[Analysis] Why Emperor Cole?


Dr_Darkspeed

 

Posted

The Well of the Furies appears to be favoring Emperor Cole over the other Incarnates.

Why?



Well ... let's analyze what we know ...



Statesman
It is explicitly stated in context that Statesman, although not rejecting the power of the Well outright, does not trust the Well. So although he is the modern incarnation of Zeus, he isn't reaching for yet more power ... from the Well or anywhere else. Furthermore, Statesman has chosen a path for himself where he doesn't want anyone else to fall for the Well's temptations of power. Statesman's position vis-a-vis the Well is essentially one of maintenance ... of maintaining the status quo. He's not willing to risk the balance that has been achieved. For this reason, Statesman is a less than satisfactory vessel for the Well's power(s).



Lord Recluse
It is explicitly stated in context that Lord Recluse wants to be free of the Well's influence(s) ... without losing the power(s) he's gained from it. He wants to keep his power, and/or increase it ... but not through the Well. It could be speculated that Recluse actually FEARS the Well of the Furies, and as such fights against its claim on his destiny. This is why Lord Recluse had the Web built which players encounter in the Statesman Task Force, since it is a means and a way for Lord Recluse to increase his powers without relying on the Well. So although Lord Recluse hungers for power, he refuses to surrender himself to the Well completely. For this reason, Lord Recluse is probably the greatest "failure" as a vessel for the Well's power(s) ... which is ironic when considering that Lord Recluse, as a villain, desires FREEDOM more than he craves POWER.



Reichsman
It is explicitly stated in context that Reichsman has been draining other dimensions of power so as to increase his own. One would think that this would draw the "favor" of the Well to Reichsman, since he is very much following the Path To POWER. Except ... Reichsman isn't following the Path to Power through the Well. Instead, like Lord Recluse, he is seeking a way to augment his powers outside of the Well ... in this case, by draining it from other dimensions. It is therefore almost as if Reichsman is a curious combination of Statesman and Lord Recluse, as far as motivations go. He does not "reject" the Well, but he also does not seek to draw ever more power from it. Instead, he seeks other sources of power outside the Well ... perhaps to limit the "claim" the Well can make on his destiny. It is this motivation, where Reichsman turns away from the Well in his quest for ever more power, that makes him a less than ideal "vessel" for the Well of the Furies power. Yes, he seeks power, and yes, he's good at accumulating it ... but he does so not through the Well itself.



Emperor Cole
In Emperor Cole, we find a "vessel" for the Well's power which is perhaps most closely aligned with the Well's purpose ... someone who will draw ever more power from the Well itself, *and* ... as we see in Issue 20 ... infuse that power into others, and in so doing, bind them to the Well also. Near as I can tell from what we've seen so far, the Well of the Furies cares nothing for Good or Evil ... as those are Human Concepts. Instead, it appears that the Well seeks only to release power to be used by whomever it deems worthy. That "worthy" clause is looking an awful lot like it means those who are not only willing and able to accumulate power ... but are also motivated to use it. And among those favored by the Well, the Well is seeking "vessels" who will seek to draw more and more power from the Well itself, not from outside sources. In a manner of speaking, the Well seeks those who can not only get drunk on power, but who will also become addicted to its use ... specifically the use of the Well's power. In this, of all the Incarnates that we know about, Emperor Cole most closely fits the bill of the Well's "ideal" ... which is why, it appears, that the Well of the Furies favors Emperor Cole over the other major Incarnates (that we know of). Because it all comes down, ultimately, to what drives a man, to seek ... and use ... POWER.



The power to create, the power to destroy ... the power to liberate, the power to enslave ... the power of good, the power of evil ... it's all the same to the Well of the Furies. What matters is that that power be USED ... and it is simply not possible to USE power, and not be changed by it ...

Power corrupts, and absolute power ... well ...

With great power comes great responsibility.
But with absolute power ... responsibility, can be ... dispensed with ... along with morals, and even life itself.



Thank you Stan Lee. You're an inspiration to us all.


It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

 

Posted

I brought this up last nite to my sgmates, and we came to alot of the same conclusions you did.

I agree that Cole seems to relish the power of the Well and is passing the power around, which in turn makes the Well.....happy?


While Cole is a major threat, why did the Well choose him? I understand about States,Recluse, and Reichs they don't want to lose control.Why not Nemesis? Or some of the other major players.

Is Cole so far gone in his tyranny that he would give up his control just to win?
Something of note too how does Praetoria Hami tie into this? Or does it?
If Cole has the power of the Incarnates and he couldn't kill Hami how tough is that thing then?

Too many questions, bring up too many questions.


 

Posted

Nemesis probably doesn't trust the Well- or the Well doesn't trust Nemesis! While we have no idea the what the ultimate goal of the Well is... I'd argue that we/the well quite possibly have even less of a clue what Nemesis' goal is (being basically a thirty xanatos pileup... just by himeself!). Nemesis' goals might and probably are completely orthogonal to acquiring mere power.

Emperor Cole might also not be the only entity that the Well has been pouring power into... just the only one we've encountered. Rularuu may or may not have a connection to the Well, and we still don't know much of anything about the Coming Storm- they might also somehow have a connection (hell, the Well's purpose might be to fight the Coming Storm!). There might be an as-of-yet unknown group that'll have a major impact on the future story that have very strong ties (surely in the entire multiverse Emperor Cole isn't the only one thats been willing to accept the Well's power).


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
Power corrupts, and absolute power ... well ...
Just felt like pointing out that John Acton's actual maxim is "All power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

It does seem that the Well presently doesn't care how its power gets used just so long as it is used. Thus the current situation where the Well is happy to have those granted its power expending that power against each other. The question is whether this is merely a preliminary step to directing the Well's power against something other than its pawns/agents, or if the whole point is simply to release more of the Well's power into the multiverse regardless of how it's expended.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Larker View Post
Something of note too how does Praetoria Hami tie into this? Or does it?
If Cole has the power of the Incarnates and he couldn't kill Hami how tough is that thing then?
Well some have stated that Hamidon is also an Incarnate, but i haven't read anything that confirms this myself.


Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU View Post
I think we're overlooking the obvious answer here; it's all a Nemesis plot.
You rang?


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
In Emperor Cole, we find a "vessel" for the Well's power which is perhaps most closely aligned with the Well's purpose ... someone who will draw ever more power from the Well itself, *and* ... as we see in Issue 20 ... infuse that power into others, and in so doing, bind them to the Well also. Near as I can tell from what we've seen so far, the Well of the Furies cares nothing for Good or Evil ... as those are Human Concepts. Instead, it appears that the Well seeks only to release power to be used by whomever it deems worthy. That "worthy" clause is looking an awful lot like it means those who are not only willing and able to accumulate power ... but are also motivated to use it. And among those favored by the Well, the Well is seeking "vessels" who will seek to draw more and more power from the Well itself, not from outside sources. In a manner of speaking, the Well seeks those who can not only get drunk on power, but who will also become addicted to its use ... specifically the use of the Well's power. In this, of all the Incarnates that we know about, Emperor Cole most closely fits the bill of the Well's "ideal" ... which is why, it appears, that the Well of the Furies favors Emperor Cole over the other major Incarnates (that we know of). Because it all comes down, ultimately, to what drives a man, to seek ... and use ... POWER.
I think it's because he's a snappy dresser, but your theory is OK, too.


PenanceжTriage

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Larker View Post
Why not Nemesis?
Nemesis is a puppet master and control freak. If the Well chose him as its puppet, Nemesis would simply reject it and resign himself to the slow path to power that all the players pick. Or just not even go that path because he has all the irons in the fire.

The Well needs someone who is both incredibly powerful to even qualify as an Incarnate in the first place and incredibly stupid enough to become its slave completely. Lord Recluse and Reichsman knew better than to become fully controlled by the Well, but apparently Tyrant is not so smart.

You know, at this point, I find it more interesting to find out why Tyrant would be so willing to apparently relinquish his own free will when he has so far been shown as a paranoid control freak. You'd think giving himself over to the Well would fire up his paranoia big time.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxilicious View Post
You know, at this point, I find it more interesting to find out why Tyrant would be so willing to apparently relinquish his own free will when he has so far been shown as a paranoid control freak. You'd think giving himself over to the Well would fire up his paranoia big time.
I'd guess it has something to do with the confrontation with Hamidon. There has been some talk of Cole somehow being able to control Hami, and since Hami is an Incarnate (well, I assume the Praetorian one is as well) and the well can control Incarnates.

If during the battle, which may have seemed hopeless, The Well offered Cole the power he needed to save the world, then Cole may well have taken it. (The Well may erven have powered up Hami to force the issue to start with)


Always remember, we were Heroes.

 

Posted

It's also possible that Cole is such a control freak BECAUSE he gave up control to the Well. Once he gave up his control, he may have become determined to not lose control to others again. Bit of a "close the barn after the horses get out", but people do things like this all the time.


 

Posted

A little something to mix things up.

The Lady Grey. The world's first Incarnate to become such OUTSIDE the Well? She knows a lot about the path, and is supposedly on the same level as Statesman and Recluse. What makes HER unique amongst the great and powerful?

Don't forget Hero-1 as well, he qualified as an Incarnate before he got all Rikti'd up. A failed Incarnate? Or a suppressed one? In his position as being a Rikti puppet, does that make him MORE prone to the Well's influence?


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
A little something to mix things up.

The Lady Grey. The world's first Incarnate to become such OUTSIDE the Well? She knows a lot about the path, and is supposedly on the same level as Statesman and Recluse. What makes HER unique amongst the great and powerful?
this is what kind of confused me when i read the stuff, lady grey does not seem like incarnate type, and whenever you see her in mishs, shes this pitifully weak signature boss, not even an EB, a small ambush of rogue vanguard could wipe here in seconds

as to your mention of hero1, i think since hes been riktified, hes been mostly trapped until he comes back in the LGTF and shown in the mender ramiel arc, his mind is prolly too much of a battleground for the well to make much use of him since his original self is fighting to stay in control of the rikti version, and the well knows trying to take control of both parts might end up destroying him mentally so hes just a empty husk


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Right View Post
It's also possible that Cole is such a control freak BECAUSE he gave up control to the Well. Once he gave up his control, he may have become determined to not lose control to others again. Bit of a "close the barn after the horses get out", but people do things like this all the time.
Or it could be that Cole is not Zeus but another force with a more paranoid bent. I do wonder if he got a bit of tartarus when he killed Stephan.

I find it interesting that on the Ramiel arc the Well seems to avoid Silos. Silos is definitely looking for it, Ramiel is just helping. Silos makes sure to get to it before the player and it is already gone. Ramiel waits until after Silos leaves to tell players to look around for any signs. I don't think the well is the only one who thinks Nemesis isn't a fit vessel.

One thing I find interesting about the theory that the well wants vessels who seek for more power through it, is that it doesn't show any signs of taking back its power from failed vessels like States or Recluse, or even Trapdoor. I wonder about Stheno who we also know to be a weak Incarnate (my reading is that she chose power through her offspring, not more strength from the well, but she might be a candidate for a future arc). And all of us players are seeking more power through the well but also keeping our free will. It continues to grant us more. Potentially even more than it gave to Cole, so the theory that it "wants" vessels to surrender free will I think is flawed. I think it doesn't care one way or the other about will, just like good and evil, free will is totally irrelevant to the well. With freedom you get the power slowly, without it you get the power quickly, other than that, the well doesn't care.

fun thread =)


"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.

 

Posted

Well, if I may toss in my 2 inf,

From the beginning, CoX has always been based off of the Greek myths and epics and as such I find it interesting that up until now, we've only seen two thirds of a MAJOR part of those epics.

Consider, if States is Zeus and Recluse is Hades, then who's Poseidon? You know, the one god powerful enough to take on both of his brothers, yet doesn't.

Another thing to consider, at least in paralleling the Greek myths to CoX, consider that in the Iliad, Troy was represented by Poseidon. Could Nemesis' initial foray into Praetoria (I seem to remember Nemesis went there before they came over, but my memory may be rusty), be considered equivalent to the Trojan Horse, in which case there may be that whole "what has happened before, will happen again" kinda goofiness?

Also, when it comes to seeing which of the NPC's are Incarnates, consider what they stand for, as in States/Zeus ~ the nobler aspects, Recluse/Hades ~ not so noble aspects. What does Lady Grey stand for? The Hamidon? Hero 1? Your own character?

Finally, as I haven't played too much of the end game stuff, I could be wrong, what if the Well is showing favoritism simply to test its' chosen for that "Coming Storm" that I seem to remember is still waiting in the wings?

Anywho, back to the Kablooie CaveĀ™ for me!


My in-game spell check is 6 slotted for damage.

" I assure you, my good man, Nemesis is most definitely 'down with the street.' Word up, my homie, as it were."

 

Posted

As I see it, the difference is how far each person is willing to go to get what they want. If you spare Trapdoor, for example, the well comments on that and states that it's disappointed in you.

Cole strangled his best friend to get what he wanted. He's willing to subvert people's free will for "their own good". Given his views of humanity, he may even WANT to give up his own humanity to become a "purer" guardian. He seems to have convinced himself that his goal is worth any price.

I think this is why the well has chosen him. Although, what the well is really up to is still unclear.


"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me

@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn

 

Posted

The way I see it, the Well is pumping up Cole and his cronies to test US so that we'll be ready for when the excrement REALLY hits the oscillation device.

"It was tough, but we just beat a GOD!"

"Yeah, good job. Oh, here comes a omni-dimensional entity that eats gods for breakfast. Have fun!"


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey_Kablooie View Post
Consider, if States is Zeus and Recluse is Hades, then who's Poseidon? You know, the one god powerful enough to take on both of his brothers, yet doesn't.
There is no Poseidon analogue in CoX. They couldn't get water looking right, so it became Energy Blast. Poseidon got mad about that and withdrew his support.


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Posted

Hmm, i think you may have it when you compared Nemesis/Mender Silos with Poseidon, also in why it doesn't appear the Well is pleased with him. If you consider why the Well is disappointed in Statesman - a lack of drive for power. Nemesis is known to be extraordinarily cautious (hence, his use of Robot doubles), to look to the long view, plan extensively and act through intermediaries; as Mender Silos he is even worse, he gave up the pursuit of power as a villian to 'save the future'. And he is content to do so in a way that is slow & methodical. He's practically the poster boy of slow and methodical.

Cole would have grabbed MORE power if he knew a greater threat existed, and by infusing his power of the Well into others he accomplishes even more: The Well approves and he gets loyal, powerful minions - but Not as powerful as him. The Well gets more vessels to fill (& possibly seduce into seeking more power). For doing so he likely recieves a power boost AND gets to keep his free will, since he is doing just what it wants. His creativity in this matter is likely applauded, much like the Well applauded Hero 1 for being able to fight his way through Rikti mind control. Not to mention that this pushes already powerful Incarnates like Statesman and Recluse to reconsider their reluctance about gathering more power through the Well. Even as many heroes and villians face the same choice and likely with less knowledge of the dangers.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
Just felt like pointing out that John Acton's
Lord Acton was actually his title, his surname was Dalberg (though I believe he used Dalberg-Acton too).


Kosmos

Global: @Calorie
MA Arcs in 4-star purgatory: Four in a Row (#2198) - Hostile Takeover (#69714) - Red Harvest (#268305)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noxilicious View Post
The Well needs someone who is both incredibly powerful to even qualify as an Incarnate in the first place and incredibly stupid enough to become its slave completely. Lord Recluse and Reichsman knew better than to become fully controlled by the Well, but apparently Tyrant is not so smart.

You know, at this point, I find it more interesting to find out why Tyrant would be so willing to apparently relinquish his own free will when he has so far been shown as a paranoid control freak. You'd think giving himself over to the Well would fire up his paranoia big time.
I don't think it has anything to do with Cole being stupid. The difference between Cole, Recluse, and Reichsman, is that Recluse and Reichsman are essentially just in it for themselves. Their personal power is most important to them, and sacrificing control over their own destinies in return for more power is not worth it. Cole on the other hand is fighting for a Cause. And that makes him infinitely more dangerous, because he'll do ANYTHING if he thinks it will advance that cause. He'll gladly offer the well control over him in return for more power, as long as doing so advances the Cause that he fights for, because personal power is not the end itself, it's just a means to the end.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade View Post
I find it interesting that on the Ramiel arc the Well seems to avoid Silos. Silos is definitely looking for it, Ramiel is just helping. Silos makes sure to get to it before the player and it is already gone. Ramiel waits until after Silos leaves to tell players to look around for any signs. I don't think the well is the only one who thinks Nemesis isn't a fit vessel.
Of course it doesn't think Lord Nemesis is a suitable vessel. The Well knows for certain that there is a huge, steam-punk Cosmic Energy Conversion Trap (CECT) off in the back corner of the Shadow Shard with it's name on it.

I22: CECTarian Warfare. Coming soon in 2012 from Paragon Studios.