What was your favorite thing about pre-I13 PvP?

Ha! Never. Seriously, I could never forget about this community, nor would I want to. My first interactions when I started here at Paragon was Mod 08 telling me to keep an eye on you guys.

I apologize for not having so much of a presence in the thread, but be sure I've been watching it closely every day, including over the weekend.

So, to explain my thinking and why I brought the topic up, and also why I gave the criteria of everyone giving me one aspect of pre-I13 PvP, is because I was looking for commonalities: specific things that users echo, because that tells us (in OCR) what the main points are. And over the past week, I'm really appreciative over all the feedback in this thread because almost all of what the PvP community has said in this thread can be boiled down into two really simple terms:

• Diversity
• Accessibility

And it's much easier to view feedback in categories like this, because you've got two points and all you need is to say, "Okay, well how was it more diverse? How was it more accessible?" And then there's the specifics, like how powers worked the same, which a lot of people in the thread feel was more understandable than having a modified PvP ruleset--which required a different way of approaching PvP content, and lead to builds that were viable in PvE but not PvP. So, I've been taking a look at all of your comments throughout the week and noticed these two points are the common denominators.

About further thoughts or a general timeline...I'm not going to blow smoke at you guys about what this may or may not accomplish in the future. That's not something I want to do, not just because I'm "not allowed" to comment, but also because it's something I don't want to do to any of our subcommunities, least of all PvP.

So while I won't say anything to one effect or another about what will happen with PvP, I do want everyone to know that this feedback serves two vital purposes:

• It helps OCR understand the community's issues better
• It says that you're still here and still have enough passion about PvP to actually come in and post feedback

And that second one is always something I'd like for our subcommunities to know is important. It's as important to you as it is to us. So again, I want to thank everyone for all the feedback thus far, whether it was detailed or just single sentence stuff, it's all been informative. I hope we'll continue to receive more as we pick your guys' brains with more threads like these.

Maybe I'm foolish, but I still harbor some hope. For one, it takes them years to filter ideas into the game. If you recall the famous survey from the summer of 2008, you'd remember how they hinted at the mission architect, power customization, side switching, and the "universal enhancement slots" which are becoming the incarnate boosts. It took them two years or more to get that into the game. That survey also mentioned PvP in a new space station zone, which we have obviously have not gotten.

It wasn't long after that survey was released that we started beta testing Issue 13. And that lead to Castle's famous PvP Power changes post where he said:
And that was followed up by Positron's infamous quote:
So maybe they abandoned all these plans. But I think that they have something for PvP on the horizon. Hopefully it's an improvement.

So, no timeline, can't say one way or the other about any changes... sorry but sounds like blowing smoke to me.
You already knew the community's issue(s) . There are many good threads which we're told were read with a lot of good feedback, though sometimes you'd have to read past the 'trolling' posts.

Why i'm commenting on this is to pose a question while stating an answer to the original question.
Before I13 when i PvP'd with friends regularly it was zone PvP and in RV at level 50.
When PvP was enjoyable because you understood your powers, and they worked as they are supposed to, PvP back then was good end game content with variety.
The variety being that not everyone had the same psi blaster or regen scrapper, powers worked like in PvE & depending on who the opposition was in the zone you could adjust or swap toons, or swap sides
All of the end game content now, new and old can be blown through beginning to end in a week if not less.
This has been asked before, but..
The question, since we actually have rednames posting, Why not just revert to the I12 system, which is better liked, more balanced, and powers worked as they are meant to, then build off that with the (very) few good additions like toggles not dropping, taunt reducing range, etc.etc?
Is any of this a possibility, or are people stuck grinding PvE for enjoyable end game content?

Thanks for still being here, but you forgot

• speed.

This. I have yet to meet someone ingame who actually enjoys TS.

With the original mez system, toggles should drop. It adds a necessity of awareness to remain buffed via your team, or keep a BF running. Especially in team PvP, if CMs, Clarity's, Thaws aren't kept on people, they deserve to lose Def/Res Travel, etc.

Just found that to be an odd exception to the removal of i13s changes.

Diversity - how about experimenting with open power selection here (ie. PvP only toons that can be created by the PvE player when visiting the PvP Zones and accessed whenever PvP is accessed (zone and Arena) and that can be leveled up by playing in the PvP zones from a base level of X (probably the entry level for Bloody Bay))



Accessibility - Allowing AE to be used to create PvP scenarios (map, npcs and possibly goals); possibly putting a small AE outpost within each faction base.

Allowing for PvP only toons.

Assuming the availability of PvP only toons, normalizing the drop rate for PvP recipes and adding market access to the zones.

Adding PvP effects to ALL IO sets and doing away with the exclusivity of PvP set altogether.

Speed falls under the powers working the same way that they do in PvE, doesn't it? It's an accessibility thing, if you expect your travel powers to work one way so that you can use certain tactics, and in PvP they don't, that's something on the accessibility side of things for people playing PvP.

I took "accessibility" to equate to diminishing returns and heal decay, but if you have travel suppression in there as well, then that's great too.

I was just referring to the 'supression' factor, the idea of not having to pyshically click them all, back on.
I completely agree that mezzes need to work the way they did, a mez is a mez & thats part of what made them effective, and why if you didn't have bf's or team support you did deserve to lose the effects.
The 'suppression' keeping the toggles on , but with no effect until the mez was broken, or timed out is a good idea, and would add to the speed of a pre I13 system.

p.s. thank god for the interviewers that brought the neglect of PvP somewhat back into the light with the on the spot questioning of the system, even if the question was dodged.

specifically in the case of travel powers, yes. However its easier to sum it up under "speed" because we're also referring to the slowing down of your character, and ultimately game pace, when you do things like say pop an insp or get attacked.

i guess if you broaden the original definition form just powers working the same in pve to everything working the same as in pve, then you could put it under that tag.

EDIT: also while i can understand the inability to not give a timeline for pvp fixes, i think the pvp community deserves some sort of timeline on simple bug fixes. alot of the bugs that have been in game since i13 launched and haven't been fixed yet the majority being very very simple bugs such as numerical errors ect. . I really don't think that is too much to ask for.

I'd much rather travel suppression was only in PvP.

Here is the problem. You're soliciting feedback for changes that happened 7 issues ago, feedback that was given in force BEFORE 13 went live..feedback that was asked, gathered and presented by a much larger, much more organized, much more dedicated pvp community. It's funny you guys ask this when I read the hard ball questions the devs get at PAX EAST. "when will my male toon get a sexy walk?" wow...riveting.

The most recent interview with Warwitch I read seems to indicate she gets that turn based mmos are dying and fps mmos are duh, winning.The one thing they ruined with i13, speed.

There are truly not a lot of us left and more leaving every day. We have told you what to do to keep those of us left and how to attract a lot of those who left back. These excercises in futility only serve to frustrate us more.

Pretty much this.

To Beastyle

You've gotten your feedback before. Stop creating these mindless threads. There are plenty of other threads with feedback in it.


And yes you're still blowing smoke at us with this thread.

Sorry but what? Which "FPS MMOs" are winning? I can't think of any, period. Ignore WoW, they're so huge that they're an outlier anyway, but what the heck is a FPS MMOG anyway, and who has one?

I thought trolling was a bannable offense, get this kid out of here.

I'm guessing that hes talking about games that take place on battle fields and from time to time have some type of modern warfare. Not exactly a MMO, but it is stealing a lot of MMO pvpers... like me for instance.

Multimedia Genius Submission

since I a sure this will get mod smacked I will make it short. Why would i/we be fair to anyone who asked that question. It's obvious, same as the last dude who asked it (BTW - where the hell did he go...fired already?)..if you are hired as a community manager or whatever they call them and you don't get what people hate about pvp now, what they liked about i12 and the over lack of activity in the pvp forums...before post #1 then they really need to check thier hiring practices.

Is anyone really under the impression the devs, the actual people who can make the changes, don't know what we hate about the crap ball that was i13? That somehow, OH GEE no one made a list and presented it to them for 7 issues, that was the whole problem. Isn't ironic one of the biggest people responsible for the changes has been Sheened? DUH WINNING>

FPS = First Person Shooter


The only MMO FPS on the market is Planetside.

Battlefield and Call of Duty have levels and stuff similar to Planetside but they're sandbox games compared to Planetside.

Clearly you give them way too much credit. They're obviously morons and don't remember anything past the jelly donuts and constant WoW raids they do daily.