What was your favorite thing about pre-I13 PvP?

If there's one sentiment that's echoed throughout the PvP community it's that most of you preferred the old PvP system to the new one. And while we got some great feedback in the last thread about things you like in the I13+ PvP, I now want to ask you all what your favorite aspect from the old PvP system is.

Please limit it to ONE aspect. What was the most standout thing for you in pre-I13 PvP? What was, in your opinion, the single best thing about it?

One thing I liked about pre-i13 PvP...

Diversity.

The current system revolves around damage, damage and more damage. Buffs are meh, debuffs are meh, mezzes are pretty meh too.
The fact that everyones now got resistance to most damage types means you just take whatever has the highest numbers, that's dull.
There were always certain sets that performed better than others, it will always be that way in mmo's. But the gap was never as wide as it is now.

Psianide

Speaking in terms of Team Arena :

The role/place for various archetypes/builds. Example being : Kins, Therms, Sonics, Storms, Poisons, VEATs, TA's, Fire/EM's, Emps, Stalkers, and Rads. Pre i13 I think you could see viable lineups that combined a good many of these builds. Post i13 you are lucky if you get past Emps, Psy/EM's and maybe a Rad. Not because there is no other option, its just far and above the best for the way damage, debuffs, etc work. (And this is with no HD/no TS)

Blasters do less damage now, defender debuffs are now resisted, stalker AS is a joke, so it takes more offense to reliably produce kills. This is beyond the fact that a lot of buffs now do next to nothing, and debuffs are hit very quick and very hard by DR. Add that in with the fact that everyone has moderate resists to everything, its just a matter of bringing what hits the hardest. I said in the earlier post I *liked* that shields provided resists to useful damage types. And I do. However, the fact that it was taken so far as to every squishy was given basically the same moderate resistance to all damage types. That part sucked.

So yeah, basically running 2 emps 5 psi/ems and a rad/ that TK's players into not being able to evade is boring. Very effective. But Boring. pre i13 I felt like there were more options there.


Speaking in terms of zones :

They didn't have HD and TS. That made them fun. Play a Zone Emp on a pre i13 RV, then try to play one on a post i13 RV. You'll see how stupidly frustrating it is.

Aspect: Buffs had meaning.

My all-time favorite PvP character back then was a Sonic/Kinetic Corruptor. When I13 came into play and my +Movement buffs caused travel suppression, I dropped her and never looked back.

Her special nitch has been devastated (Unsurpressed Movement Buffs), but to a lesser, though still large, degree all buffers have shared the same fate due to I13 mechanics.

Sorry, I got nothin'

Why just one?

I definitely miss the commitment to a character. I know the whole point of post-I13 PvP was to make it so that new players could be competitive with veteran players but that is kind of lame. If I take the time to build my character and practice techniques, why should a player who is fresh to pvp be able to be on an even playing field?? I understand wanting to draw new players to pvp zones but it just doesn't make sense to me. If you want to be competitive in pvp you should work at building your character up I think.

@.MIDAS

BIG BROTHER MIDAS, Ice/Ice Dominator, 1314 Badges
* Any toon you see with Midas in the name is probably me *

I could play my emp.

That basically was the only toon I really enjoyed playing in PvP, and I13 totally, and I mean TOTALLY killed it. I've never been a real PvP player, I would just go on RV with some friends to play my emp, like once a month, but since I13, I never played with that toon (I didn't PvP at all actually, since I13 killed all existing PvP on my tiny little server).
I liked being able to "change the odds", especially on duo/trio. I could transform pretty much anything in a invulnerable killing machine. Plus, without all that movement suppression, I could really "buff and run", with like 4 stalkers behind me. That was awesome.

Since I13, emp buffs are pretty much useless, and don't get me started on healing.

it made sense.

if i was fighting someone and i lost, i understood why i lost. the mechanics made sense.

there wasn't any stupid rules in place to limit skill and help pver's pvp.

TS wasn't overly enforced like it is now, the speed was quick which was awesome but the system, while having its flaws, made a considerable larger amount of sense than it does now. buffers weren't useless, builds made for pvp were were better in pve then compared to now were a pvp build in pve now is horrid.

so i guess i liked the more diversity(ironic when you look at the sig) and that the system and mechanics looked like it had some from of logic behind them.

My fave thing about pre-I13 PvP?

Simple -- my powers worked pretty much the same as they did in PvE.

-----

Background: I'd never given much thought to the PvP zones, mostly because I started out from day one as an altoholic, and for almost two years I had no characters above level 20. But after a while, the temp powers in Siren's Call finally lured me to not only visit the zone more often, but eventually even to play the mini-game to open up more store options. I13 was just hitting, and so I was theoretically one of those people who might benefit from the more level playing field that I13 was supposed to bring.

Overall, my first jump into PvP was marked by both good and bad experiences. I had quite a bit of fun fighting with lots of people in the Siren's Call mini-game, but I also came across my share of jerks, the kind who use words like "pwn" and "l33t," and who think it's a blast to take down a solo player with an 8-man team. But it wasn't really those jerks who drove me from PvP (jerks, after all, are found everywhere, and can be ignored if you try). No, what prevented me from getting more involved in PvP was feeling like I had to re-learn new rules for all my powers, powers I'd been playing for years. People told me I wouldn't be effective unless I made a second build for my toon - one which would work better with PvP. Seriously? Thanks, but no thanks.

If PvP is going to be different enough from the standard game that I need what feels like a completely new character, then PvP just isn't for me.

d

The thing I liked most was when powers worked more than just "at the core"...

The Thing I liked about pre-i13 PvP was that my Night Widow could take out a blaster, didn't matter the type. I built it to be a blaster hunter. Post i13 DR slams it so hard into the ground that just about anything can take it.

Hands down: Vomit/detoggling. Not that newer aggressive-toggle-only detoggling. No, The Great Equalizer detoggling. The Best way to drop a snooty granite using a MM or corr. BEWARE THE VOMIT!!!

In all seriousness though, it was a feature that, while only 2 powers had it, it could instantly level the playing field, should any groups *cough*Heroes*cough* gang up on a minority *cough*Villains*cough*cough*. "Oh noes, there's a granite, 3 blasters, 3 scrappers, 1 healer, and a troller camping next to the villain base under a bubble... oh wait.. <Gas Trap> ktheyredead."

The most standout thing for me in pre-i13 pvp would have to be that their was more diversity in what AT's or power sets that could be played, whether it was a 1 v 1 or an 8 v 8. You had tons of possible combinations to be effective in the arena. Now, just like Mr. Liberty said, its all about spiking the most damage possible to win. You'll see nothing but some psi/ems, maybe a stalker, and a rad used to dominate the current leagues.

I took over a year off due to working overseas, starting around i11, and did not come back until around i14. I would say 75% of the people that i played with, which was mainly in PvP had left and that boiled down to one issue. So i would have to say the one thing i miss the most about pre-i13 would have to be the community. The amount of people involved. The conflicts and feuds between super groups on specific servers. This all gave a reason to PvP, because it was competitive, and the PvP community was never dull nor did it lack the population to play.


~Infinity Server

Base Raids.

Which is actually just a subset of a larger point, a variety of PvP games is what is needed to make PvP fun.

Almost all PvP outside of base raids is a kill count game. While I like that game too, I do not like the weight it has in CoH PvP.

EDIT: actually, I agree with oz:

"Hands down, out of everything I liked in PvP before the changes, the thing I liked the most is PvP followed the exact same rules as PvE."

My blaster secondary effects and mezes weren't worthless.

There's no reason for me to use my holds on my Ice/Ice Blaster.

Like OZ said, it mostly worked the same as pve and made sense. Most all types of toons were viable and they each had a role in the team dynamics. Now? Not so much....

I play a spine/dark armor scrapper. The majority of my survival comes from my stun/fear aoe toggles. I used to pvp a lot in zones pre-I13 and did fairly decent. As soon as the non-resistable toggle dropping came about I couldn't survive against anyone in pvp. I haven't pvp'd in zones since with a few exceptions. I did not enjoy those exceptions.