City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Discussion: One game, one global server access

0verload

By 0verload,
Posted on: 2011-03-14 17:12 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggis View Post
Why do you assume everyone on Union will automatically leave? Most people I know will be sticking around. And from what I've heard Union Population is about on par with the mid range NA servers.
You can pry me off Union when you cut off my cold, rigor mortis'd hands and un-staple me from the server itself....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
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Posted

Do people really expect us to get excited over new severs after 7 years? Maybe when the EU servers first launched or when we first asked, but now?

Thats like having lived in town B for many years because town A was closed to outsiders, getting settled and having kids and then town A going "oh by the way, you know you wanted to live here when you were younger? Well we've now decided to open the gates and let you in if you want. But you can't bring your kids they have to stay behind and you'll have to change your name because someone who moved in last week has that name and our post lady is old and we can't have two Steves or she'll get confused."

Would anyone actually willing choose to make that move? I'd be more than happy to stay where I am with my kids and my life and all the friends I've made.

Yes I'm referering to my toons as my children in this metaphore

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
You can pry me off Union when you cut off my cold, rigor mortis'd hands and un-staple me from the server itself....
Ahhhh so that's why it smells funny on Union.........

Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
You can pry me off Union when you cut off my cold, rigor mortis'd hands and un-staple me from the server itself....
I'm not saying I won't roll Alts on another server... but I won't be moving any off. Union is home. I may travel abroad a bit, but I always return home. (don't point out I'm a kiwi living in London though... )

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightingale View Post
Is that fair ?

AND we'll probably NEVER even get to know that that was the case. Just that we lost our name to someone in the vast impenetrable cloud that is the internet.

Personally I don't think the Dev's etc ever really considered this properly, it just doesn't make any sense at all to me that they don't do it by veterancy. How on earth could they have thought that any of this was fair?

I'll tell you how the meeting went.....
I realise this was tongue-in-cheek, but I can understand *why* the devs are doing this.

It's seen as giving us something that they perceive we're requesting (my ambivalence aside, a server list merge has been long perceived as a "frequent request") and trying to decide on the most cost-effective means of making that happen (cost-effective from a "coding time investment" point of view, as well as dealing with the fewest number of potential grievances: I'm sure there *are* only a small number of global names which would conflict, at least comparatively speaking across the EU population).

What I would question though, is whether or not they understand just how much the EU userbase is attached to their global names. And how much of a hassle/nightmare it would be to us if we lost what we have long perceived as "our identity"... Hopefully they are getting something out of this feedback thread - it's actually stayed remarkably civil so far!! (EDIT: and questioning whether they've factored intentional griefing into things - if there isn't already NA version of "@Maelwys", and someone over there decides I'm worth annoying, from what we know they can create a new trial account with that name quite easilly and force me to rename)

Ideally, I would like the Devs to hold off on the merge until they can at least exclude trial accounts, and amend their script to automatically rename clashing global names to something a bit less daft than truncating it by one character. (EDIT: and thus also solve the griefing issue)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
You can pry me off Union when you cut off my cold, rigor mortis'd hands and un-staple me from the server itself....
I know there will be some ppl who stay! I will be staying on union... if i refused to play on defiant all this time there is no reason i'd go to a stupid american one. however lots of ppl will go to servers with lots more raids and stuffz

 

Posted

Purging the names of EVERY inactive account for more than a year is the best way to provide the least stressfull situation. Also, name purging those account will ensure that the company gets some added revenue if the account holder wants to keep their name.

http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/n...stumes%202011/

 

Posted

Where EU accounts chosen for rename because they were the half effected that could most easily be contacted?

Seems like the global name issue was just given the same treatment as account names after it was decided they wanted to modify the side they could more easily inform, instead of being a separate issue.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Wail View Post
I know the Korean servers werent that big of a hit but how many EU players are there? I wouldnt mind playing with my oversea friends but I dont think the time difference will be reasonable unless it's the weekend.
Ballpark figure? I'd say several thousand subs.

Though you're probably talking maybe a few thousand people who are really active across the four servers. Defiant typically has a few hundred on it at any one time during primetime, Union has a substantially higher population. Vigilance and Zukunft are the two non-English-speaking servers and tend to be very sparsely populated.

There are roughly 50-80 people on Defiant who you could call the "Vocal Minority", and AFAIK roughly the same number on Union. And I seem to recall a "Forumite" global channel somewhere in the mists of time before the website merge...

Sometimes when you log on in the evenings at primetime or at the weekend you'll see Union, and occasionally Defiant, sitting at two "busy rating" bars (yellow) at the login screen. Despite all the talk of declining populations, prior to the release of "Going Rogue" it was far less frequent to see Union at yellow, and I can't recall Defiant EVER being yellow before then. I've never seen either go to red.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow_Kitty View Post
It could equally well be that the NA servers are the ones moving onto the euro list.

Actually, it's neither of those two. It's a merge of two lists into a new list.



It's a query in a database. It involves one database guy running the query.
Never assume you know the technical details of a game change. People are almost always wrong, usually in ways they did not expect, but that's the point.

And when I say "almost" I mean "always." If I bet against every player asserting a statement like the above, I would own the game now.

Incidentally, almost certainly what is happening is the EU accounts are being migrated into the existing NA authentication servers, so it is in fact a merge of EU data into the NA databases. Its not, as you put it, an abstract merge into some new list, because the devs are not likely creating all new authentication systems for the merged systems.

That's neither here nor there in terms of what should be done to correct collisions, except a warning not to venture into areas you lack first hand knowledge of, because it cannot in any way help express your opinion on this issue.


Quote:
The query has to match two sets of globals in two databases and change one of them, depending on which database it is in if they conflict. The query could equally well change both names, or use another criteria to change one depending on being active, age, or whatever.

The point is, it's done by one script that acts according to a set of conditions. There's no practical difference in logistical requirements.
That wasn't what was being discussed at that point. What was being discussed was the number of players being affected per Zombie Man's comment, quoting and reacting specifically to this statement in the OP: "We determined that this was the lowest number of users that would be affected by this account name change." with the reply "Wow. Major math/logic fail. If there are one hundred EU players in conflict with NA players, then there are one hundred NA players in conflict with EU players. Your 'determination' reached a false conclusion."

Zombie Man assumed that the only options being considered were change NA account names or change EU account names, and either way the same number of players would be affected. However, a third possibility is that the devs considered an option presented in this thread, namely to change *both* account names involved in a collision to be fair. But that affects twice as many players.

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Posted

I've taken your concerns to the publishing and development team. We'll discuss some of the options that have been put forward and get back to you with our thoughts.

Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl View Post
How much longer before Cross-Server iTrials?
Although I have no knowledge to say this is happening, I am assuming that the server list merge is, besides a logistical simplification, intended to ensure any game-wide feature is propagated to the entire player population. The fact that EU players will no longer have to have separate dedicated test and preview systems is of course one such effect of the merge, but I would not be surprised at all if cross-server activities were already on the whiteboard being kicked around for some future update.

Again: no backstage knowledge of this, but it is the logical deduction I'm making.

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Posted

Arrghh.. The interface for accounts and game accounts on the NCSOFT site doesnt let me do anything!

I want to simply delete my only 1 day used (years ago) US trial... but I cannot!

I can only change my NCSOFT account name.. I cannot touch name or details of any of the game accounts!

Please find a solution to that!!!! It is a complete waste of space keeping all these never used trial accounts available...

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Posted

Thanks, Zwil. That's really all we can ask for - a dialogue.

I think the EU playerbase has made its feelings known, and I hope that something can be done to satisfy the majority's needs.

I will add, though, that the EU population at large seems to be VERY happy with the serverlist merge - it's just the fine detail that's causing issues.

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
I've taken your concerns to the publishing and development team. We'll discuss some of the options that have been put forward and get back to you with our thoughts.
Very cool.

I'd be hopeful that things like Liz Bathory and others have pointed out (their own inactive NA trial accounts [and, possibly any inactive trial account]) can be worked out.

While I see some global name sacrifices/changes being an inevitable aspect of such a merger, I do agree that taking veteran status into account would be best.

As I said earlier, I just hope that people don't get worked up about it right now.
Express the reasonable thoughts and opinions and place a bit of trust in things being worked out in a combination of fairness and feasibility.

Best of luck to all!

@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrox Saberdon View Post
EU has the smaller player count so you guys get the short end on this.
Yup. We get shafted regularly and on everything. Why expect any care or rebalancing now?

I have 6 years of Veteran rewards, paid at the EU prices, and for that get less support, no official events in my country, and have server maintenance timed for the middle of my day. Why should I not also be losing my global name of those 6 years to some American who already gets all the advantages?

There's a reason that Europe, which massively outnumbers the raw human population of the US has a much smaller in-game population on US based games and it is nothing to do with server issues.

http://www.savecoh.com/

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
I've taken your concerns to the publishing and development team. We'll discuss some of the options that have been put forward and get back to you with our thoughts.
Thankyou!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammon View Post
There's a reason that Europe, which massively outnumbers the raw human population of the US has a much smaller in-game population on US based games and it is nothing to do with server issues.
In fairness, whilst the EU has definitely had less official events etc, it's also had it's share of good times. And some VERY good + helpful forum mods.

You'd think it would have been very easy to forget about us when we were over in our own forums, yet I remember War Witch and a few others popping in for a chat... and Bridger and the other mods were always willing to stick their necks out for us and escalate any major issues we brought up. There were even several occasions where we were told certain details of patches etc. several days ahead of the US.

Comparatively speaking, CoH has fantastic player-to-dev feedback for an MMO. Sure, certain developer rednames which had a reputation for being vocal on the forums have left recently (Castle, BAB(s), etc.) so things have gotten a little quieter... but a quick glance at the Community Digest page shows that we still get regular heads ups on what's going on, and we still have a chance to voice our feedback.

We might not agree with the direction things go game-wise, but we hear about it in advance, we get a chance to voice our feedback before changes goes live, etc. And unlike the forums of certain other games I could mention, posts voicing opinions which are contrary to those of the devs are not deleted, and off-topic chat is generally tolerated. Even the things that have REALLY annoyed the playerbase, like ED and i13 PVP, we've at least gotten warnings and explanations about.

The dev-player interaction is the main reason I've stayed around for so long...

 

Posted

Zwill,

I know you guys are trying to make this transition as pain-free and easy as possible.

In this case I think a more labor intensive, and more generally painful solution would probably be preferable here.

Honestly, you're underestimating the loss of identities some of these people have been building for years. All simply because they started on or moved to the EU servers. Some will even be supplanted by accounts of their own that they left behind when they moved to the EU servers!

Honestly, a little bit of AI on nick collisions would be infinitely preferable to simply ousting EU residents.

And the criteria are VERY simple.

1: Inactive accounts automatically lose.
2: Trial accounts automatically lose.
3: If both accounts are either inactive or trial (or both), you get a double-lose scenario and BOTH get EU'ed/NA'ed
4: If both accounts are active, it goes by seniority.
5: If someone owns BOTH the EU and NA accounts, give them the opportunity to contact customer support and have customer support manually "tweak" the usernames for the preferred account.

More work? Hell yeah!
More equitable? Hell yeah!
Will people still have hissyfitragequits? Hell yeah!

Honestly though, this is one of those things where you should just bite the bullet.


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Posted

Not sure if anyone really cares but I'd hate my global to change, not only is my global my name in game but it has been my entire online personality for the past 11 years.

This is not just about CoH to me this IS me.

TBH, I really don't think it will affect me but there WILL be others in the EU playerbase that will be hit with the change.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightingale View Post
The other servers smell funny.
Sorry. Was the Scott Tenorman Parental Chili I had last night.
*POOT!*
Extra beans!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
I've taken your concerns to the publishing and development team. We'll discuss some of the options that have been put forward and get back to you with our thoughts.
Thank you. Much appreciated Zwillinger.

My frustration with this is similar to how it is in my job sometimes. My work role is as a trainer/consultant with a software company. And very often we're taking software from our developers and deploying it in a real world situation.

(I apologise profusely if this next bit upsets any developers who may be reading! You do great work, keep it up. )

Sometimes the Developers will develop something into the software that has often been asked for repeatedly by our userbase. Which is great, but very often they develop the software they way THEY feel is best and not the way the userbase feels is best.

This has often led to situations where the software works as intended by the developer but is utterly unfit for purpose to the user.

For a while we as Consultants and Trainers will feedback the views of the userbase and tell he developers of the problems that their solution is giving both us and the users. At this point the cycle usually goes like this.

Dev's insist that their way of doing things is right.
We feedback more information of why we need to make changes.
Dev's still insist that although they aren't the ones at ground level actually using the software in a practical day to day way..... they're still right.
Customer gets aggravated and flags the issues to an account manager.
Account Manager gets in touch with Dev's to see if we can change things.
Dev's insist that the software is fit for purpose just the way it is.
More customers and account managers start complaining of the same thing.
Eventually things get escalated and senior managers get involved.
A workshop between the Dev's and the customers is arranged.
The DEv's FINALLY understand the situation after they see the software being used in the real world and understand the real world issues.
The Dev's finally make the changes that should have been in the software months before.

I see this time and time again. And this kinda smells like that.

It's like the Dev's here have decided on the best way to do something before they've actually considered the real world impact this is going to have on a loyal and paying userbase.

In my example above very often alot of remedial work and alot of bad feeling and customer unhappiness could have been avoided by just taking into consideration how things are in the real world.

I really hope that what we the EU players have fed back here changes some mind for you guys to do this the RIGHT WAY. And not just the way you think is easiest for you.

The very fact I'm posting here is indication of how strongly I feel. I rarely frequent the boards these days except to browse from time to time. And looking at the thread there's quite alot of other peeps on here who don't have big post counts who have felt the need to speak up too.

I hope we're listened to.

Blueside Level 50's.... Knightingale (Def), Rogue Elevenex (Blast), Lady Rogue (Scrap), Mr Infinity (Tank), Miss Infinity (Troller), Knight.Shade (WS), Knight.Bringer (PB)
Redside Level 50's... Colonel Rogue (Brute), Sergeant Domino (Stalk), F411-OUT (Dom)
Next Project: Psiryn Psi/Psi Cor Global Handle is @Knightingale

 

Posted

What Knighty said +1

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz Bathory View Post
Arrghh.. The interface for accounts and game accounts on the NCSOFT site doesnt let me do anything!

I want to simply delete my only 1 day used (years ago) US trial... but I cannot!

I can only change my NCSOFT account name.. I cannot touch name or details of any of the game accounts!

Please find a solution to that!!!! It is a complete waste of space keeping all these never used trial accounts available...
This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have an american account i have never even logged into (trial) it needs to die before this happens