Discussion: One game, one global server access
By
0verload,
Posted on: 2011-03-14 17:12 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Actually, active players are best equipped to deal with this. They're more likely to be paying attention and not just quit in frustration. What NCSoft is specifically trying to avoid is someone who is gone, decides to come back, and then doesn't know what to do. As someone who typically plays for a year and then takes a year off. This is something I can relate to. As the EU community is smaller and newer, this will likely have the least impact on it.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If they are no longer in-game or are not active, then that is one of the sacrifices they should be ready to deal with.
Put it this way; an active long term player should take precedence over someone who is not active. If it's an account that has lapsed, that is something that comes with allowing lapses. That was always true for name clearance in the past, the closest analogue to this I can think of. |
Sure most of those people won't be coming back, but if you were NCSoft, would you want to lose any of them? I expect the number who would be too confused to re-sub is greater than the number that would rage-quit over this.
And really? What's 3 more characters on the log in screen that you likely never type in. And global handles? Yeah it might be a little confusing to some of your friends, but I'm sure you can make it work with the rename token. It's not like they're destroying your characters. And if you identify THAT much with your global handle, well, I can't say anything more than "I'm sorry" and neither can NCSoft.
In cases like this someone's going to be unhappy--no way around it. There really is no way to be fair. If it's going to be arbitrary, better it be simple and arbitrary than complicated and arbitrary.
I do think the free reactivation weekends before doing this is a good idea so that you don't conflict with yourself. And I would really be surprised if if the name lock wasn't already in place to prevent new conflicts as Arcanaville stated. Account merges would also be great if they could swing it. Beyond that? Would you rather be cut off from the Test Server during Betas?
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The potential issue highlighted by the recent Play NC security updates and now this is - NC Soft seems to think the players are peons who can be treated as NC Soft wants and they'll just shut up, sit down, and take it. And that clearly there's no need to discuss anything with those peons about how they'd like it, because, well, they're just peons. It's not like there's any competition out there where these peons can take their money.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
One potential issue which was highlighted by the recent Play NC security updates: There are many players who do not have access to the email address their account was originally set up under, who may have forgotten their original security question, or any number of combinations of factors.
Again, I do apologize to the players who stand to be inconvenienced by this, however when all possible variables were factored in, we feel this was the proper decision to make. |
OK, here's a suggestion that will be summary ignored, probably get this post deleted and maybe get my account suspended, but here goes.
TALK TO US. BEFORE IT'S A FAIT ACCOMPLI. In spite of what sometimes seems the best efforts of those setting policy, you've got a highly loyal membership, many of which are very smart, have a variety of expertise in areas such as consumer handling, management, security, and more. All the feedback you've gotten on the security change and this way of combining NA & EU and most of the feedback on the launcher could have been gotten in time to do something.
I'm not saying give the "community voice" a veto (particularly since the community rarely speaks with one voice), just collect the feedback early enough that it's possible to incorporate it and seriously consider the feedback. Worst case - you'll figure out what the objections are to your plan and be prepared with explanations about why you did what you did and be prepped for dealing with the side effects. Best case - you get ideas you hadn't consider and are able to make your customers happier. And if nothing else,
Yes, this won't be possible for everything. Creative decisions clearly need the view of the creator, you don't want to take a poll on whether the coming storm is the work of Nemesis, Fifth Column, whoever it is that really hates Kheldans, or Yet Another Marcus Cole. Some responses to the competition need to be private, announcing that you're considering Free Play or negotiating a license with Marvel to use their characters storyline would clearly be wrong. And an emergency security issue that needs handling now can't wait.
But just like you use customers as free testing and consider that feedback as you tweak what you do there, use us to improve the way the company deals with us. It seems that, in every interview, you talk about the incredible community you've got. If you believe it, use it.
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As always with City of Heroes, no good deed goes unpunished.
Give a group of players something they have been asking for for years, but tell them that in the process a small number of them might have to make a concession because of it, and suddenly that benefit that they have been asking for for years is seen as a slap in the face.
Yes, it stinks that some European players will have their global names altered - I would be disappointed if it happened to me too - but isn't that kind of a small sacrifice to make for access to, what... 11 more servers?
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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I remember when they talked to us before hand, rethought their position, changed some things, and then were accused of being underhanded for it.|
Originally Posted by GadgetDon
The potential issue highlighted by the recent Play NC security updates and now this is - NC Soft seems to think the players are peons who can be treated as NC Soft wants and they'll just shut up, sit down, and take it. And that clearly there's no need to discuss anything with those peons about how they'd like it, because, well, they're just peons. It's not like there's any competition out there where these peons can take their money.
OK, here's a suggestion that will be summary ignored, probably get this post deleted and maybe get my account suspended, but here goes. TALK TO US. BEFORE IT'S A FAIT ACCOMPLI. In spite of what sometimes seems the best efforts of those setting policy, you've got a highly loyal membership, many of which are very smart, have a variety of expertise in areas such as consumer handling, management, security, and more. All the feedback you've gotten on the security change and this way of combining NA & EU and most of the feedback on the launcher could have been gotten in time to do something. I'm not saying give the "community voice" a veto (particularly since the community rarely speaks with one voice), just collect the feedback early enough that it's possible to incorporate it and seriously consider the feedback. Worst case - you'll figure out what the objections are to your plan and be prepared with explanations about why you did what you did and be prepped for dealing with the side effects. Best case - you get ideas you hadn't consider and are able to make your customers happier. And if nothing else, Yes, this won't be possible for everything. Creative decisions clearly need the view of the creator, you don't want to take a poll on whether the coming storm is the work of Nemesis, Fifth Column, whoever it is that really hates Kheldans, or Yet Another Marcus Cole. Some responses to the competition need to be private, announcing that you're considering Free Play or negotiating a license with Marvel to use their characters storyline would clearly be wrong. And an emergency security issue that needs handling now can't wait. But just like you use customers as free testing and consider that feedback as you tweak what you do there, use us to improve the way the company deals with us. It seems that, in every interview, you talk about the incredible community you've got. If you believe it, use it. |
After the way the we responded to the forum rule changes I'd devalue or input on policy as well.
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Originally Posted by mousedroid
As always with City of Heroes, no good deed goes unpunished.
Give a group of players something they have been asking for for years, but tell them that in the process a small number of them might have to make a concession because of it, and suddenly that benefit that they have been asking for for years is seen as a slap in the face. Yes, it stinks that some European players will have their global names altered - I would be disappointed if it happened to me too - but isn't that kind of a small sacrifice to make for access to, what... 11 more servers? |
The problem I see with this is the more complicated the solution the greater chance of error.
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The key isn't the sacrifice, but the reassurance that every other feasible manner to resolve this without loss for anyone has been looked at.|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Yes, it stinks that some European players will have their global names altered - I would be disappointed if it happened to me too - but isn't that kind of a small sacrifice to make for access to, what... 11 more servers?
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I'm sure if Paragon/NCsoft have considered every angle (within a reasonable time/cost analysis) then us EU-types will be fine. As it is, this has been dropped on us fait accomplis and that's why you're getting the reaction you are doing.
We're all very happy for the change, we just don't want any impact that could be avoided to not be avoided.
As can be seen in the thread, Z is taking suggestions back to Paragon/NCsoft where he feels they are viable - if people have ideas to fix/reduce the problem then now is the time to air them!
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You make it sound so simple. So I have access to 11 more servers? Wow, thanks. Who says I will play on them? Who says anyone will? I haven't even filled my slots on my own server, never mind Union. (nothing against you unionites!)|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
As always with City of Heroes, no good deed goes unpunished.
Give a group of players something they have been asking for for years, but tell them that in the process a small number of them might have to make a concession because of it, and suddenly that benefit that they have been asking for for years is seen as a slap in the face. Yes, it stinks that some European players will have their global names altered - I would be disappointed if it happened to me too - but isn't that kind of a small sacrifice to make for access to, what... 11 more servers? |
My Global name is me on CoH. it's also me on Steam as it happens. Oh I get a mention on Facebook thanks to my global name too. People outside the game call me MC on occassion as well. Oh, wait, what's this? A completely non CoH related forum and I use the same name there too!
Many of the people I know on MSN, FB and Steam know me as my Global name. It's ME online since I started playing this game over 5 years ago. It's like having your name taken away from you, your personality, your nom de guere. Your identity. Some guy set up a trial account (hell, it might have even been me, I did try CoH US on a trial account years ago) with my global name 4 years ago and hasn't played since, or got bought the game as a present in 2006 and played for his first month then went back to WoW and hasn't even logged in since then on a free weekend, yet I could lose my CoH identity to him? NOT COOL.
An Active account should take priority over a non active account (possibly if it's been inactive for over 90 days?) IF the active account has a longer active account status? If someone has let their NCSoft master account details lapse and hasnt changed them so they can't be contacted, then TOUGH! If they don't have any active NCSoft games then TOUGH. They seem to be more worried about potential returnees rather than active paying customers. ALSO NOT COOL.
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@Miss Chief
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And if your global is shared by a person who has had an account longer then you and is active?
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Originally Posted by Miss Chief
You make it sound so simple. So I have access to 11 more servers? Wow, thanks. Who says I will play on them? Who says anyone will? I haven't even filled my slots on my own server, never mind Union. (nothing against you unionites!)
My Global name is me on CoH. it's also me on Steam as it happens. Oh I get a mention on Facebook thanks to my global name too. People outside the game call me MC on occassion as well. Oh, wait, what's this? A completely non CoH related forum and I use the same name there too! Many of the people I know on MSN, FB and Steam know me as my Global name. It's ME online since I started playing this game over 5 years ago. It's like having your name taken away from you, your personality, your nom de guere. Your identity. Some guy set up a trial account (hell, it might have even been me, I did try CoH US on a trial account years ago) with my global name 4 years ago and hasn't played since, or got bought the game as a present in 2006 and played for his first month then went back to WoW and hasn't even logged in since then on a free weekend, yet I could lose my CoH identity to him? NOT COOL. An Active account should take priority over a non active account (possibly if it's been inactive for over 90 days?) IF the active account has a longer active account status? If someone has let their NCSoft master account details lapse and hasnt changed them so they can't be contacted, then TOUGH! If they don't have any active NCSoft games then TOUGH. They seem to be more worried about potential returnees rather than active paying customers. ALSO NOT COOL. |
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3 rounds of jello-wrestling to decide who gets it.
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Originally Posted by LISAR
And if your global is shared by a person who has had an account longer then you and is active?
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@Golden Girl
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My only questions are these.
I have 3 accounts on my NC master account. One is this one, two are trial accounts (one is a US one). The inactive US trial account I know for a FACT has the same global name as this one, though the login name is different.
I don't want that inactive US trial account taking my name.
What is going to be done about people with mutliple accounts?
What is going to be done about inactive accounts?
What is going to be done about trial accounts (inactive or active)?
As Miss Chief says, my global name is also my Internet identity. I use it everywhere. I will NOT be happy if I lose it to an inactive trial account.
@FloatingFatMan
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Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
There is, of course, the option that adversely affects no one (as a few folks have hinted):
Scrap the notion of a server list merge.
Am I advocating this? No. But sometimes, you DO have to ask yourself what you want more. I understand people's frustration, but if you've been asking for this for as long as some people have, then you've tacitly proven willing to accept the inevitable inconveniences.
And before anyone bothers asking, yes, as a matter of fact I would be fine with this if I were in the affected group. Because, yes, I do ask myself what I want more.
Some folks have already claimed to prefer to quit than to (presumably) get one of the things they've been asking for all this time. Since there never is (and never has been) a way to please everyone, all I can offer is "farewell".
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Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.
I have a US trail account that I know has the same global, it was used for exactly the length that trial accounts can be used for and nothing more, as I considered the jump over the pond.
It would be really nice if a parsing of global names from trial accounts should happen. Or some way where those of us who own our global on both sets of servers can keep it.
I'll also add my name to the "geographic location should not give you priority"
And its not a good way to make 1 global community prefixing me with EU forevermore because my inactive NA account has my global.
Also as a side note to proce how stupid a system this is now... You have given us 5 or 6 months worth of time of setting up trial accounts for ourselves on NA and stealing other peoples globals for giggles.
Lets say I didn't like an Eu player I play with, and wanted to mess him up, its pretty easy if I know his global. Thats a massive and abusable flaw to the system. Not to mention any new players that come along and go "oh hey thats a good name i'll use it even seeing Id be stealing it"
The EU community has been very vocal about our desire for this issue, and we've all recognised long ago this would be the underlying issue, but this is very much the easy street answer, and its very dismissive at the moment the way the concerns are being handled over this.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
[*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*
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I had a response typed but Bloodspeaker and a few others made my point so I'll just look at the first part of my signature.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
I really hope the naming issues can be resoved another way.
I have an old dormant US account with same name as my EU one, am i suddently gonna have an EU in front of my account name and need a new global due to something which been laying dormant for years and is unused?
Its also rather easy for people to grief the EU players simply by just grabbing a trial and steal their names. I sincerely hope these policies will be reviewed before this happens.
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You're missing the reason people are upset about it. Its that the US have automatically first dibs on the global names without even taking into account of old unused accounts or anything.|
There is, of course, the option that adversely affects no one (as a few folks have hinted): Scrap the notion of a server list merge. Am I advocating this? No. But sometimes, you DO have to ask yourself what you want more. I understand people's frustration, but if you've been asking for this for as long as some people have, then you've tacitly proven willing to accept the inevitable inconveniences. |
If i were to lose a name to someone who've been playing as long as i have, i'd have no issues with it. If i'd lose it to someone who started playing last week and thought it was a cool name to steal simply because they're on a US account. I'd be rather pissed.
Several people have their globals in their forum sig, its really rather easy to just get a trial account or something to grief them out of their global they've been using for years.
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I would also add that if I were in charge of this system, I'd also make sure that any inactive trial account automatically loses to a paying account.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I don't know if this is possible right now, but if I were in charge of this system I would have instituted a policy whereby new global handles could not be created if they conflicted with either side, and that policy would have been effective as of the first of this month before the merge became known to eliminate that possibility specifically. I wouldn't have initiated the merge before technology to make that restriction possible was created.
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On the other hand, thanks NCsoft for demonstrating the complaints that will be heard when/if a server merge happens.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Well that's me hosed then. Do you have any idea how many other Dantes there are out there? There's no way I'll be able to hang onto that global once the merge happens. And so poof, a part of my online identity disappears in a puff of smoke possibly due to some Trial account from three years ago. You can colour me disgruntled.
There's always going to be sacrifices and I was prepared for that. I'm just disappointed that it had to be done this way and that age and status of account is disregarded. An EU suffix would have been preferable to be honest.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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I'll point out that players have been trying to use this reasoning for allowing players to take "unused" character names too. Not that the reasoning above has stood up, just that the same arguments were used.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If they are no longer in-game or are not active, then that is one of the sacrifices they should be ready to deal with.
Put it this way; an active long term player should take precedence over someone who is not active. If it's an account that has lapsed, that is something that comes with allowing lapses. That was always true for name clearance in the past, the closest analogue to this I can think of. If its a trial account, odds are they aren't coming back anway, and Trials in general should NOT be counted for this. That just causes so many potential problems. If the person has changed their email, surely it should be updated on the NC account. If they changed their email since then and didn't change their account one to match, then that really is their problem. |
And the name clearances in the past were for characters under 35 (first time), and under 5 the last time.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
First of all, the list fusion is good news, very good news.
I'm playing on Vigilance, and trust me we are asking for this for ages now. And if it means loosing my global in the process, well I won't be pleased of course, but it will worth it.
But I have to agree with some of what was said earlier, why an EU/US opposition when a Veteran solution would be much more appropriate? Loosing my Global to a guy who started recently would really annoy me, loosing it to someone playing from day one not so much. I really don't know if I will keep my Global, my wife knows for a fact she wont ^^
On top of that, I think I remember a similar situation occurred when CoV came out, names where made available if the characer wasn't played for X Days and lower than X lv (don't quite remember the details). Why not the same thing here?
Active account sorted by date of creation > account not running for less than 3 or 6 mouths > account not running for longer than that > Trial account.
Anyway that is still excellent news, but when D day comes, if I loose my Global, I will have a bitter taste in my mouth that will ruin it a bit the fun of meeting tons and tons of new players, event more if I find out that it is to someone not playing anymore.
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Signed.|
Originally Posted by Master Zaprobo
Okay, then perhaps in the case of name collisions ONLY, both could be renamed with a "_EU" or "_US" postfix.
This way, any inactive Globals are by definition wiped out and the Global Rename will allow the active player to take the name. Plus, in the case of a conflict, it's a free-for-all. |
Inactive/Trial accounts affected in this way wouldn't take an active player's name, so the active player could rename themselves back again immediately. Regardless on what side of the pond they're on.
A weighted-by-veteran-status method would likely be fairer, but the above would seem very easy to implement since the renaming tech is obviously already there...
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
As Miss Chief says, my global name is also my Internet identity. I use it everywhere. I will NOT be happy if I lose it to an inactive trial account.
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(Somehow I don't think I could ever picture you as SinkingSkinnyGuy...)
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Inactive trial accounts I would tend to agree. Inactive conventional accounts are another matter. I'm inclined to agree that it is a problem if returning players find they cannot log into their accounts, and aren't around now to know exactly what happened. I just called NCSoft's security circus a bunch of monkeys for violating a rule I'm not going to hypocritically look the other way on, and that is you can't arbitrarily state that if the player isn't active now, they are the best people to shift the burden of account name changes to.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I would also add that if I were in charge of this system, I'd also make sure that any inactive trial account automatically loses to a paying account.
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Of course, having thought about the problem a bit this afternoon, it occurs to me that this is significant:
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| Please note that codes will still not be interchangeable. For instance, a European code will not be usable on a North American account or vice versa. |
This doesn't solve the problem of global handle collisions, but it does solve the specific problem of people potentially being put into a position of being unable to log into their accounts. The system would ask EU or NA, and then ask for a log in. Somehow I doubt European players will suddenly forget what continent they live on, and even if they do, they second guess will be the right one. The prompt to identify yourself as NA or EU would in effect be a permanent reminder in the game client to returning players that you now have to specify this. It would in effect be asking everyone to prepend the appropriate prefix without actually having to tell people to prepend the appropriate prefix, and returning players are highly unlikely to be confused by the new question. The issue of global name collisions is an issue of losing access to a chat handle, not being unable to even log in at all, and is a lower priority item to attempt to preserve in my opinion from a customer support perspective. It directly addresses the issue Zwillinger identifies as the critical issue from NCSoft's perspective.
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Hmmm I don't think the problem here is the account name, but really the global name.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Inactive trial accounts I would tend to agree. Inactive conventional accounts are another matter. I'm inclined to agree that it is a problem if returning players find they cannot log into their accounts, and aren't around now to know exactly what happened. I just called NCSoft's security circus a bunch of monkeys for violating a rule I'm not going to hypocritically look the other way on, and that is you can't arbitrarily state that if the player isn't active now, they are the best people to shift the burden of account name changes to.
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Having to had 2 letters in front of your ID is not an issue, you do it one time and it's over since the program remember your ID.
The Global name much more problematic, it is you virtual identity you have to alter at some point. It won't stop you from loading your game, log on, starts playing, but it can stop you from finding some players you usually hang on with, but not enough to have their global name listed has friend.
Like a dog chassing cars...
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Genibus Nitito Canis
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It could equally well be that the NA servers are the ones moving onto the euro list. |
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Look at it this way:
Euro servers are the ones moving onto the NA list. It's totally fair to expect the EU accounts to have to change names if necessary. |
Actually, it's neither of those two. It's a merge of two lists into a new list.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Avatea's logic about the least number of people being affected is correct, as Arcana pointed out. The "If I can't have it, nobody can" way, or the "First come, first served" way involves twice as many people. In both instances, both parties in conflict would have to do something to either keep their name or change it. In the way NCSoft chose, only one side does. It makes sense for logistical purposes if anything.
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The query has to match two sets of globals in two databases and change one of them, depending on which database it is in if they conflict. The query could equally well change both names, or use another criteria to change one depending on being active, age, or whatever.
The point is, it's done by one script that acts according to a set of conditions. There's no practical difference in logistical requirements.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
If you really want something to hang your hats on, EU folk, you guys get 11 more servers worth of slots, while us NA folk only get 4 :P
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It's a bit like you moving to Paris, and suddenly French immigrations finds out that you're too much alike this guy in the census, so from now on, you have to have a sex change, no matter if that guy moved to Germany, was a tourist on vacation, or for that matter was you on vacation five years ago.
Is it worth it for access to another country, no matter how big it is and how great the food is?
Still @Shadow Kitty
"I became Archvillain before Statesman nerfed himself!"
Suggestion: Scrap the Server List Merge.
Giving equal access to every server to every player would be nice, but surely if it means that a handful of very vocal posters lose part of their 'internet identity' then the price is too high.
Right?
p.s. The forums being what they are, I'm guessing if there wasn't NA trials with the globals of certain people in this thread, I'm betting there is now.
Wow, thanks for sticking up for us. I'm sure if it were NA globals being lost, there'd be even more nerdrage.
How about some constructive ideas rather than just responding with 'suck it up Euros'?
Edit: thank you to those posters who are coming up with better ideas than the current plan of attack. Much appreciated.
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
Yes, i know that people should keep the details up to date, but there are enough people out there who DO NOT, and who could have (and maybe still are) playing. Hell, some email providers seem to have this amazing knack of putting *official* NCsoft email in the junk folder automatically (even if the email address is actually valid).
Whichever way it goes, there will be people annoyed with the change. *shrugs*
Then again, I have already worked out what I am going to rename myself if i have to (thankfully i have a backup for everything