Storylines - sidelined?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-02-24 06:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Ooh, I forgot about that. Follow-up on Cimerora, getting a bit more into Romulus' master.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
But then I'd have to play a Kheldian
 Requiem travels back in time to ancient Rome and becomes his own grandfather or something after the Kheldian storyline anyway, so he's obviously trying to take over the world again, and the Nictus are somehow involved, as Romulus is so fond of telling us. |
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No other stories. In fact, forget Malta too. The Shadow Shard is THE storyline that needs exploring.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
First off,
This is a great conversation. The Lore/Stories are an important and vital part of CoH and a huge reason that many are so invested. So in reading this I'm seeing requests for continuation of the story of Malta and the Shadow Shard story lines. What other stories do you feel need to be further explored? |
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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1: Because it's part of the Rogue Isles so there are Arachnos everywhere.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
Most zones could use this sort of treatment, imo. Mercy in particular is an engima to me. Why is Arachnos there? Why are there people struggling to leave? What is the significance of two different Arachnos forts?
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2: Because it's a slum, and Recluse is shipping in droves of small time crooks, bullies, practitioners of the dark arts, and mad scientists. Your average civilian doesn't want to be robbed, beaten up, sacrificed to the forces of darkness and have their remains used in an unholy perversion of science, so they try to leave.
3: Because having two training/selling locations is more convenient for players who don't have a travel power yet.
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| Why is there a huge treatment plant on a small island? |
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| Stuff like that. The interaction between groups that are present in a zone too. St. Martinal: why does Arachnos have partial control of the streets, but the Family seems to have open control of other parts? Who actually visits a casino in a country run by a power-mad super villain? Why is the Carnival of Shadows allowed to exist openly (my guess is they have protection from someone)? |
2: The same people who live in the nicer parts of Cap au Diable. Some people manage to do very well for themselves in a country run by a power-mad super villain. Most of them are corrupt. Also, people with a gambling problem, which I'm sure the Family loan sharks encourage.
3: Why are the Council and Sky Raiders allowed to establish bases on Sharkhead? Why do the Freakshow get that entire slag heap and its surroundings to themselves? Why do the Tsoo have so much territory? Arachnos can't be everywhere, that's why they have you do so much of their dirty work. If it doesn't threaten them directly, they leave it alone.
That's the nice thing about villain zones; if an enemy group appears in the streets, chances are missions within the zone will feature them. If you're fighting Wailers you'll be going to St. Martial. If you're fighting Coralax you'll be going to Sharkhead. But heroside, if you're fighting Banished Pantheon you'll be going to....Independence Port???
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O hai!|
Originally Posted by Westley
With all the focus in recent issues on Praetoria and the Incarnate content, I feel like there is a lot of story already existing in the City of Heroes world that still has yet to be told. Open threads that have yet to be resolved. What are some of the storylines that you'd like to see resolved in future issues?
My number one answer would be the Shadow Shard. You've got four huge, BEAUTIFUL zones with bizarre creatures and a fascinating, but miniscule storyline that just hints at what's to come. But then that's it. We learn very little about the whole place, and I think that's a shame. I'd also like to see them do more with "The Coming Storm". What is it? WHEN is it? Is it related to the Shadow Shard or the Incarnates? Have we already avoided it? In the past, these things were swept under the rug with the explanation that "we want all players to experience all dev generated content" and that's why nothing ever moved forward story-wise. But now, with Ouroboros, I don't see that as a valid reason. Let's go back to those old neglected storylines and pick them up. I for one know that it would re-invigorate my interest in the game if they were... if the 6 years that I had put into the game started to pay off by allowing me to continue to work on the cases that I started to work on when I first became a superhero. So, what stories did you never see completed that you would like to? |
Iz u back?
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My $.02 ...|
Originally Posted by Kelenar
All of these. Dark Astoria and the Shadow Shard are the two zones that always come up whenever this topic is raised, and something needs to be done with the Blood of the Black Stream. Also, the Council/Column war. The Kahn/Barracuda TFs re-introduce the 5th Column, but right now, they don't really have any sort of in-game presence outside the TFs and a few street spawns. Give them some story arcs or something to explain what they've been doing all this time and what their plans for the future are.
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Striga is, IME, the natural place to explore the Council / Column war, although it's a zone that doesn't seem to get much player attention. Further, I'd open it up to villains and add in some juicy villain-only arcs. I'm quite sure that Lord Recluse would be rather interested in what the Council is up to, and the villain arc could have Recluse trying to figure out how to leverage the in-fighting to his own advantage. Throw in a side of mad science (Giant! Robots! With! Freaking! Lasers! or Vampires! And! Werewolves!, even Aliens!), and you'd have a pretty solid story to tell. Or several.
Perhaps there could even be an Arachnos attempt to take over the Council and Column. Or a simple plan on the part of villains to wrest technology from warring factions to sell (werewolf Freaks? robot tech for Malta, link to Kronos?). A hero arc exploring the same fight would be, IME, much duller -- it'd be all about cracking skulls, taking names, and trying to get the two sides to destroy each other. Yawn.
To get back to the BP, there are also lots of BP skulking around Striga. If'n I may be so bold, a 30-34 SF for villains could also be slotted into Striga. Both Scirocco and GW have strong magic ties -- perhaps they need something from the BP that could help to set up their patron arcs. For that matter, an ambitious SF could tie together the cemetery in Sharkshead with Striga and DA.
And, first and foremost, juicy story lines that heroes would not have access to. But everyone else would.
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The Origin of Hamidon. I have no idea where he/she/it came from, nor the Devouring Earth.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
First off,
This is a great conversation. The Lore/Stories are an important and vital part of CoH and a huge reason that many are so invested. So in reading this I'm seeing requests for continuation of the story of Malta and the Shadow Shard story lines. What other stories do you feel need to be further explored? |
The Coralax. (They have no back-story, although clearly related to the Slag Golems)
The Possessed Scientists in Peregrine Island. There is no explanation outside their name, or why is keeps happening! At the rate they're taken out, we're running out of scientists!
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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You're sure he would be? I'm sure he is. Ernesto Hess is an Arachnos mole, this is now explicitly stated in Burkholder's dialogue. Giant robots. I want. GIVE TO EVA!|
Originally Posted by BurningChick
My $.02 ...
Striga is, IME, the natural place to explore the Council / Column war, although it's a zone that doesn't seem to get much player attention. Further, I'd open it up to villains and add in some juicy villain-only arcs. I'm quite sure that Lord Recluse would be rather interested in what the Council is up to, and the villain arc could have Recluse trying to figure out how to leverage the in-fighting to his own advantage. Throw in a side of mad science (Giant! Robots! With! Freaking! Lasers! or Vampires! And! Werewolves!, even Aliens!), and you'd have a pretty solid story to tell. Or several. |
The 5th would be pretty stupid to launch a full-out assault on the Council's best-defended stronghold, unless of course they had help from within. Burkholder switches sides pretty easily in Mender Lazarus's arc. Perhaps he could be persuaded to switch back just as easily. And bring his giant robot with him of course. Those two "colossi" in the ITF look very familiar....
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| (werewolf Freaks? |
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| robot tech for Malta, link to Kronos?) |
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| To get back to the BP, there are also lots of BP skulking around Striga. If'n I may be so bold, a 30-34 SF for villains could also be slotted into Striga. Both Scirocco and GW have strong magic ties -- perhaps they need something from the BP that could help to set up their patron arcs. For that matter, an ambitious SF could tie together the cemetery in Sharkshead with Striga and DA. |
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| And, first and foremost, juicy story lines that heroes would not have access to. But everyone else would. |
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Off the top of my head, story lines that need revisiting/expanding/revising/re-imagining:
Skulls vs Hellions - Perfect for content for Perez Park. Make Atlas a Hellion and Galaxy City a Skull zone, to add zone-specific content to the other lowbie zones.
Tsoo - Expansionist Hmong gang trying to claim territory from the Family and Warriors? Perfect for three-way battles that heroes could stop and Rogues could hire themselves out for. They have the colour and character to be an interesting part of CoH lore.
Warriors - Tighten them up, give them a reason for being around other than 'Jack Emmert is a Classical Greek fetishist.'
Family - Get a writer. Netflix them a load of good mafia films and television shows. Get them to create crime families with mooks, people with powers, and just human schemers. Allow morality action in story lines. Simmer for 20-40 level range. Season with cross-faction story arc links to the RI family.
Trolls - Troll fight pits where they pit themselves against captured heroes/villains for tests of strength? Attempts to stop/corner the dyne trade depending on side? Bring Grendel back to kick Atilla's green rear?
Sky Raiders - Flesh the abandoned-feeling soldiers out, give them a reason for their crimes, pit them against the Lost. Make them a real 'Rogue' kind of group, with their good and bad side.
Banished Pantheon - See the Dark Astoria ideas.
Council/Column - Now that they're separate, how about some story arc love?
There's plenty of other ideas. I just worry that Praetoria will be the be-all and end-all of upcoming content, with its fingers in everyone's pie.
Like Nemesis.
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The origin of the Hamidon is one of the oldest arcs in the game, and the DE creation story is part of it.|
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
The Origin of Hamidon. I have no idea where he/she/it came from, nor the Devouring Earth.
The Coralax. (They have no back-story, although clearly related to the Slag Golems) The Possessed Scientists in Peregrine Island. There is no explanation outside their name, or why is keeps happening! At the rate they're taken out, we're running out of scientists! |
The Coralax backstory has been taken care of in the new Vincent Ross arc.
The possessed scientists are scientists that the CoT have taken over. That's...that's about it.
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Hamidon was a scientist who turned himself into a giant amoeba. The DE story arcs explain their origins quite well.|
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
The Origin of Hamidon. I have no idea where he/she/it came from, nor the Devouring Earth.
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| The Coralax. (They have no back-story, although clearly related to the Slag Golems) |
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| The Possessed Scientists in Peregrine Island. There is no explanation outside their name, or why is keeps happening! At the rate they're taken out, we're running out of scientists! |
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Whatever happened to that whole "Coming Storm" thing? 
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Just to sell the shinies to the Malta -- the way that Nemesis is introduced in a Freak arc in the 20s ... trying to sell steam tech to the Freaks. I like the idea of foreshadowing the upper level mobs in the lower levels.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Malta is too high level for Striga. Let's keep lower level content lower level. There's enough to go on there without bringing high-level groups into it.
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| Unfortunately level 30-34 BP don't exist. What they need to do is make a level 20-30 villain SF on Striga, and then add another 30-35 SF somewhere else. More SFs for villains! |
Personally the only way i'ld really like to search for a malta arc is if their group got an upgrade of sorts and less sappers/engineers in them. They are a fun group to face however the sappers/engineers just spoil the experience for myself personally. That aside . . . . .
I'ld love an actual story envolving an enemy group in which it actually explains how/why certain giant monsters exist. Synapse tf and the Kronos GM do this well by tying them into arcs [the one arc has the kronos in an actual mission] and i think it'ld be more fun to have more cases of that.
Avs are fun and all that, but nothing says "final fight" like a giant monster [pref on a mayhem style map]
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This. A THOUSAND times this. There are so many great stories and setups involving these low level groups that just all of a sudden ... STOP. And usually with no resolution. At least with the Vahzilok, you get a "big" (at least for your level) showdown with THE MAN Vahzilok himself.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Redoing (and making somewhat clearer, more "investigative" and easier to follow from contact to contact) the Skull -> Trolls -? Family -> ... ? and Hellion - Outcast - Tsoo messing with everyone - ? lines would be good.
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I'd like to go back to all those old dangling storylines and have you face off against the leaders of those organizations. Why do we suddently stop fighting the Skulls and Hellions? Let's give a reason, let's have us beat the leaders or break them up somehow. Just don't leave these things dangling.
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The Bonefire arc is supposed to be us taking the heads off both gangs. It's one of those things that's not spelled out very well, though. You have to read the website to note that the final mission involves taking out the leaders of both of 'em (who are just regular, albeit named, bosses). I agree they should at least be made relatively unique, though.
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Originally Posted by Westley
I'd like to go back to all those old dangling storylines and have you face off against the leaders of those organizations. Why do we suddently stop fighting the Skulls and Hellions? Let's give a reason, let's have us beat the leaders or break them up somehow. Just don't leave these things dangling.
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The Banished Pantheon and the Coralax are two enemy groups I feel don't get get fleshed out hardly at all in-game. The BP specifically are built up to be a big, scary deal and then it just.... doesn't go anywhere.
Dark Astoria is the prime example here; the BP moved in and slaughtered the population soon after the first Rikti War, shouldn't we have DONE something about them by now? The newest Exploration badges in that zone add a lot of depth to the zone, and might be a jumping off point for fleshing it out more. (The Astoria's Last Stand and Phantom Radio badges especially appear to me.)
Heck, the Pantheon have been in there so long there's a plaque for the Authority badge that says, "When the Freedom Phalanx became an officially recognized Super Group in 1953, the hero Vambrace made a pledge. 'Dark Astoria will be restored to its natural state,' he said. 'The Freedom Phalanx is committed to saving every part of Paragon City, even those that may seem lost. "
Wait a second... 1953? Wasn't the first Rikti Invasion in 2004? But, Here it says, "The Rikti Invasion came and went, and the people in this peaceful neighborhood were relatively untouched by the devastation." and then "The city authorities and Heroes, already reduced in number and staggering from the Rikti onslaught, had no choice but to relinquish the area to the Pantheon and wall it off. Within the walls, the army of Husks and Shaman ravaged the zone, tore the ground apart and sacrificed every man, woman and child in their efforts to wake the god Mot."
Hold on there, we had time to build War Walls around the place but not the manpower (heropower?) to evacuate the zone? Oh geez...
I'll get the caution tape and flashing lights, please mind your step and go around the plot hole folks...
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New content?
Give me some Dark Astoria. A Shadow Shard revamp would be nice, but DA is begging for it! It desperately needs a Hollows/Faultline style rebuild - the zone oozes personality and has great potential that is never utilized. In the current climate, our writers should be able to do SOMETHING with a haunted city full of zombies.
Existing content?
For the blueside, I agree with Memphis Bill. The low-level gang war is terribly underutilized. It's never clearly explained, lacks coherent build-up and then disappears entirely at level 20. It's extremely weak and looks terrible compared to the other two sides' 1-20 content. It's showing it's age very badly.
Redside, I'd love to see a better connection to Praetoria. Heroes get the connection shoved down their throats - villains barely have the Praetorians mentioned. There's a huge discrepancy between the sides that's really obvious with the Going Rogue content. Ex-Preatorian characters who go blueside can later confront their old enemies/leaders; those that go redside never hear them mentioned again until you run Apex.
I'd like to see some storylines involving various villain groups interaction with one another.
What kind of devastation would happen if the DE, wanting to wipe out all producers of pollution, and the Coralax, fighting to protect the waterways from pollution, met and joined forces?
Wouldn't the Luddites and the Gold Brickers constantly be at each others throats? Sure, the Luddites are all about stopping the PTS, but there have to be some factions within the group that take the whole anti-technology thing to the extreme. Wouldn't this violence spill into the streets?
And there's a hundred other combinations, how do the various villain groups deal with the Rikti (most notably, the magic users)? Or the 5th Column? Or the DE? Surely there has to at least be resistance between groups that desire to destroy/take over/reshape primal earth.
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As a random idea, I wonder if it would be possible to use Praetoria's disappearing-contact technology on the Dark Astoria fog so we got a neat visual cue of actually "saving" Dark Astoria upon completing the arcs there.
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Originally Posted by Tempest_56
New content?
Give me some Dark Astoria. A Shadow Shard revamp would be nice, but DA is begging for it! It desperately needs a Hollows/Faultline style rebuild - the zone oozes personality and has great potential that is never utilized. In the current climate, our writers should be able to do SOMETHING with a haunted city full of zombies. |
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A Shadow Shard revamp might have some kind of "teleport web" run by the humans, or weird dimensional portals that were a feature of the Shadow Shard itself to move you from one island to the next.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Not unless they add something faster for travel than the jet packs.
Those zones are freaking HUGE to just sprinkle mission doors willy nilly like they do in the regular zones. I think a shard storyline revamp would have to go hand in hand with a zone one. |
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Only with the "better writers" caveat. Because I swear, if Rularuu's origin is tied to the Well of the Furies I'm never reading another scrap of mission text outside AE ever again.
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Of all the things in the game that could be linked to the Well of the Furies, Rularuu must be at the top of the list.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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The Hamidon was once a normal man - a scientist called Hamidon Pasalima who used magic and science to transform himself into the Hamidon craeture, and created the DE - and is possibly linked to the Well of the Furies, according to dev hints.|
Originally Posted by Derangedpolygot
The Origin of Hamidon. I have no idea where he/she/it came from, nor the Devouring Earth.
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Whatever happened to that whole "Coming Storm" thing?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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If you're referring to the "down with the street" mission that gives you the Nemesis Staff, that's a level 30+ mission. It's one of the "introduction to Nemesis" missions. There's one Sky Raider mission with a single Nemesis Lieutenant in it, that might be in the late 20s though.|
Originally Posted by BurningChick
Just to sell the shinies to the Malta -- the way that Nemesis is introduced in a Freak arc in the 20s ... trying to sell steam tech to the Freaks. I like the idea of foreshadowing the upper level mobs in the lower levels.
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| High level BP exist -- remember the portal mish people farm for masks? It shouldn't be all that hard to scale something to the 30s. |
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Originally Posted by Caffinated_Hero
Wait a second... 1953? Wasn't the first Rikti Invasion in 2004? But, Here it says, "The Rikti Invasion came and went, and the people in this peaceful neighborhood were relatively untouched by the devastation." and then "The city authorities and Heroes, already reduced in number and staggering from the Rikti onslaught, had no choice but to relinquish the area to the Pantheon and wall it off. Within the walls, the army of Husks and Shaman ravaged the zone, tore the ground apart and sacrificed every man, woman and child in their efforts to wake the god Mot."
Hold on there, we had time to build War Walls around the place but not the manpower (heropower?) to evacuate the zone? Oh geez... |
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
A Shadow Shard revamp might have some kind of "teleport web" run by the humans, or weird dimensional portals that were a feature of the Shadow Shard itself to move you from one island to the next.
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Be prepared to skip text then Of all the things in the game that could be linked to the Well of the Furies, Rularuu must be at the top of the list. |
Scene opens: A bunch of heroes and villains are partying at Pocket D. Close-up on the bartender pouring shots from a bottle labeled "Well of the Furies." Quick montage shots of the heroes and villains becoming more and more inebriated, and showing off their fancy new powers. Cut to Poison Mastermind hunched over the toilet. Cut to Fire Blaster standing in the scorched ruins of a nice residential suburb.
Cut to Brute standing in front of a falafel place with a "closed" sign in the window. Brute: "I'm so hungry I could EAT THIS WHOLE DIMENSION!" Brute grows really big, hits footstomp, and breaks the world. Fade to Black.
Voiceover: Know your limit. Please drink responsibly.
No seriously, the only thing stupider than tying Rularuu to the Well would be to reveal him as yet another alternate Statesman. It wouldn't surprise me at all if GG thought this was a good idea.
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None.
The recent storyline work has been wretched enough that I'd just as soon not see anything but more static set-pieces like the new raid-level events.
Besides, most of it has been left languishing for so long that nothing the developers do to progress or end it is going to satisfy anyone. It is pretty clear that they had (e.g.) no idea what "The Coming Storm" is or who Mysterious Letter Writer Guy really is and have just been playing for time all along. Almost anything could be written to fit what little information has already been put out there, so really, who cares?
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Lots of good subjects brought up in this thread so far. I'm also interested in a few things that I don't think have been brought up yet.
1) When all of this business with the Coming Storm is resolved, for good or for bad, there's going to be a bunch of Incarnates milling about (or at least a few more than there used to be before the Well entity started making a comeback) without any godlike 4D enemy to be united against. There's going to be some sort of ramifications when the 'Hero VS Villain' business gets back into gear...
2) ...and what about all the non-Incarnate supers in the aftermath? Is there going to be a division between Incarnates and 'standard' supers?
3) Nick Pocker, a.k.a. "Tempter", leader of the Hellions, has been camping out in the Big Zig for quite a while. As far as we know, no one's tried to get him out. Devil-worshipping gang/cult leader? Humongous building shaped like that thing where they used to toss off human sacrifices? Nothing going on here.
4) Speaking of the Zigursky residents, we haven't heard anything about that popular guy Upstart for a while. Dreck gets by on inspiring people through strength, but he's terrified of what Upstart means to a lot of the Freakshow. What kind of demeanor and/or strength would someone have to possess for the Freaks to consider them as an anarchistic 'messiah'?
5) Speaking of people associating with the Freakshow, what's the deal with Weaver-1 hanging out with them in the past? He seemed to be a pretty popular guy. Where or who is he, anyway?
6) I remember back in the prototype Issue 6 overview, there were a couple of Grandville contacts that never seemed to see the light of day: Marshal Mayhem, Grandville's military leader and global extortionist, and Eliza Silk, Arachnos' 'Keeper of Secrets.' Are they still canon, or did they get transmogrified into a couple of other contacts?
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This is a neat idea. Special missions that only occur in the Flashback system.
Most times we can't change the time-line in our Ouroboros missions (according the the backstory on the villain side), but maybe for the special missions that don't occur in the regular game we did manage to change some thing.