It's the journey, not the destination: Really?

It is about the journey, not the destination, but for me that has nothing to do with levels. Levels are merely part of constructing an avatar to take the journey. I could start with a level 50 and still potentially be interested in making the journey of gameplay. Indeed, levels are more often an obstacle that hinders my enjoyment of the journey than anything else.

Journey.

I'm kinda OCD about finishing something I really enjoy. I've always seen level 50 as being semi-retirement as I don't enjoy grinding influence. With no forward progress to be made. I suddenly lose interest in them. Combined with a fatal case of altism and a lack of interest in Trials or TF's means I very rarely even log in a 50. They stand as my 'personal superman' that my newer heroes/Villains can aspire to be like.

In truth, I have numerous level 49 toons. That have been long ago abandoned out of fear of not wanting the fun to end. It's a bit of an oddity with me. If I'm really enjoying something I'll put off finishing it for so long cause I don't want it to be over, then months later I realize that by doing that I've by default prevented myself from enjoying them at all.

It's even worse with console games. I've gotten to Sepiroth no less than 10 times over the various years but have yet to actually beat the game. Even with Knights and all, simply because I don't want it to be over. Then I realize it's over simply because I'm avoiding it, only to go back and be rusty enough to want to start over and then have the same synapse misfire and the cycle repeats.


What was I talking about? >_<

Oh yeah, the journey ftw.

For me it depends on the nature of the journey and what's waiting for me at the destination (which in an MMO tends to be a new journey). Some journeys are inherently fun and enjoyable and become the reason I'm playing. Others are a tedious chore that I'm only enduring because the destination is just that appealing. And of course, sometimes the journey is a tedious chore *and* the destination isn't that appealing, so I bypass completely if possible.

Examples of what I mean:

So long as I run it all teamed, I enjoy the combat and pace of levelling in this game. Even the pre-20 levels. I like going into a mission and bashing heads, the variation of which character/build I'm using, who I've ended up teamed with this time, and so on. There's relatively frequent sub-destinations along the way (i.e. new powers and slots) that mean I'm not usually thinking about the ultimate destination of reaching 50. That there's all the IO'ing out (which you can do earlier, but I tend to leave until 47+) and now incarnate stuff waiting at 50 is great, and I thoroughly enjoy that too once I get a character there, but I'd be enjoying the 1-49.99 game even if the 50 stuff wasn't there (as evidenced by the fact I did enjoy it before IOs etc were added). If you gave me a button to insta-level to 50 I'd not use it.

I'm actually at the point now where I have enough characters at 50, and such a wide stable of alts, that I can happily log a non-50 char in for a few missions with almost no thought of even getting the next power, much less getting to 50. And to be honest, there wasn't ever a time that I wanted to get to 50 just for the sake of getting to 50 - it was never a destination in its own right, only in terms of what there was to do once I got there.

But sometimes the journey sucks. Unlocking Viridian's arc for example. The destination is cool, it's a fun arc and I enjoyed it once I unlocked it. But the journey to get there was just a tedious grind and I hated it. Yet I endured it to play the arc. To be honest, I'm undecided as to whether it was worth it - I've not unlocked it again on any new chars I've gotten into range so far. If I could skip the "journey" on that one, I'd unlock and run it on a lot more of my characters.

And then there's things like the old zookeeper badge, or the old healing one, where the journey was pretty much the opposite of enjoyable for me, *and* I didn't much care about the destination. So I never even tried to get them, even now that the requirements are more reasonable.


Now as to the wording of the question, "that the game should be about the journey" the way I interpret that, I strongly believe so. I hate when game designers decide we need to slog through tedium to finally get to the fun part - where the destination may be awesome, but only once you've undergone a test of endurance/tolerance to get there. If the journey isn't enjoyable then I'll probably not try to reach the destination (and if I do, even if the destination turns out to have been worth it, I'll still resent whoever designed it that way).

Its the journey for me... but sometimes I get caught up in finding out "what I'm missing" and feel obligated to force myself to do things that don't work well for me-- large group events that make the weaker PC struggle, Task Forces where I risk having to leave midway because of being on-call... archvillain fights that just seem the antithesis of my interests. I forget about the journey at those moments and generally find the game less fun because of it.

That's what happened when I19 was announced... and I had so many of my characters stabled in their 40's (what was the sense of getting to 50 when the high-level game mechanics become less interesting to me?). I felt like I HAD to have characters ready to experience the new 50's journey, so I focused my time on getting those characters to 50 to be ready. The destination became the sole focus.

Then, I19 came out and so many of my level 50's had more to do. It felt more frustrating than fun-- I thought they'd already reached their destination, now there's more to do. Granted, I didn't bother with the highest tiers-- just enough to get a level shift then shelve them again. I still haven't even done THAT on most of my 50's, and I only have a little over a half dozen.

Then, I20 preview came and I saw what was to come, and in a good way, it kinda threw me out of the "destination" funk again. I stopped playing my 50's and stopped caring about getting them ready for Incarnate stuff at all. I'm on my long-neglected lowbies again and rediscovering the joy of just playing without thinking of where things eventually go. Some will likely be stabled in their 30's, some in their 40's, and occasionally, I'll break out a 50 just to see what's going on in the incarnate world, but I don't feel compelled to keep up with the latest and greatest to remain at the ever-shifting destination anymore.

All journey, up until you hit the brick wall of soul sucking loot grind two map bull that is our "wonderful" end game content, something coh didn't need to add, is one more step to making it a generic clone of every other mmo including you know what, and really has me considering canceling my account because I20 holds zero interest for me. If this is the direction the devs want to go then stop the train cause I'm getting off. Well I would be provided NCsoft's stupid new master account security and it's broken captcha's didn't lock me out....

And Sam as usual sums up how I feel minus the rants and borderline cussing. Specifically the fact we're hitting the phase where we aren't "Forced" to grind geko, but we are forced to deal with the fact that's where the focus is, deal with inf costs on top of grinds, deal with the fact even if we ignored I20 totally WW inflation is BROKEN, and a host of other issues that can't be solved by if you don't like it then don't play it. That and battle maiden as the best example of never want to do this again ever created.

I can play on sure, but good luck finding an LGTF that doesn't speed, or players who don't stealth when possible, i'm in a rare minority probably where I like the synapse TF of all things, it forces a team to be a team, not watch the tank run off to get the glowy or stealth TP to the boss while my blaster behind waits at the door.

I20 is taking every problem about the journey vs destination and making it worse due to the increased grind and loot needs. It's creaing a new batch of players less interested in experiencing content over exploiting it for max rewards. It's creating an incentive to farm shards and influence over trying to reduce it (speed katies anyone?) And locking that grind into only a couple locations on top of using one system to unlock a slot then a whole entire new system on top of now worthless shards? All the while being at the mercy of an RNG for the extra rewards is to be perfectly blunt the single dumbest decision I've seen come from the devs in years of playing. Not to mention further destroying the uniqueness that was coh until they decided to add pvp, add loot, add the grind for loot, and now add an endgame...Dear god is there one outside the box idea anywhere?

For the record I bought coh back in beta because it had none of those things, i though it might, just might, dare to be different then the other mmo's out there, oh how wrong I've been proved.... and am immensely disappointed in this fact.

Were I in charge right now? I'd be firing positron, giving his man hours and staff to warwitch, and get us real honest to god 1-50 content, revamped TF's and do something about boomtown over this joke that coh wants to call an endgame.

All it's doing is running me off rather then keeping me interested.

When I 1st heard about Matt stepping down as lead in order to work on the secret system it reminded me of the whole
Apple2 vs Macintosh debacle that almost brought down the house around Job's and ended up costing him his company (albeit not for long)

Though I doubt there is much infighting amongst the Dev's as to which is better. It still divides a fair chunk of resources on to something that not everyone is involved with.

Just my quick reply with quick thoughts on this subject...

I think it is healthier for the community of a game to rally around the "it's the journey, not the destination". I believe it's a good thing, because it keeps the game alive with alt-ing, with respect towards the existing content and resists against burn out of the nothing-to-do variety.

However, of course it is not a universal truth of 100% accuracy.


I, personally, have always been more about playing a game that afford utter freedom. mmorpgs fill the role for me so well.
I love it when I reach the point where I feel like I have nothing that I need to do for a character.
However, I am weird... It's not that I enjoy a finished PvP or PvE build...
It's just that I enjoy hopping on and having the powers that I think this concept should have and just doing whatever I feel like at that time.
I basically just enjoy using the video game to play a little make believe...
And once I have all the powers I wanted (and can have), my action figure and playset are complete and all that is left to do is play.

So, I'm not really a journey kind of guy... Except that my journey doesn't stop with a finished character... My journey never stops.

I like being the completed character and can understand wanting to zip through content.
I also have completely enjoyed slowly progressing through the journey.
So, I can understand both camps.
I think I have the mindset of the journey group, but truly have a stronger love for the get me to where I wanted camp.

Mix it up, swirl it around and have fun seems to be my approach.

Depends on what destination is. For example, I find just hitting fifty to be far too easy, so I redefined my destination to be "hit Lv50 while clearing every single available mission along the way". I play with my XP off 95% of the time, and enjoy it. I don't feel overly pressured to gain levels because I enjoy playing at any level. Sometimes the game does feel like a grind, but I understand it's because I'm shackled by choices I made and choose to adhere to.

An open letter to NCsoft

I think its the journey. I readily admit I am thrilled that the journey now includes things my 50 levels can do besides pay the rent on the SG base and hand out cash to my lower levels so they can have the best enhancements available. I'm sure many look at the new incarnate system as a grind.. doing TF after TF to get shards and components and once 20 hits gathering or creating threads to build new powers but to me .. [first] I love task forces anyway so doing a bunch of them is not a grind .. its teaming with 7 other people and doing outstanding things I'd never dream of doing solo. Each team is a little different in make up and while many use the same strategies some do have different tactics so its fun just comparing to see which feels like the best.

I have leveled different characters t0 50 and now have at least one of every AT except Peacebringers and Widows (and the Widow is closing in at 45). My badger has crossed from Villain to Rogue to Hero to Vigilante and back to Villain.. and is currently on her second trip around at Vigilante. During that journey she has participated in every single Task Force/Strike Force currently available, every Trial, she has participated in Hamidon raids on both Blue and Red side (and discovered that the strategy is slightly different depending on which side you are on), she has attacked the Rikti Mothership in the RWZ and has participated in every single type of ZONEevent there is.. including the ones in Praetoria. She has memorized every IO recipe and has even soled and destroyed Pillboxes in Recluse's Victory. Sounds like she has reached her destination doesn't it? Hardly! She is the Matriarch of my COH clan of characters.. She runs TFS and then builds IOs which are stored in the base for the others to use. She is sitting with 1.9 Billion in INF so every time she gets a Good recipe she emails cash to the others.. In the past two weeks thanks to some very nice Purple Drops that has amounted to redistributing more than another Billion to other toons. YEAH she seems to be a Purple Rec magnet LOL

I am looking forward to the new trials that issue 20 offers and to gradually building the new powers that will become available and growing even stronger. Since we currently have only one of ten promised slots open and supposedly only 3 (??) more opening up with Issue 20 it certainly doesn't shound like the journey is over by any means. I think we can look forward to several new TFs/Trials with issue 21 along with new powers slots to work towards and so on. So I hardly see the journey as over .. it now appears that level 50 was just the begining of a new journey to become an Incarnate.. to become as powerful as Statesman or Recluse perhaps even more so.. Oh and I may not have mentioned this but Tessa is NOT alone on the journey .. I have 11 incarnates and the 8th just slotted her tier 4 tonight after completing a Lady Grey TF. I will be very busy for quite some time.

It's both for me. I'm goal-oriented in games and reward-driven. That doesn't mean I don't like playing the game, I do... I like doing difficult things and being rewarded appropriately. A good example is the upcoming trials. They can be very challenging and the rewards are appropriate for them. A poor example is the Roy Cooling arc I just did that was moderately fun, filled with annoying mobs and annoying mission mechanics topped off with a reward that is completely unfit for the arc and left a rotten taste in my mouth. Seriously. 5 reward merits & 11k xp? Seriously? I got like 3 bars of xp at level 24 doing this entire arc from start to finish killing pretty much everything in my way.

It's the journey, for me - it always has been, and it probably always will be.

I worry about just how long 'always' really translates to for people like me, though. For me, the fun lies in playing new characters - in taking new sets and new combinations through the familiar ride of leveling to see their unique take on the experience. With all this focus on the Incarnate system as of late, it feels more and more like the pre-50 journey is being set in stasis for a little while. No proliferation - no sets - no creator improvements... just a task-force here and there that will quickly become ho-hum ordinary as any other along the way. I remember being so woefully disappointed when Going Rogue came into being. A whole new starting zone! I loved it. Every minute of it. New stories, new people, new places... and good ones, at that! And then I hit level 20 and saw the grand finale of all my efforts. Nothing has ever been more depressing than walking through that portal and arriving in Talos, only to realize that that was it. From that mission onward, I was going to be traversing the exact same grind I had been for so many years already. It really sucked the spirit I'd had up until that point.

I like the Incarnate system, that said. I really do! It gave me a reason to play my 50s - something I had never before done. Yet I can't help but wonder what the point of it truly is. We grind task-forces and trials, gain more power, and finally reach the top of the 'end-game' when we achieve our last Incarnate boost - whatever, or whenever, that might be. .... And then what? What do we use all those gains for then? Unless the Devs come up with something creative for the penultimate Trial, it seems to me like we'd be exactly where we were before the Incarnate system ever came into being: at an impasse. We can go no further, and yet there's nothing new below us to enjoy, either. The to-50 grind will be as it always has been, perhaps - and the post-50 'end-game' will have reached it's own wall. With little to show for it!

Perhaps I look too far ahead, though. Noone can say for certain what will or won't come of this recent focus - but between I19 and the coming I20, I'm beginning to lose hope in seeing anything anytime soon that will appeal to folk like myself.

Just the other day one of my mid-level characters was sent to KR on a Tip mission. Next thing I knew I was taking a tour of the zone and remember what it was like almost 7 years ago exploring on my sub level 10 characters. I got a lump in my throat. But this is nothing new for me. I'm always pulled by nastalgia to visit places from my past in CoX. When was the last time you exited Founders through the Talos tunnel? Or stopped to watch a costume contest that caught your eye as you were passing through Atlas Park. Or join a group of dancers in Pocket D as you were passing through. I do things like that all the time. So Yeah, it's about the journey for me.