP weekend in reparation. Other acceptable areas of compensation would be passport badges (you moved your sleep pattern to a different time zone just so you could play), PP, playtime, reward tokens and/or yellow titles of "Involuntary QA".
Edit : Personally I would also accept them getting the front loading of reward tokens working before my current sub runs out on the 17th.
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Chocolate waterfall?
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Oh, i quite agree. While i would not object to Paragon Studios doing something for us in compensation for the aggravation it has caused many players i don't have any particular demands of my own.
Well, i would ask that they don't bring back the pirate costume offer. That would annoy me. A lot. Implementing Carp Melee and Carp Armor would be acceptable. i know. Aside from not having a Great Glass Elevator i'm rather comfortable with that. |
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
*does some quick math*
Start Time: 3:30 a.m. PDT
Expected Duration: 8 hours
Expected Finish Time:11:30 p.m. PDT
3:30AM = 0330
1130PM = 2330
0330 + 0800 = 2330?
*head splodes at typo math error*
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My goodness you really are turning into GG. What a totally pointless and rediculous comment. |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
A player's happiness is largely dependent on themselves. Looking to NCSoft to make you happy is not NCSoft's problem.
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Life is too short to waste time reading any more of that drivel. I'm just going to make good use of that ignore function. We really shouldn't feed the trolls. In this case the troll is someone who is jumping in on a conversation between unhappy customers and NCSoft. Telling said customer he has no right to be unhappy. Now to find a post by this individual to access that function. Fortunately that will not be difficult as there are plenty to find.
In all seriousness folks this forum has become unbearable of late. There is an increasing number of smarmy, high post count losers jumping in on most threads trying to put down anyone who says anything remotely against the game or the company. It appears this company and this game are perfect and anyone with any issue is obviously a loser who doesnt know when he is well off. I'm surprised anyone dares talk about anything that they are unhappy with the way you get jumped on in this forum. Long live free speech huh?
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In the case of a case of coke, an empty (but sealed) can is one thing.|
Originally Posted by MrDead
If you bought a six pack of coke and one was empty you'd expect it to be replaced. That's all these people are saying.
They paid money for product (in this case game time) and feel they aren't receiving said product. They just want their coke. Even if it is marginal. In fact if it IS so marginal as some people keep harping on about then they should just do it, get it over with, and why should you care at all? You'll get it to and it won't impact you at all. Now we all know it won't happen but there it is. |
Getting past the checkout line and finding the case is missing a can is another.
Coming back later and going "I only got 23!" is caveat emptor.
In this case, nobody promised you 24x30 days of continual, maintenance-free uptime to the service.
I'll say this again. YOU DID NOT PAY FOR UNINTERRUPTED 24 HOUR A DAY, 30(31) DAYS A MONTH ACCESS!
What some people object to is not being given stuff by Paragon because they genuinely feel they want to do something for the players.
What they're objecting to is the "GIMME GIMME GIMME! YOU OWE ME! sentiment". Kinda like the guys who stand on the exit ramps of expressways. When you come to a stop, they immediately (and without asking) splash some water on your windshield, run a squeegee over it then demand five bucks because "they washed your windshield".
And trying to make us complicit in your "complain until they give us something to make us go away" scheme, by promising that "we'll get some too", is just as idiotic, irritating, and generally nausea-inducing.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Make the cuts at a 90 degree angle.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
We had a customer who had us plasma cut a lacework band into a .25" aluminum plate as part of her sculpture. She thought it looked great until she saw it was visible from both sides of the plate. She wanted cutouts through only one side of the plate. As in you could look through the cutout plate of metal to whatever was on the other side, but only from one side.
So, how would your "the customer is always right" philosophy resolve a demand that involves violating conventional laws of spacetime? |
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Honestly, if they're going to complain, they should take it up with customer support. I agree that their complaint is valid. It sucks for them. I'm merely pointing out that they really don't have a foot to stand on for making demands.|
Originally Posted by Shadowe
Hyperstrike, the reason you're experiencing so much vitriol is because you have effectively said (intentionally or not) "you do not have the right to ask for a resolution to your complaint, nor to propose what you feel is suitable recompense".
Which, I'm afraid, is tantamount to saying that the complaint is invalid. Me, I'm going to leave it up to NCsoft to decide what they're going to offer me as compensation for effectively nuking my available playtime this month. But I do not believe that "nothing" is valid recompense for customers making what even you have said is a valid complaint. NCsoft have the "opportunity" I mentioned to make me a happy customer, regardless of my complaint. We'll see if they seize it. |
And the whole "complain to make them give us something to go away" mentality is, for me at least, offensive.
If PARAGON, however, feels THEY need to make recompense, fine.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Facts are there have been quite a few downtime. Fact is it is annoying and angers people. Fact is those people can have and will speak about it. Another fact is the only thin as bad as a dooomie is a fanboy/girl. I dont want compensation I just want them to get it fixed or at least learn how to use the new hardware which they apparently dont know yet.
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I could say the same about a lot of the crap I've read here. Including the above statement.|
Originally Posted by ricktu
My goodness you really are turning into GG. What a totally pointless and rediculous comment.
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| Telling said customer he has no right to be unhappy. |
*SIGH*
Again, I've never said nobody has the right to be unhappy.
If you want to be unhappy, fine. What you don't have the right to do is try to coerce or annoy someone else until they do something that you'd define as "making you happy".
Again, I've never said nobody has the right to complain.
Knock yourself out!
But your right to complain has to compete with my right to point out the holes in your lines of "reason".
Don't care for someone giving you bald, unadorned truth? Toughski ****ski.
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| It appears this company and this game are perfect and anyone with any issue is obviously a loser who doesnt know when he is well off. I'm surprised anyone dares talk about anything that they are unhappy with the way you get jumped on in this forum. Long live free speech huh? |
You OBVIOUSLY haven't been reading my stuff if I've somehow given the impression I think the company and its actions are perfect.
As to free speech.
You understand that ONLY applies to the government. And even there, there's caveats.
For a private company, hosting it's own controlled venue, you have no such right. They can, at any point, shut you up/down and you have zero "rights". As they're not obliged by law to provide you with a platform for your views.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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So explain to me, apart from having nothing to complain about atm, how this would hurt you? Be offended. Please. You don't make any sense and you're ranting is pointless bordering on abusive and doesn't fix anything not to mention, again, it would literally do NOTHING to you to try to make some of these people feel less tread on.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Honestly, if they're going to complain, they should take it up with customer support. I agree that their complaint is valid. It sucks for them. I'm merely pointing out that they really don't have a foot to stand on for making demands.
And the whole "complain to make them give us something to go away" mentality is, for me at least, offensive. If PARAGON, however, feels THEY need to make recompense, fine. |
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
"Scotty, have you Always multiplied your repair estimates by a factor of four?"
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One of us is apparently not understanding the other. i'm hoping it's me.
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Originally Posted by Thany144
Make the cuts at a 90 degree angle.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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While perhaps not the most helpful comment ever you obviously misunderstood the thrust of their comment. They said essentially that happiness has nothing to do with NCsoft but instead comes from within you and the perceptions of the world that you hold. Which is all absolutely true. Which is why you have happy school teachers and suicide millionaires. One looked to the right place for happiness, themselves. The other tried to plug that hole with everything else.|
Originally Posted by ricktu
My goodness you really are turning into GG. What a totally pointless and rediculous comment.
Life is too short to waste time reading any more of that drivel. I'm just going to make good use of that ignore function. We really shouldn't feed the trolls. In this case the troll is someone who is jumping in on a conversation between unhappy customers and NCSoft. Telling said customer he has no right to be unhappy. Now to find a post by this individual to access that function. Fortunately that will not be difficult as there are plenty to find. In all seriousness folks this forum has become unbearable of late. There is an increasing number of smarmy, high post count losers jumping in on most threads trying to put down anyone who says anything remotely against the game or the company. It appears this company and this game are perfect and anyone with any issue is obviously a loser who doesnt know when he is well off. I'm surprised anyone dares talk about anything that they are unhappy with the way you get jumped on in this forum. Long live free speech huh? |
What alot of these "losers" are saying is that people are vastly misrepresenting both the rights they have and the expectations they should have. People feel as if they are owed things which they simply do not have a leg to stand on claiming. Not legally, not morally, not logically. They think they do, but they do not understand the very agreements they entered into or the actual expectations of such a platform.
They instead base their judgements on their own "I want" mentalities, and I'm sorry that's one of the most faulty, rude, biased, and selfish roads you can travel down which will always end up treading on everyone that disagrees with you while always feeling that you, personally, are right. Forget all the black and white and facts, forget the context, you know better.
It's up to us as reasonably intelligent people to realize alot of times what we feel is very much incorrect and does not match up with the actuality of the situation. Also, look up the actor-observer asymmetry. It's a sobering look at how very much the situation changes in your own eyes merely by the same actions being performed by somebody that isn't you.
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Originally Posted by eth_Nargy
Oh man, guys, sorry I'm late. I almost brought last year's book by mistake!
Wait, you mean this isn't the Condescension Class? Dang, and I already paid my tuition fees! I want a refund. |
We all come from different walks and in situations I would flounder others would excel, and vice versa. Which is why we should work to understand and be empathetic instead of selfish and divisive for the sake of furthering oneself. Of course togetherness, empathy, education, etc are enemies of capitalism. It's much easier to sell sides and insecurity
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Oh man, guys, sorry I'm late. I almost brought last year's book by mistake!
Wait, you mean this isn't the Condescension Class? Dang, and I already paid my tuition fees! I want a refund.
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Never said it would hurt me. Just that the grasping nature of some of the individuals here was offensive.|
Originally Posted by MrDead
So explain to me, apart from having nothing to complain about atm, how this would hurt you?
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| You don't make any sense and you're ranting is pointless bordering on abusive and doesn't fix anything not to mention, again, it would literally do NOTHING to you to try to make some of these people feel less tread on. |
If it doesn't make any sense to you, again, it means you're not looking at it objectively.
That you think what I've said here constitutes abuse reinforces it.
I'd suggest taking a few nice, deep breaths, and coming back to this in a week or two. Then see how offensive it looks to you.
Right now I have no further desire to attempt debate with someone who's hell-bent on ignoring anything I actually say in a frothing attempt to label me as "the bad guy" here.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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All I got out of this was 'cause I said so' and honestly I think you are.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Never said it would hurt me. Just that the grasping nature of some of the individuals here was offensive.
I'm not ranting. That you can label it such means that you simply aren't able to look at what I've said objectively. If it doesn't make any sense to you, again, it means you're not looking at it objectively. That you think what I've said here constitutes abuse reinforces it. I'd suggest taking a few nice, deep breaths, and coming back to this in a week or two. Then see how offensive it looks to you. Right now I have no further desire to attempt debate with someone who's hell-bent on ignoring anything I actually say in a frothing attempt to label me as "the bad guy" here. |
Also I don't think YOU understand what you've been saying or how it comes across not the other way around.
Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
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As someone who's not particularly invested in all this one way or the other, I figured I should let you know that although you may not intend to be, at this point you are coming across as ranting. Of the last 100 posts in this thread, 30% are by you, repeating the same arguments and points, often expressing quite a bit of frustration and annoyance, with more than one instance of FULL CAPS TO MAKE A POINT! You may not be intending a rant, and I'm sure there's a lengthy debate to be had as to whether or not it technically is ranting, but that's how it's coming across now.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
I'm not ranting.
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I get that you're trying to correct what you see as gross misconceptions, irrational stances, and general wrong headedness of those you're arguing with, but you may want to take your own advice of a few nice deep breaths and stepping back for a week or two.
Or not, as I say I'm not particularly invested in this one way or the other.
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I'm sorry you feel that way.
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Originally Posted by eth_Nargy
Wait, you mean this isn't the Condescension Class? Dang, and I already paid my tuition fees! I want a refund.
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I see what you did there.
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Originally Posted by seebs
I'm sorry you feel that way.
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Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
Was hoping to lighten the mood a bit, people are sorta jumping on each other and I don't think it really helps.
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I admit it, you got a point. It was funny too.
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Originally Posted by seebs
Was hoping to lighten the mood a bit, people are sorta jumping on each other and I don't think it really helps.
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Apparently I'm to stupid right now to make an awesome link with a picture and stuff but neverthelss sign the petition! [u]http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes[u]
I must admit, I'm getting heartily sick of this. We in Oceania are copping the outage right in the middle of prime-time once again.
I work in Change Management on massive, 24/7 systems where people can literally die if the information isn't available and correct - let me quote my mantra, tailored ever so slightly for this situation:
There's nothing like good Change Management and Quality Control.
NCSoft has repeatedly demonstrated that they have nothing like good Change Management and Quality Control.
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Pretty sure the down time for NA was the same length as for everywhere else, but I am thinking you meant "prime playing time". My shift gets done at 1:00 am Mountain Standard Time here in the USA, which was just prior to shut down. I usually head home, swap into shorts and a T-shirt and play for 2-3 hours, head to bed and sleep until around 11-12:00. That gives me a couple hours to dink around before I head to work again. Guess the projected 12 hour upgrade did affect some of the NA players, since we don't all work the "normal" shift.|
Originally Posted by EU_Damz
Dear Paragon Studios.
Please do a 12 hour downtime during NA time ONCE. Yours Damz |
I just want to be able to log in and not get mapserved 3-4 times per TF, so if I miss a couple days of playtime, but gain the ability to not leave my teamates a man short during the Rommie/Reichsman/Recluse fight...seems like a small price to pay.
On the bright side, just got an email from NCsoft, Aion 2nd aniversery with 10 days free gametime.. So thank you NCsoft, but NOT thank you Paragon Studio's.
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
Well, i would ask that they don't bring back the pirate costume offer. That would annoy me. A lot.
Implementing Carp Melee and Carp Armor would be acceptable.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...