New zone?!

Personally, I hope Rularuu (and a few other things) get deified to the level that they are on par with the Well. The incarnates are sort of like heroes and champions of myth. But currently with the well, we're navigating what feels like a monotheistic cosmos. A pantheon would be much more open, much more interesting, much more fitting to the source material and its original source material.

Give me more godlike beings or entities on par with the well. Give me our own Galactus, Vishnu, Bast and Hera.

Edit: Oh and give me my Rularuu lore tree. I want my own wisps and giant pupil-mouthed eyeball dammit!

So why can they not continue that trend? Why does every revamp HAVE to tie into a massive, multi issue arc? Why cant Dark Astoria, Boomtown, Perez Park have its own story to tell with missions, TFs tied to the events of that particular zone?

Wouldnt this be an easier way of adding new content than always creating new and connected stories?

Oh I'm very much aware of that. I really should probably have quoted the Golden Girl comment that was being responded to there as well when I posted that.

As a side note, while I'm perfectly happy getting a new zone with all its assorted fun contents (new places to go and things to do is very much a good thing in my opinion), I'd like to add my 'vote' to the idea of revamps of old and unused zones first. I so much want to see DA and the Shard have reasons to be visited. They're fantastic areas of the game both thematically and visually ... and almost nobody goes to them.

That said, I'm certainly not going to turn up my nose at a new zone either.

Sorry it was the pool in GV. Then the Cim map with the underwater area.

But you're essentially admitting to poo-pooing my thread instead? I'm a touch hurt, Sam.

My opinion has been pretty static on the matter: I like new zones and revamps equally. I want to know more about Dark Astoria. I also want to know more about Praetoria.

There's a handful of references of something going on in Dark Astoria in Tip missions. The upcoming conflict also seems to hinge on the very fabric of our dimensions. It would not be hard in the slightest to slip in a DA-centered arc or two.

Heck, while I know Bill will cringe at this, beating back a dark god sounds just like Incarnate work to me...

Hequat's a dark god and we fight her in one of Scirocco's arcs. It's not exactly difficult for non-Incarnates to fight a deity.

My thought was that the Sleeper could very easily be empowered by a fresh mass sacrifice or some other justification. But I see your point.

Personally, while I agree that "he has been empowered so he will kick your ***" is better than "you are a gnat so he will kick your ***," I'm getting a little tired of everyone and their grandma being empowered. We've fought gods before, and we've done it alone. Some more of that can't go amiss.

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I'm also of the opinion that I'd rather see City of Heroes zones revamped than see new zones added to that side of the game. On the flip side, I fully believe that City of Villains should get at least one new zone at some point. I'd slate it for 15-25, myself, as that's the primary level range where you only have single options: 15-20 in Cap, 20-25 in Sharkhead.

In general, I DO NOT WANT any more co-op zones. Co-op teaming was fun when it was a novelty, when I thought "Man, I bet it would be cool to team a Scrapper with a Brute!" That's old news now, and even besides, we can do the same via side switching. I'd much prefer faction-specific zones. Why? Well...

The biggest thing is that the story in co-op zones is always fat. Either you end up with nonsense like everyone constantly reminding you "and if you are a villain..." or even worse, you end up with villains doing hero content with flimsy justifications. "Well, they'll kill everyone, including you!" Wanna' bet? Maybe I want to join them and see the world burn. Or maybe I want to sink YOU and fight them my own way. "You can't." No, I clearly can't. I'm forced to be a hero, to the point where I have to wonder why we still pretend to have a villain game.

In large part, City of Villains was better off when the developers were at least pretending that it was an "expansionalone." At least then we occasionally saw VILLAIN content. These days, all we ever get is hero content that villains get to participate in. Oh, sure, there's the occasional story arc and SF here and there, and I do appreciate that, but any time it comes to larger game systems like Incarnates or new zones, it's always co-op and always hero content that villains are participating it "to fight a common enemy."

I'm sick and tired of common enemies. Heroes and villains have had so many common enemies of late that they may as well get married and get it out of their systems. You know they're gonna' do it, so let's just go out and do it. Enough of this "will they or won't they" nonsense.

Sometimes I wonder if we aren't misapplying the term "villain" when it comes to player "villains." If most of what they do in new content is fighting a common enemy with the heroes, maybe they're not the real villains after all. Why is it so hard to understand that a good villain is THE antagonist, not a casual observer that's just kind of mean?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

AAAAH. The end of the tunnel is on fire!!



If you are making a new zone please try and actually stick some worthwhile content other than a single TF into it.


And please, please, please don't be in or around Praetoria.


Overall I agree with Bill, I'd much prefer to see one of the cool but empty zones we already have become used and useful rather than just adding some new one, even if it's the same amount of work.

So no matter what you will find something to about which to complain, even if it's good?

I can't wait for the day I no longer want to play this game so I can really speak my mind on the forums.

Pretty much agree with this. At many points in history, comic book publishers have several things going on at once. Multi-title-mega-arcs produce customer fatigue after a time there. Some variety is nice.

Heck, that's what I like about the tip missions so much at moments--they feel like nice "one off" stories.

And if it weren't for the weird non-multi issue aspects of Faultline, like the introduction of Fusionette, she would never exist. But now, she's been called back in for cameos. In RWZ. And now even in Praetorian form in the Sutter TF. And it's all good in the hood by me.

So I says, yeah, loosen up a bit and throw in a smaller self contained one issue revamp here and there in the dead zones that expands a villain group or two. Faultline had no new enemy types (other than AV's). And with the tip missions you've got tons of supporting characters. What if someone like Overdrive (not actually my first choice, but just pulling a name out) featured prominently in two of three 8 mission arcs in DA for example?

Secret Mega Uber Incarnate Wars all the time makes for tired pandas.

I was just talking to a friend earlier today and what we agreed on is that a single issue with one heroside zone revamp and one new zone for villainside would be the best possible solution.

Personally the level range I hate in CoV is 25-30. Your options are a few scraps of Sharkhead along with Nerva, which easily has the weakest launch content of CoV. It's also about the point where you have to do 5 newspaper missions instead of 3 to get a Mayhem/new contact. Coincidence?

I'm still holding out hope for Crocodile Isle...

I think they should budget for an experiment. Instead of completely revamping Dark Astoria all in one issue, for example, start by just adding a contact with a story arc or two. Throw in a small number of tweaks to the zone to add unique locations for the missions. Nothing gets completely resolved in these arcs, obviously, but perhaps the second arc ends with you figuring out/stopping what the Tsoo are trying to do in DA. Then the next issue comes and they build right on top of that - two more arcs, a few more zone tweaks or a new zone event.

Start small and build into a complete package. That way they can fit it inbetween the big, big stuff and also affect change on a much more tactile level. Players have a problem with gimmick X or plot thread Y? Dump them next issue and move on, instead of having to untangle or rip out or just go on ignoring massive problems. This also allows for a more naturalistic expansion of these zones. Remember when the Arenas were under construction and we got to see it? Much cooler, frankly, than Vanguard just suddenly teleporting their entire base in from nowhere.

Dark Astoria is actually a unique case since what the zone actually looks like is largely meaningless. And should something take away the darkness and fog, the zone would still look cool and interesting. (Having flown around a bit on test when a patch borked the fog, the zone is built unlike any other in the game.)

This, pretty much.
WW originally mentioned revamps when she was first made lead dev, and I'm really sad to see that swiftly got buried under the same 'new shinies!' rhetoric that Posi kept coming up with everytime before =/

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I'm a bit confused by your reply to Dispari. I'm not sure if you know this, but someone is allowed to complain or state their feedback in the form of constructive criticism. I would say Dispari does a great job at the latter.

Just because someone is happy with a particular part of the a new zone, there might be another aspect they find lacking. For example, maybe the new zone is beautiful and has various contacts all with wonderful story arcs that allow players to solo or form small teams for incarnate content. Yay, right? Maybe this same zone has a zone event that is terrible and uses the same flawed participation system we currently use for the Trials.

Do you see my point?

I bet everyone is sitting on the edge of their seat...but are they waiting for your awesome and insult filled good bye post or...the fact you are leaving.

Then go play the normal red side content, and you can get treated as sub-human instead

The new zone will have new contacts and story arc content.

You should prepare yourself for the "worst" - perhaps

The power of the Well surging because of the approach of the Coming Storm can empower and stir up all kinds of things - Rularii and the Hamidon mightn't be the only things taking advantage of it

Hequat is a weakened deity when we fight her.

No one needs to be empowered. We have never fought a god at their full power before. We have never even fought an aspect of a god at their full power before, since we're explicitly told to put down Ruladak before he has his coffee and Lanaruu is nuts. The sleeper under DA is scary enough to seal off a whole zone, with people inside, he's already powerful.

And if you don't want to have to put together four teams to accomplish something, need I remind you that they are called the Banished Pantheon? Mot might be the big bad, but he's got a bunch of littler bads hanging out with him.

More or less? Yes.

I have opinions about the game, and I'm an avid beta tester. I don't think any single issue has gone by where I didn't have something I could complain about. I give constructive feedback though. I explain why I don't like it and offer suggestions on what I would do to improve, or how to approach it differently.

If I just gave a blanket statement of "I like everything!" I wouldn't be able to offer useful feedback. In order for writers, artists, and game-makers to produce good products, people need to challenge them from time to time. And I would be lying to myself; I don't like everything about each issue. Even if it's a "harmless" issue, there's always something to improve upon.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Not sure why you think I'd cringe.

I've made suggestions before for two layers of content to be put in DA - one that's zone appropriate investigating what's going on in the zone, and one where you come back later to finally end it (essentially, you're strong enough to patch the problem in the 20s, and experienced enough to put in the final fix - after the magic folks have researched enough to know what needs doing - in the 50s.)

My only issue with having it be "incarnate" content is one I think the dev team is going to have to address - I'd want it doable by non-incarnates, which for incarnates would make it rather a walk in the park. If it's geared toward Incarnates, it'd be a pain for most non-Incarnates (even without the "Oh, you're now -8" nonsense.) And possibly even for some incarnatelings.

I wouldn't want a conclusion to that locked behind having to be an incarnate.

Of course, a way around that would be an - "Epilogue," I suppose. Fix the immediate problem at lower levels, defeat and banish or rebind the "Sleeper" at 45-50, and in Incarnate levels, re-banish the Pantheon's gods who have started getting "too close to this reality" or some such. Should be doable solo, scaling up to a (single) full team.

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Wanting to play the game has no bearing on that. My sub is still up, logged in just last night (and planning to do so again today.) And I do that because I do, indeed, want to play the game, and enjoy doing so. Doesn't mean you can't speak up and say what's wrong or you don't like.

Even when people were referring to me (amusingly) as a "fanboy," it wouldn't take long for anyone paying attention to see I'm quite free with criticism. Why criticize and "really speak my mind?" Because I want the game to be better.

The world isn't black and white. I can criticize something I love. Sometimes (admittedly a lot more, recently) harshly.

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