As others have requested previously, plop in some contacts with story arcs into Dark Astoria, finish with a TF, give Villains access for their own contacts.
Call it a day.
No new zone required.
Quote:
Been withholding judgement long enough. Pretty much gave up on it with the repeated refrain from War Witch that they'd "rather give us something new than work on redoing old stuff" (paraphrased from multiple interviews.)|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I'd still rather have 20 zones we use than 900 zones and we only use 5 of them. Meaning, I'd rather they work on existing zones nobody goes to before adding more new ones. Still, I'll withhold judgement to see what it is.
|
So, yeah, they'll just add zone after zone until we have one person per ten zones, while DA and the like remain empty of anything to do.
Quote:
They've said they'rre revamp older zones when the story requires it - and right now, the story is focused on Praetoria.
|
Originally Posted by Jetpack
As others have requested previously, plop in some contacts with story arcs into Dark Astoria, finish with a TF, give Villains access for their own contacts.
Call it a day. No new zone required. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Agree. And probably another expletive-deleted co-op zone.
|
Originally Posted by Clouded
I'm excited for a new zone but I don't have any aspirations of the zone being anything other than another cityscape.
|
Quote:
No, they have too much of the story revolving around praetorians leaving at level 20. The praetorians then need to spend enough time on primal earth to establish themselves there, allowing ALL characters to be involved in later arcs fighting Praetoria.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
It's going to be a level 20-30 Praetorian zone because the devs are in love with Praetoria and seem to feel that level 20-30 desperately needs more content for people to do once, outlevel, and then go on to run the RWZ and Tina and Maria again to get to 50.
|
This zone will be level 35-50+. It will be based in Praetoria... but outside the city.... Most likely in the ruined lands that lie outside the sonic barrier.
Quote:
If the new zone is cool I won't complain much. But I wish they'd get back to some of the old zones that have tons of potential, like the Shadow Shard. (Make it co-op, make the travel not suck so much -- redesign it and make it smaller if you have to -- and finish that cool story).
|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Been withholding judgement long enough. Pretty much gave up on it with the repeated refrain from War Witch that they'd "rather give us something new than work on redoing old stuff" (paraphrased from multiple interviews.)
So, yeah, they'll just add zone after zone until we have one person per ten zones, while DA and the like remain empty of anything to do. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
No. The devs have said before that they need an in-story reason for revamping the zones (and removing the old content, no matter how flawed, from play). I have a feeling that we're going to reach a point with the coming storm and the shadow shard invasion and extradimensional incursions where the very foundation of the dimensions and the three cities we know is going to be shaken... and we'll see several zones revamp at once as a reflection of this (the old zones will be available via Ouroboros). This'll likely be another paid expansion... and it may even take the form of a CoH 2.0... but it will come.
|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Been withholding judgement long enough. Pretty much gave up on it with the repeated refrain from War Witch that they'd "rather give us something new than work on redoing old stuff" (paraphrased from multiple interviews.)
So, yeah, they'll just add zone after zone until we have one person per ten zones, while DA and the like remain empty of anything to do. |
Quote:
They just said on the live UStream chat that that would be a huge amount of work.
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
the Shadow Shard. (Make it co-op, make the travel not suck so much -- redesign it and make it smaller if you have to -- and finish that cool story).
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet.
Quote:
Making a new zone is also a huge amount of work. I'm just saying I'd rather they apply it to existing zones than always making new ones and adding more zone clutter.
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They just said on the live UStream chat that that would be a huge amount of work.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Gonna call it now, based on Sexy Jay's holiday ramblings:
New historic mini-zone (like Cimemora) set sometime between the early Medieval and late French Rococo periods.
If it's earlier, it will likely involve some twists on Arthurian legends and the Well of the Furies.
If it's the latter, perhaps we'll see some Punic wars/early Nemesis plots that somehow connect Nem and the Well. Also would expect to see some pre-purposing of elements in the all-but-announced steampunk pack in this environ.
But either way, this is where I expect the courtly clues of Sexy Jay to come in. And frankly, even though I too would like a moon zone, I think I might really welcome either of the above. Especially if they build upon the role of the midnighter club.
EDIT: Looks like the steampunk pack is now announced. And it looks Aaaaaaamazing. Very pleased!
If it's medieval, we'll need those pointy princess hats as costume parts, and a curtsey emote 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
How about "Having a damn story in there in the first place?" Sounds more like excuses to me, quite honestly. Especially when we're looking at zones like DA which HAVE no "old content to remove from play." And haven't since they were created. |
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
No. The devs have said before that they need an in-story reason for revamping the zones (and removing the old content, no matter how flawed, from play). I have a feeling that we're going to reach a point with the coming storm and the shadow shard invasion and extradimensional incursions where the very foundation of the dimensions and the three cities we know is going to be shaken... and we'll see several zones revamp at once as a reflection of this (the old zones will be available via Ouroboros). This'll likely be another paid expansion... and it may even take the form of a CoH 2.0... but it will come.
|
Hell, if they just "need a story reason," why wasn't Boomtown touched when they brought back the 5th? Big story reason there - that's where the Freedom Phalanx's headquarters was, with Reichsman on ice.
I highly doubt we'll see "a revamp of several zones at once." Rather, I don't think I want to see it, having seen the crap that gets shoveled out when they feel rushed. (see VEAT "arcs.")
Plus, you have Melissa's whole "We just want to give you new!" line she's given over and over. As I've said before, I STRONGLY suspect she and a good chunk of the rest of the team got entirely the WRONG idea when they redid Faultline.
We have, in general, far too many zones at this point. And more TO the point, far too many with no reason other than the occasional hunt to go there.
Quote:
Noble Savage did make some remark about getting us things that we didn't even know that we wanted... And you know, if those pointy hats had "hat-capes," I think I just might want one.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If it's medieval, we'll need those pointy princess hats as costume parts, and a curtsey emote
|
IRL.
>.>
<.<
what?
Does anyone remember the story reason for the upgrade of Faultline and how it tied into the overall arching story at that time?
I dont understand why it has to be one or the other when it comes to revamping older zones while working on the on-going story/adding new zones what have you. Why not work on new content that moves the Praetoria story forward but at the same time throw in a few contacts, missions, TF what have you into Dark Astoria for example, at the same time that focus on the story of that zone? Why does it have to tie in with the overall story? When I run story arcs in Independence Port, they dont tie in with Arachnos, Orobourus, Praetoria etc.
Crotoa for example is a zone with its own unique story that doesnt tie into anything else going on in Paragon City story wise. Its its own self-contained story. I would like to see that method applied to revamping older zones. Give them some unique flavour that isnt Praetoria/Incarnate driven.
As for the amount of work involved revamping older zones while adding new ones - youre telling me its more work to add contacts and such to an already existing, created zone then it is to create one entirely from scratch? I find that odd.
Quote:
I probably don't feel as strongly as you do about it. But my preference is still for revamps. I'd like to point out:|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
How about "Having a damn story in there in the first place?" Sounds more like excuses to me, quite honestly. Especially when we're looking at zones like DA which HAVE no "old content to remove from play." And haven't since they were created.
Hell, if they just "need a story reason," why wasn't Boomtown touched when they brought back the 5th? Big story reason there - that's where the Freedom Phalanx's headquarters was, with Reichsman on ice. I highly doubt we'll see "a revamp of several zones at once." Rather, I don't think I want to see it, having seen the crap that gets shoveled out when they feel rushed. (see VEAT "arcs.") Plus, you have Melissa's whole "We just want to give you new!" line she's given over and over. As I've said before, I STRONGLY suspect she and a good chunk of the rest of the team got entirely the WRONG idea when they redid Faultline. We have, in general, far too many zones at this point. And more TO the point, far too many with no reason other than the occasional hunt to go there. |
Revamps can succeed very well. RWZ is probably the most popular zone in the game now.
New zones can also epic fail. Like the Shadow Shard.
Saying revamps take a lot of time is kind of irrelevant, as the alternative is a new zone, which also takes a lot of time. If I had to pick between the two, I'd go for revamps. We have tons of zones nobody goes to and no reason for them to exist. Or even zones that barely exist for small reasons.
Also, saying revamps are only going to happen when "the story calls for it" is also kind of irrelevant. As the devs are writing the story anyway... the story calls for it when they feel like it does. At any given moment the story can either call for a new enemy group, or revisiting an old one. The story doesn't call for it, the devs call for the story. If they wanted to sit down and work on Croatoa again, they could. They aren't going to sit around the office one day when suddenly the anthropomorphic story goes "Psst, work on Croatoa. It's time."
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
I think very specifically they were referencing that making the Shadow Shard co-op was a lot of work. They'd originally thought it would be no problem but once they started it turned out it would have taken much more time then they'd alloted to do it.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Making a new zone is also a huge amount of work. I'm just saying I'd rather they apply it to existing zones than always making new ones and adding more zone clutter.
|
Assuming I heard that part of the chat correctly.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
I think they should introduce actual story arcs to the Shadow Shard and then make a completely new Shadow Shard zone for villains with its own arcs.
Also, yeah... revamp Dark Astoria, Perez, etc.
Quote:
If they were the size of the mini HVAS, that would be awesome. Like the newbie gardens in other MMORPGs!
|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Level 1-5.
Fighting War Walkers. |
Quote:
Exactly. |
Originally Posted by Safeguard
Does anyone remember the story reason for the upgrade of Faultline and how it tied into the overall arching story at that time?
I dont understand why it has to be one or the other when it comes to revamping older zones while working on the on-going story/adding new zones what have you. Why not work on new content that moves the Praetoria story forward but at the same time throw in a few contacts, missions, TF what have you into Dark Astoria for example, at the same time that focus on the story of that zone? Why does it have to tie in with the overall story? When I run story arcs in Independence Port, they dont tie in with Arachnos, Orobourus, Praetoria etc. Crotoa for example is a zone with its own unique story that doesnt tie into anything else going on in Paragon City story wise. Its its own self-contained story. I would like to see that method applied to revamping older zones. Give them some unique flavour that isnt Praetoria/Incarnate driven. As for the amount of work involved revamping older zones while adding new ones - youre telling me its more work to add contacts and such to an already existing, created zone then it is to create one entirely from scratch? I find that odd. |
This is what I mean by "Learned the wrong lessons from Faultline," as they (especially melissa) LOVE pointing at how much work it would take.
Now, yes, the Shard would take a lot of work. But the shard is not "A" zone, the shard is FOUR of the larger zones. So pointing at that and saying "It would take too much work to revamp old zones" is like pointing at a porsche and saying "It'll take too much time to move five people and luggage across the country" while ignoring the SUV, van, or bus next to it.
Faultline took a lot of work. They opened up an area that (a) was inaccessible and (b) had nothing (behind the dam,) and altered the geometry of the zone. They added a bunch of new things to the zone (those elevators sure as hell weren't there before, they added more scaffolding, etc.) Pointing at that as an example of "taking too much work, so we'd rather give you new" is BS, as well - but that's what I'm fairly sure they have in mind.
Give me a three issue cycle of work. Much like Intel's "tick-tock" when it comes to their chips.
1. Add contacts and storyline to empty zone.
2. Add new zone if needed.
3. Revamp old (and still in use - such as Atlas) zone's content.
Keep the ENTIRE game fresh. Don't just keep piling crap on top.
Quote:
This isn't just that chat. They've been spewing out that answer for some time now.
|
Originally Posted by Oliin
I think very specifically they were referencing that making the Shadow Shard co-op was a lot of work. They'd originally thought it would be no problem but once they started it turned out it would have taken much more time then they'd alloted to do it.
Assuming I heard that part of the chat correctly. |
Quote:
Faultline - along with the RWZ - was revamped when the dev team were down to just 15 people - they simply didn't have the resources to plan out and develop the kind of massive multi-Issue arc like we're now getting with Praetoria and the Incarnates, so they seem to have just looked for one-off revamps, rather than making anything totally new, or connected to any larger story.
|
Originally Posted by Safeguard
Does anyone remember the story reason for the upgrade of Faultline and how it tied into the overall arching story at that time?
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
they've been dropping a few hints that Rularru will feature in some way in the Incarnate content, and that he's either an Incarnate himself, or linked ot the Well in some way - so I'm pretty sure we'll be getting some kind of Shadow Shard stuff - although it could just be Trtial related rather than any major zone revamp.
|
Originally Posted by Scythus
I think they should introduce actual story arcs to the Shadow Shard and then make a completely new Shadow Shard zone for villains with its own arcs.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."