City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

New zone?!

Adeon Hawkwood

By Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-28 11:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
And if you don't want to have to put together four teams to accomplish something, need I remind you that they are called the Banished Pantheon? Mot might be the big bad, but he's got a bunch of littler bads hanging out with him.
Yet that somehow didn't stop me from beating up Lord Recluse in the future or Hequat in a different dimension. The game has proven that it is capable of supporting storylines where a single character takes on a god alone. I want more of this. Explaining around it does nothing to change that fact.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
I'm down with a new zone.

However, I would prefer some revamps. This idea that they can't revamp a new zone because of the Praetoria story focus is silly as hell. Seeing how this is a war, only someone with very limited imagination could say that you couldn't tie the Praetorian war into having to revmap a zone or two. Luckily the devs are not as limited as some posters in this thread/forum.

Hint for the slow: In a war areas of cities and countries are often destroyed.
I'll reference my first post in this thread, to avoid repeating myself.

I still agree that, considering the number of zones that we currently have: revamps > new zones. I don't even think they necessarily have to be destroyed. After all, this is an inter-dimensional war. There's no "front" where all the destruction would happen (a la Western Russia during WWII). But instead, what if existing factions in Paragon City took a look around and said, "Hey, have you noticed that fewer of the big heroes are around lately? I hear they are fighting some war with an alternate Earth in another dimension. Now is the opportune moment to...!!!"

The CoH universe should not function in a vacuum. I refuse to believe that virtually every other enemy faction on either side of the red and blue line are just going to watch the Praetorian/Primal War from the side lines. From their point of view, this would obviously be the perfect time to complete any of the examples I named in the aforementioned post, among others. If revamps will only occur "when the story requires it," I can't think of a more blatantly obvious opportunity!

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Wanting to play the game has no bearing on that. My sub is still up, logged in just last night (and planning to do so again today.) And I do that because I do, indeed, want to play the game, and enjoy doing so. Doesn't mean you can't speak up and say what's wrong or you don't like.

Even when people were referring to me (amusingly) as a "fanboy," it wouldn't take long for anyone paying attention to see I'm quite free with criticism. Why criticize and "really speak my mind?" Because I want the game to be better.

The world isn't black and white. I can criticize something I love. Sometimes (admittedly a lot more, recently) harshly.
This.

Put it this way: If I (and probably others) get to the point where we no longer care to offer criticism or what the devs are doing, that's when you can expect (some of) us to simply hit the quit button. No goodbye posts, no selling stuff, simply quit.

The fact that we are still critical and offer suggestions (sometimes admittedly harshly) or review/mention what didn't go right or was abandoned (pvp, bases, AE) means we still care.


As others have said, I love this game and what the devs stated in that last chat that is coming in the future. Doesn't mean I won't speak my mind when something isn't working right or has an OBVIOUS bug (the reward system for the trials currently for instance).

If people don't like that the forums have a function they can use to stop seeing my (and any others) posts. Nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Put it this way: If I (and probably others) get to the point where we no longer care to offer criticism or what the devs are doing, that's when you can expect (some of) us to simply hit the quit button. No goodbye posts, no selling stuff, simply quit.
Pretty much this. When I stop criticising things, it'll be because I've left. And if I leave, it won't be in a big huff or with long goodbyes. It will be because I took a break to play something else and never found a reason to come back.

You can't have an MMO that people never criticise, because that just means people simply don't care. And the last thing you want to happen to your MMO is for your players to not care about it enough to elicit an emotional response.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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Personally, I loved the Faultline revamp and wish they would do more with the neglected zones. I would really love to see something done with DA. My duo partner was doing some hunting there one morning a while back and, because of some technical glitch, the fog was turned off. She said she just wandered around marveling at how great a lot of the zone looked once you could actually see it. So what I would like to see is either an event that would temporarily turn off the fog for everyone in the zone, or an arc that would make the fog clear just for your team. I bet that a lot of longtime players would love to see what's under all that gloom.

"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."

 

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Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
Dark Astoria is actually a unique case since what the zone actually looks like is largely meaningless. And should something take away the darkness and fog, the zone would still look cool and interesting. (Having flown around a bit on test when a patch borked the fog, the zone is built unlike any other in the game.)
Interesting you should mention this because I think that is another one of those bugs that could actually be turned into a cool game mechanic.

For example, a player runs through the story arc of Dark Astoria and successfully completes the final mission - what happens? The fog and gloom is removed from Dark Astoria and the sun shines once again. I think it would be a great way for a player to feel heroic and like they actually changed something in game. Of course, this all resets back to the fog so others can complete it as well but I think the effect would still be there. Much like Recluses' Victory and how the zone changes. I think they missed the boat with not implementing more of that mechanic throughout the game.

Remidi beat me to the punch

 

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Originally Posted by Safeguard View Post
Interesting you should mention this because I think that is another one of those bugs that could actually be turned into a cool game mechanic.

For example, a player runs through the story arc of Dark Astoria and successfully completes the final mission - what happens? The fog and gloom is removed from Dark Astoria and the sun shines once again. I think it would be a great way for a player to feel heroic and like they actually changed something in game. Of course, this all resets back to the fog so others can complete it as well but I think the effect would still be there. Much like Recluses' Victory and how the zone changes. I think they missed the boat with not implementing more of that mechanic throughout the game.

Remidi beat me to the punch
Or, if the current thrust of Paragon Studios is 'co-op for everything' have missions for the villains to do that make the zone worse i.e. bring the fog back, spawn GMs etc.

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Originally Posted by Safeguard View Post
For example, a player runs through the story arc of Dark Astoria and successfully completes the final mission - what happens? The fog and gloom is removed from Dark Astoria and the sun shines once again. I think it would be a great way for a player to feel heroic and like they actually changed something in game. Of course, this all resets back to the fog so others can complete it as well but I think the effect would still be there. Much like Recluses' Victory and how the zone changes. I think they missed the boat with not implementing more of that mechanic throughout the game.
This discussion came up in another topic at one point, and I sorta liked this idea. I wonder if it's possible, actually, to use Going Rogue's "disappearing contact" tech on the fog there. That'd be an awesome way to create a cool climax while still keeping the story intact for characters who come into it fresh.

 

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Villains want more zones.
Heroes want better zones.
Golden Girl wants co-op zones, but she can stuff it up her jumper.

If the developers can't think of story reasons to revamp hero zones, I will do it for them. For one dollar.

It's worth noting that by the time of this announcement, the plans for the new zone are almost certainly already set. It will nearly surely be in the next issue exactly as it has been planned since long before it was announced, and nothing we say here is at all likely to change whatever it is.

The fact that the developers are "thinking about" non-trial Incarnate advancement means that these plans are not set in stone and that commenting on them at this time actually has a non-zero chance of influencing their final shape. It also means there will almost certainly not be any non-trial Incarnate advancement in the next issue, and probably not in the issue after that either. Unless they semi-gluteate it, of course, which will bring issues of its own.

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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan View Post
Villains want more zones.
Heroes want better zones.
Golden Girl wants co-op zones, but she can stuff it up her jumper.

If the developers can't think of story reasons to revamp hero zones, I will do it for them. For one dollar.

It's worth noting that by the time of this announcement, the plans for the new zone are almost certainly already set. It will nearly surely be in the next issue exactly as it has been planned since long before it was announced, and nothing we say here is at all likely to change whatever it is.

The fact that the developers are "thinking about" non-trial Incarnate advancement means that these plans are not set in stone and that commenting on them at this time actually has a non-zero chance of influencing their final shape. It also means there will almost certainly not be any non-trial Incarnate advancement in the next issue, and probably not in the issue after that either. Unless they semi-gluteate it, of course, which will bring issues of its own.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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Originally Posted by Daemodand View Post
Solo friendly good, Yet Another Co-op Zone bad. Hopefully we'll start seeing competitive* zones at some point instead as co-op is completely out of hand.

*"Competitive" does not necessarily mean PvP.
But "competitive" in an MMO is code for "suxxors." Who doesn't love waiting around in other games for glowies to respawn, only to have them snaked by other players? Boy-howdy, I sure do!

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Originally Posted by Remidi View Post
Personally, I loved the Faultline revamp and wish they would do more with the neglected zones. I would really love to see something done with DA. My duo partner was doing some hunting there one morning a while back and, because of some technical glitch, the fog was turned off. She said she just wandered around marveling at how great a lot of the zone looked once you could actually see it. So what I would like to see is either an event that would temporarily turn off the fog for everyone in the zone, or an arc that would make the fog clear just for your team. I bet that a lot of longtime players would love to see what's under all that gloom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Safeguard View Post
Interesting you should mention this because I think that is another one of those bugs that could actually be turned into a cool game mechanic.

For example, a player runs through the story arc of Dark Astoria and successfully completes the final mission - what happens? The fog and gloom is removed from Dark Astoria and the sun shines once again. I think it would be a great way for a player to feel heroic and like they actually changed something in game. Of course, this all resets back to the fog so others can complete it as well but I think the effect would still be there. Much like Recluses' Victory and how the zone changes. I think they missed the boat with not implementing more of that mechanic throughout the game.
...and just from a story perspective to explain game mechanics the way War Witch seems to love like a fluffy bunny toy, just make the "sunshiny Dark Astoria" a temporary victory.

"Well hero, I don't know how long it will last, but for right now the fog is gone and the gloom has cleared. Even if Lughebu's followers regain their numbers, at least for the people here now, you given them back the sun."

Player leaves DA, reset. Problem solved, no new artwork needed, just a new series of missions. Maybe with a few unique maps the way Faultline got.

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Pretty much this. When I stop criticising things, it'll be because I've left.
I understand this and the previous sentiments and agree to a significant extent, but had a chuckle when I imagined this particular statement within the context of a romantic relationship.

 

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Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan View Post
I understand this and the previous sentiments and agree to a significant extent, but had a chuckle when I imagined this particular statement within the context of a romantic relationship.
The difference being that when you criticize the game and you criticize your wife, the game still lets you play with it.

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
...and just from a story perspective to explain game mechanics the way War Witch seems to love like a fluffy bunny toy, just make the "sunshiny Dark Astoria" a temporary victory.

"Well hero, I don't know how long it will last, but for right now the fog is gone and the gloom has cleared. Even if Lughebu's followers regain their numbers, at least for the people here now, you given them back the sun."

Player leaves DA, reset. Problem solved, no new artwork needed, just a new series of missions. Maybe with a few unique maps the way Faultline got.

That's exactly the sort of thing that I was thinking about. I don't think taking away the 'dark' in Dark Astoria permanently would be a good idea, but a temporary victory that would let us sightsee would be great.

"Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to let you in."

 

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Not sure why you think I'd cringe.
I was under the impression you had a strong dislike for Incarnate content. But perhaps I've misinterpreted something or mixed you up with Sam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Safeguard View Post
Interesting you should mention this because I think that is another one of those bugs that could actually be turned into a cool game mechanic.

For example, a player runs through the story arc of Dark Astoria and successfully completes the final mission - what happens? The fog and gloom is removed from Dark Astoria and the sun shines once again. I think it would be a great way for a player to feel heroic and like they actually changed something in game. Of course, this all resets back to the fog so others can complete it as well but I think the effect would still be there. Much like Recluses' Victory and how the zone changes. I think they missed the boat with not implementing more of that mechanic throughout the game.

Remidi beat me to the punch
Precisely. My point was that making Dark Astoria look new and interesting simply requires them to turn off the fog (and add a few bits and bobs), compared to have to entirely rebuild whole sections of Faultline or hypothetically Boomtown.

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Don't forget that the devs also said that the new zone will move some storylines towards a conclusion - so it must be going to be tied into some of the larger storylines we already have in the game, rather than just being an almost self-contained zone like Faultline.

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Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
I was under the impression you had a strong dislike for Incarnate content. But perhaps I've misinterpreted something or mixed you up with Sam.
I have issues with many things as the Incarnate system stands (and looks, near-term, like where it's going.) With appropriate content being added and such, no.

Incarnates themselves, I think the idea works out better this way (as a system) than it was as Incarnates were initially mentioned years ago, as an EAT. It does (or should) "give 50s something to do" and create an alternative leveling system so they don't have to deal with raising the level cap and all that would break with it.

I dislike the bevy of new currencies and the punitive rate of earning and conversion from shards. I don't mind that there are two ways to unlock the system (iXP in raids and the Mender if you don't want to do that,) and yes, a solo/small team way would be a bit slower - I have no argument with that. I do have issues with the *vastness* of the disparity in speed (and, again, cost.) I don't really hold out a lot of hope that the vaguely alluded to "story arcs" will make a huge difference on that, when/if ever they see the light of day.

I am, however, keeping in mind that incarnate *anything* is new and the system is unfinished. I have a few misgivings and things I'm keeping an eye on - but I don't dislike the system as a whole.

 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
But "competitive" in an MMO is code for "suxxors." Who doesn't love waiting around in other games for glowies to respawn, only to have them snaked by other players? Boy-howdy, I sure do!
So the PvP zone missions that provide zone-wide buffs and debuffs are code for "suxxors?"

Even the Safeguard/Mayhem setup...that is code for "suxxors?"

The disappearing contact tech has already been mentioned. Triggering zone events has been mentioned. All of these things could be used to make a zone feel more competitive than it actually is, if done well.

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An anniversary seems like a wonderful time to reflect on the past. If they didn't want their parade rained on, they shouldn't have provided folks the water.
This is totally the viewpoint to follow at a wedding anniversary, birthday, or holiday. Emotional milestones are absolutely the best time to remind people of all the negative stuff they already know and probably regret, that way they can be extra bitter going forward. And that is sure to help their productivity.

The flavor of this community just isn't what it used to be...

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Originally Posted by Serpine View Post
This is totally the viewpoint to follow at a wedding anniversary, birthday, or holiday. Emotional milestones....
I'm sorry... "Emotional milestone" for "Hey, a game's been in existance for so long?" Unless you're involved in its development, I don't see it. I CERTAINLY don't put it up there with actual life events like a wedding or birthday.

If you do, perhaps some perspective is needed.

 

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Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
And it never was.
I'm not saying things were ever pure joy and kittens over here, but either this forum has gotten more negative over the years or several other MMO forums have gotten nicer. Entropy would tend to favor the former.

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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I'm sorry... "Emotional milestone" for "Hey, a game's been in existance for so long?" Unless you're involved in its development, I don't see it. I CERTAINLY don't put it up there with actual life events like a wedding or birthday.
If you do, perhaps some perspective is needed.
Its not an emotional milestone for *me* Bill, I'm trying to imagine how the developers are looking at things. I care about this event personally less then the birthdays of most of my friends or coworkers (which is to say, hardly at all). But if I'm aware of these events in their lives, I usually avoid telling them around those times about how they have disappointed me over the last year: Pointing out flaws when people are having their "special moments" is usually more likely to impair their future performance then improve it. Its purely a question of when best to employ the carrot vs the stick.

And the day my post count on any game forum (any non-professional forum really) goes past 1k is the day I'll start concerning myself with loosing perspective.

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Originally Posted by Serpine View Post
I'm not saying things were ever pure joy and kittens over here, but either this forum has gotten more negative over the years or several other MMO forums have gotten nicer. Entropy would tend to favor the former.
That's because a lot of people got really sick of the whiners, doomsayers, and negative nancies and left to just play the game (I'm even convinced that 80% of the people whining don't actually play the game anymore and pay $15/month to gripe on a public forum). I'm on the verge of being one of those people. Seriously, anyone who posts something snarky/sarcastic/negative in an announcement containing about ten brand new shinies for the game will probably complain about getting $100,000 because it wasn't a check.

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Originally Posted by Serpine View Post
This is totally the viewpoint to follow at a wedding anniversary, birthday, or holiday. Emotional milestones are absolutely the best time to remind people of all the negative stuff they already know and probably regret, that way they can be extra bitter going forward. And that is sure to help their productivity.
I'd argue that there's any "emotion" involved here at all. I'd also argue that there's much "regret", which is also part of the reason it gets brought up. From a business perspective, an anniversary seems like a very effective time to discuss both positive and negative things. It's more than just a time to pat oneself on the back, it's a time to look on what needs to be improved for the future.