Storylines - sidelined?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

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Originally Posted by Venture View Post
The recent storyline work has been wretched enough that I'd just as soon not see anything but more static set-pieces like the new raid-level events.
I think you could fix it.


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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue View Post
1) When all of this business with the Coming Storm is resolved, for good or for bad, there's going to be a bunch of Incarnates milling about (or at least a few more than there used to be before the Well entity started making a comeback) without any godlike 4D enemy to be united against. There's going to be some sort of ramifications when the 'Hero VS Villain' business gets back into gear...
If we ever manage to find time to fight each other with all the co-op content we've been doing.

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4) Speaking of the Zigursky residents, we haven't heard anything about that popular guy Upstart for a while. Dreck gets by on inspiring people through strength, but he's terrified of what Upstart means to a lot of the Freakshow. What kind of demeanor and/or strength would someone have to possess for the Freaks to consider them as an anarchistic 'messiah'?
The level 30-40 range has always been a little dry.... Please, can we have another Freakshow arc where they are portrayed as dangerous, violent nihilists rather than leet-speaking comic relief? Remember when their stupid names and the funny things they said only served to underscore their casual attitude toward killing people?

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6) I remember back in the prototype Issue 6 overview, there were a couple of Grandville contacts that never seemed to see the light of day: Marshal Mayhem, Grandville's military leader and global extortionist, and Eliza Silk, Arachnos' 'Keeper of Secrets.' Are they still canon, or did they get transmogrified into a couple of other contacts?
Viridian and Shadow Spider, probably. Those are some pretty cheesy names.


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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
the only thing stupider than tying Rularuu to the Well
So you think it'd be weird for the one truly god-like being we've seen in the game so far to be linked to the source of god-like powers?


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
First off,

This is a great conversation. The Lore/Stories are an important and vital part of CoH and a huge reason that many are so invested.

So in reading this I'm seeing requests for continuation of the story of Malta and the Shadow Shard story lines.

What other stories do you feel need to be further explored?
A redside alternative; the continuation of the Matthew Burke PoV.

Finding out more about the benefactors of the GB and what would happen if Brass can't keep them confined to Cap.

Seeing Darrin Wade's plans come to fruition.

More background stories centering on Recluse's Lts (outside of the Patron and high level arcs)

Delving deeper into the origins of the Council Nightwolves.

Finding out why Marshall Brass was so 'clenched up' during Ashley McKnights origins arc.

Flashback missions dealing with the origins of the many enemy groups; the first ritki war and the praetorian hamidon wars.

How Project Destiny could tie into Recluse's plan to circumvent the Well's power.

Continuing to build and expand Cimerora.

Actually being able to travel the Ritki homeworld in the time spanning from the first war through the Coming Storm events. Shifting between both factions, dealing with the the genesis of Nemesis' interference, etc.

Something similar to the above for the Nictus homeworld as well.


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Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
So you think it'd be weird for the one truly god-like being we've seen in the game so far to be linked to the source of god-like powers?
One? You didn't beat up Hequat, an actual physical, albeit weakened, god? Oh wait, that's right, you don't play villains. And we haven't actually SEEN him any more than we've seen Mot or Lughebu. We've only seen manifestations of his power, just like with Mot and Lughebu. God-like powers don't have to come from a source, they can come from being an actual, you know, god. Which exist in this game, and predate the supposed "Origin of Power."

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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
Finding out more about the benefactors of the GB and what would happen if Brass can't keep them confined to Cap.
We do know that Aeon is involved with them somehow.

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Delving deeper into the origins of the Council Nightwolves.
That would again tie in to the Nictus, Path of the Dark, and Romulus doing the nasty in the pasty. Which admittedly I am overly obsessed with due to watching Futurama while making a "nictus" outfit for my /Shield Scrapper.

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Continuing to build and expand Cimerora.
See above.


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Originally Posted by Westley View Post
This. A THOUSAND times this. There are so many great stories and setups involving these low level groups that just all of a sudden ... STOP. And usually with no resolution. At least with the Vahzilok, you get a "big" (at least for your level) showdown with THE MAN Vahzilok himself.

I'd like to go back to all those old dangling storylines and have you face off against the leaders of those organizations. Why do we suddently stop fighting the Skulls and Hellions? Let's give a reason, let's have us beat the leaders or break them up somehow. Just don't leave these things dangling.
I brought this up at the last Hero Con, in the storyline panel.

Why, WHY do we just leave them behind and leave them to be someone else's problem? I can't be the only person who has a character who became a hero simply because of the problem of gang violence.

I would LOVE to have one final storyline about breaking the proverbial backs of the Skulls and The Hellions.

Yes, there's bigger threats out there than street thugs, but I'd really rather at least have the OPTION to knock down the problem of gang violence in Paragon City. Sure, it won't do anything to stop the street spawns, but at least then my characters can pass the street crime and rationalize it as the remnants of a gang struggling to fill a power vacuum, rather than a gang that got completely left behind because they had to go to Steel Canyon and deal with outcasts, leaving Atlas and Galaxy in the hands of a bunch of hoodlums.


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Originally Posted by BurningChick View Post
My $.02 ...

Striga is, IME, the natural place to explore the Council / Column war, although it's a zone that doesn't seem to get much player attention. Further, I'd open it up to villains and add in some juicy villain-only arcs. I'm quite sure that Lord Recluse would be rather interested in what the Council is up to, and the villain arc could have Recluse trying to figure out how to leverage the in-fighting to his own advantage. Throw in a side of mad science (Giant! Robots! With! Freaking! Lasers! or Vampires! And! Werewolves!, even Aliens!), and you'd have a pretty solid story to tell. Or several.

Perhaps there could even be an Arachnos attempt to take over the Council and Column. Or a simple plan on the part of villains to wrest technology from warring factions to sell (werewolf Freaks? robot tech for Malta, link to Kronos?). A hero arc exploring the same fight would be, IME, much duller -- it'd be all about cracking skulls, taking names, and trying to get the two sides to destroy each other. Yawn.

To get back to the BP, there are also lots of BP skulking around Striga. If'n I may be so bold, a 30-34 SF for villains could also be slotted into Striga. Both Scirocco and GW have strong magic ties -- perhaps they need something from the BP that could help to set up their patron arcs. For that matter, an ambitious SF could tie together the cemetery in Sharkshead with Striga and DA.

I like the way you think.


 

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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
The level 30-40 range has always been a little dry.... Please, can we have another Freakshow arc where they are portrayed as dangerous, violent nihilists rather than leet-speaking comic relief? Remember when their stupid names and the funny things they said only served to underscore their casual attitude toward killing people?
Yeah, I've never been quite sure about how I feel about the Freakshow's direction since the earlier issues. Hell, as I remember, they get a lot of their members from bored successful twenty-somethings, but most of the missions portray them as borderline illiterate. I think there actually are a couple missions with jokes about Freaks being illiterate. Maybe Excelsior causes brain damage.


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4 years in and I haven't even been to the Shadow Shard. Heck, I don't even know how to get there. Having said that, I rebooted a number of heroes I have, and have been running as much content as possible, mostly solo, since I don't want to outlevel the content. It's been fun. Ran a Council arc the other day that I hadn't run, about a time travelling German from 1940, was pretty cool. Have one hero running the Striga arcs, eventually hoping to do Ernesto Hess.


 

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Originally Posted by thgebull0425 View Post
4 years in and I haven't even been to the Shadow Shard. Heck, I don't even know how to get there.
The entrance to Firebase Zulu is at Portal Corp - it's marked on your map.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Either via Flashback, or as stand-alone arcs, I'd like to see stories that flesh out the signature heroes and villains and their origins, especially some of the ones that don't get as much attention as Statesman or Recluse.

For example:

See how Ghost Widow went from a living woman to what she is today. I know there's arcs that touch on it, but I'd rather play through the story than just read text about it.

See how Numina came to be.

See how Manticore and his nemesis Protean got involved with each other.

Maybe see how some of the older heroes, like Dark Watcher or Vambrace did their thing. We've gone back in time to see Arachnos in it's embryo stages in the Rogue Isles. I'd like to see how the original Freedom Phalanx handled business.

See the original Rikti Invasion, where most of the Heroes got wiped out, and maybe do some missions where you buy the Signatures some time to help others. I'd like to see Atlas in action, even if he's just moving around in the background of a mission map.


My ideas are more just fleshing out some of the stories we get in text form as something more interactive. They wouldn't be pushing any stories forward, but I feel like we just got the Cliff Notes on a lot of them.


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Originally Posted by Kelenar View Post
Yeah, I've never been quite sure about how I feel about the Freakshow's direction since the earlier issues. Hell, as I remember, they get a lot of their members from bored successful twenty-somethings, but most of the missions portray them as borderline illiterate. I think there actually are a couple missions with jokes about Freaks being illiterate. Maybe Excelsior causes brain damage.
It does make sense that the Freaks redside would be dumber, since Arachnos isn't big on education. The general dumbing-down of the group also makes sense; they may have started as disillusioned yuppies, but their schtick would attract quite a few people who understand maybe two words out of "The fetishization of material goods is sickening," but DUDE! YOU HAVE A METAL ARM! I WANT ONE!! The Sid Viciouses, as it were. But it would be nice to see some smarter freaks sometimes, and I don't mean just guys like "Teh L34rn3r3r." Evil isn't always dumb, even the smashy smashy kind.


I also think we need a few clear reminders that they are hurting people. As in, body bags. Or at least some terrified hostages we can save.


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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia View Post
Everything everyone posted so far is full of win!

I'd also like some flashback arcs showing off more of the classic COH history stories (and COV and Pre-Praetoria for that matter) that we only hear off hand or read about in plaques.
That would be great


I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.

Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.

So sad to be ending ):

 

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Agreed. I'd love to live through backstories and see them happen. Like that story arc in the game that recreated one of Hickman's CoH comic stories - I can't remember it right now. I just thought it was really cool.


 

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I'll add my vote to something being done with the Shadowshard, that place is great.
Also, the Dark Astoria story lines, in particular what the Tsoo are looking for there.

One thing I'd like to see more of is the Warriors. The story line literally just kind of ends with nothing happening. We never get to see Odysseus, their leader, though the AE description of the warriors links him to the Well of Furies, which has now come about in the latest issues. The time seems ripe to tie him in with the current story line.


 

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I think you could fix it.
My fixes would likely become a matter of some discussion, since I would do things like utterly destroy Ouroboros and time travel in general, kill off Nemesis, eliminate all parallel Earths (not to be confused with alternate words, i.e. Praetoria is a parallel of City's Earth, Narnia would be an alternate world; I would reclassify the Rikti homeworld as an alternate world) and probably Kill Off For Real all or most of the signature characters.


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Originally Posted by thgebull0425 View Post
Ran a Council arc the other day that I hadn't run, about a time travelling German from 1940, was pretty cool.
Actually that raises a point I'd like to see, something that wasn't so much sidelined as completely gutted.

Arcs involving the 5th Column that were converted to Council (very shoddily most of the time) to be converted back to 5th Column again. Ublemann (the time travelling arc) makes VASTLY more sense when it's the 5th Column and not the Council (Council are an Italian faschist group, not German).


 

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Originally Posted by Venture View Post
My fixes would likely become a matter of some discussion, since I would do things like utterly destroy Ouroboros and time travel in general, kill off Nemesis, eliminate all parallel Earths (not to be confused with alternate words, i.e. Praetoria is a parallel of City's Earth, Narnia would be an alternate world; I would reclassify the Rikti homeworld as an alternate world) and probably Kill Off For Real all or most of the signature characters.
Somebody PLEASE kill off Nemesis. Make it so Mender Silos is lying. He's just some guy, pretending to be Nemesis because....I don't know, make something up, it'll probably be better than another Nemesis plot. Oh, and all his good fakes explode (because steam powered things sometimes do that) leaving only crappy mindless fakes so we can still get the badge, thus putting an end to all Nemesis plots. This is retroactive, so nothing else will ever be revealed as another Nemesis plot.

Parallel earths are a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there, or have three issues in a row (so far) devoted to them. I would also like it very much if the CoH multiverse's cosmology were straightened out, a chart was drawn up, and anybody who wanted to write anything regarding alternate dimensions, parallel universes, other planes of existence, anything that isn't on this physical earth that we know exists in the real world had to memorize said chart, which clearly spells out what falls into what category, and assume all NPCs had also memorized the chart. Then post the chart on the official website, so players can see it and find all the places you've deviated from the chart. You can even put it up as an in-character presentation from the Dark Watcher or Steven Sheridan or somebody.

It is also revealed that piercing the dimensional barrier was not a Nemesis plot after all.

The signature characters can stand around giving out task forces until the end of time for all I care. Maelstrom can get killed off because I'm sick of fighting him with his Martial Arts secondary that players want but can't have.

Not entirely sure what I'd do about the whole Ouroboros thing. I don't consider "nuke from orbit" to be an option (usually. I make exceptions for things such as the Dr Q and Synapse TFs, and that morality mission with Malta in Striga), especially for something that is such a huge QoL improvement. We don't even know that they're really from the future. We don't even know that we're actually time-traveling. It could be a giant AE building for all we know, since nothing we do in the past alters the present (yeah yeah, if it altered the present we'd be altered too so we wouldn't know the present had been altered but then we wouldn't have to go back so...that's why time travel never turns out well.) So since we have no reason to trust them, and their leader is a big liar pretending to be another person who can't be trusted, we can't go trusting our newfound potentially infinite power to them, now can we?


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So after years we found a cure for the lost. What about a cure for the DE? I want to save Terra. Another thing that really bugs me, is that there is no lower level human component to the DE. We just start fighting giant shrubbery and moving rocks. I would love to see more of a build up to what they have become. Hamidon was human once and the Terra arc talks about the Fauna First people helping the DE.


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Originally Posted by Venture View Post
My fixes would likely become a matter of some discussion, since I would do things like utterly destroy Ouroboros and time travel in general, kill off Nemesis, eliminate all parallel Earths (not to be confused with alternate words, i.e. Praetoria is a parallel of City's Earth, Narnia would be an alternate world; I would reclassify the Rikti homeworld as an alternate world) and probably Kill Off For Real all or most of the signature characters.
Well, if that's what you want, all you need is a really good argument.


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Another thing that really bugs me, is that there is no lower level human component to the DE.
One of the things I wanted to do with AE, which I shelved because almost none of what I needed was possible, was a replacement for the Positron TF using the DE as the main threat (because the "interview" with him in the Top Cow comics said they were his main concern). It would have opened with human eco-terrorists attacking the Steel Canyon university and used DE creatures as Elite Bosses in the last two missions, culminating with an AV-strength Devoured.

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Well, if that's what you want, all you need is a really good argument.
Actually I don't, because this isn't something you can argue about. It's a question of aesthetics.


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Ok some storylines I want to be revisited/added onto include:

- Whatever happened to the missing hero taskforce/army that attacked Shiva and were never seen again? Could turn into a kind of recover hero X kind of storyline

-General Hammond. That guy is like a bucket of untapped stories

Brigadier General Marlon Hammond is the man in charge of the allied expeditionary force exploring the dimension dubbed 'The Shadow Shard'. From his early years in the SAS when he battled subterranean reptile men to his coordination of the British defenses against an invasion of alien mutant cyborgs, General Hammond has displayed an uncanny ability to handle the strange and unknown on numerous occasions. This made him a natural choice to command this expedition.
REPTILE MEN! ALIEN MUTANT CYBORGS?! come on tell me you don't see that!

- Like the others, more on Upstart and The Hellion's leader in the zig. Maybe a TF that shows Upstart's freaks and Tempter's Hellion horde coming into a conflict and breaking out?

-Rikti and the Battalion. we need to take both of them down!

-Paula Dempsey's family history poses some interesting stories

Paula Dempsey moved to Paragon City as a child, when her parents were killed by an invading space armada in the late 60's. She grew up with her grandfather, a famous mechanic who did a lot more than just fix cars. Paula's grandfather maintained the fabulous weapons and equipment used by a hero named Gauge Steele, and Paula grew up hearing stories of their adventures. With a role model like that, there was never any question as to where her career path lay. Today, she not only fixes things, she invents them. She's got a wealth of contacts and has been an excellent resource for new heroes for over a decade.

Small stories like these would make things more interesting. I mean Malta, Nemesis, Crey, Arachnos, Council, Preatorians, 5th Column. Yeah these baddies are scary but they seem a bit plain. I want fantastic robot mutants who want to take over the world or weird alien conquerors that the rikti are afraid of.


 

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I understand that development resources is limited, and this will, in all likelihood, never happen. But this is my wishlist, as far as content is concerned:

* A massive revamping of the legacy CoH i0/i1 storylines. Seriously, compare it to the arcs in CoV, much less Praetoria, and it's laughably bad. Those arcs need more memorable contacts (get rid of the "each origin has its own set of contacts who all look the same and provide the same missions anyway" clutter), more variety in the missions instead of "click this" or "kill all enemies," and less pointless zone-hopping.

* While we're revamping the i0/i1 storylines, have the lv1-20 stories be morality choices where your character flip between hero/vigilante (similar to the Loyalist/Resistance choices in Praetoria). Also do the same with the lv1-20 CoV stories (villain/rogue).

* Along with the above, the "Surviving Six" TFs need Positron-type revamps. Right now they're just a series of kill-alls, kill-bosses, or click-glowies, usually with the same enemy group throughout, on dull maps. Although there are far fewer CoV SFs, they easily outshine the non-Positron, "Surviving Six" TFs and the Shard TFs.

* CoH has quite a few "dead" zones. Boomtown, Terra Volta, Dark Astoria, Crey's Folly, Eden, and the Shadow Shard all come to mind. All of those zones need a Faultline-like revamp. I'd start with DA, CF, and Eden because there's a significant lack of content in the Lv30-40 range.

* Over at CoV ... it needs one thing that CoH has -- more paths to choose from. The arcs in CoV are generally better than CoH, but there's only one path throughout the game. I'd love to see a completely new set of arcs, from Lv1-40, throughout the Rogue Isles. There are some aspects that were barely touched upon (the Luddities come to mind) that could contribute themselves to new, non-Arachnos storylines. A few new zones like Hollows/Faultline/Striga/Croatoa, with zone-specific storylines and SFs, for CoV wouldn't hurt either.

* CoV's single biggest hole? The lack of a Lv30-35 Strike Force. Fill it. Seriously, it's been, what, 6 years now? I'm shocked this hasn't been addressed yet, and seems unlikely to be addressed any time soon.

* The Shadow Shard. I know this will take up a lot of dev time and resources, but make this co-op, revamp the four zones so that they're not so bleeding huge and doesn't require fly to get around, add story arcs for each zone, rework the TFs (especially DrQ) and give each zone its own TF. Bonus? Add in the end-game incarnate trails to the Shadow Shard and show the other aspects of Rularuu that we haven't seen yet. The end-game shouldn't be all Praetoria, all the time.

Now, I realize that the above list is pretty much unrealistic, espeically considering the devs' limited time and resources, and the fact that my "wish list" won't bring in the big bucks like the end-game stuff will. But it'd make CoH a much more streamlined game, and make the transtition between the "new shiny" stuff such as Praetoria and the original CoH game look much less jarring. Ah, one can always dream.


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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
It does make sense that the Freaks redside would be dumber, since Arachnos isn't big on education. The general dumbing-down of the group also makes sense; they may have started as disillusioned yuppies, but their schtick would attract quite a few people who understand maybe two words out of "The fetishization of material goods is sickening," but DUDE! YOU HAVE A METAL ARM! I WANT ONE!! The Sid Viciouses, as it were. But it would be nice to see some smarter freaks sometimes, and I don't mean just guys like "Teh L34rn3r3r." Evil isn't always dumb, even the smashy smashy kind.

I also think we need a few clear reminders that they are hurting people. As in, body bags. Or at least some terrified hostages we can save.
I don't think dumbing down the Freakshow is what has done the most harm to them as a faction. It's turning them into comic relief goofiness that has completely destroyed the faction, in my opinion. The Freaklimpis was interesting, because it shows how a violent, murderous gang could sew so much destruction just for kicks and giggles. But "them bombs gonna blow stuff up" and "Just weld a rocket to my back!" and the Freakshow holding a pawn shop and all the other borderline cartoony humour is really hurting them.

I completely agree with Eva - we need to return the Freakshow more to their roots - violent, dangerous murderers who should be feared, not adored like they're cute plushy toys. The Freakshow murder people. The Freakshow destroy lives. The Freakshow kidnap and torture people. They are monsters, as a point of fact. Yes, they're still human, but they are about as unrepentant bad guys as they come. We need to remember them.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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Originally Posted by Citizen_Razor View Post
* A massive revamping of the legacy CoH i0/i1 storylines. Seriously, compare it to the arcs in CoV, much less Praetoria, and it's laughably bad. Those arcs need more memorable contacts (get rid of the "each origin has its own set of contacts who all look the same and provide the same missions anyway" clutter), more variety in the missions instead of "click this" or "kill all enemies," and less pointless zone-hopping.
I disagree. CoV has markedly inferior writing to the original Launch content, for the simple fact that it assumes too much. It assumes we want to be Arachnos fanboys, it assumes we're afraid of the Arachnos patrons, it assumes we want money, and the majority of missions consist of mercenary work, doing menial, meaningless tasks that lead to no storyline progression and no revelation, just so we van get "paid." It's much easier to be your own hero in City of Heroes when contacts just offer you leads you could choose to follow. Not so easy to be your own villain in City of Villains, since the storyline does not give us opportunities to shine, it gives us jobs to pull.

Praetoria is actually even WORSE in this regard. The entirety of the story line - every single mission - sees the player as subservient to either the Resistance or the Loyalists. Every "moral" choice is a choice of faction loyalty in practice, a choice between whose faction you want to be a lackey of. That world is intentionally designed to rob you of any other choice BUT to belong, even though these choices could easily have been written for and missions designed for them.

Not to mention the seriously diminishing quality of writing over the years. Montague Castanella's dialogue is horrible, whole Darryn Wayde's is only about passible. Neither storyline is a story LINE, so much as an unrelated sequence of events that have no ultimate meaning. And the content that came after them hasn't been much better, especially Roy Cooling's god damn arc. Tina's arc barely makes sense, and Maria's new arc is only better than the original because the original was utter garbage. Praetoria does have a sprinkling of truly powerful arcs, I will admit, but the whole narrative framework is so hamhanded that it makes me disinclined to make my own characters in it, when I can't follow MY OWN story through such a railroading plot.

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The old Launch content can indeed do with a facelift. Somewhat. But I DO NOT WANT gimmick mission after gimmick mission after gimmick mission. The entire time I play through Praetoria, I'm praying to God to "Please let me have at least one simple mission!" Please let me have at least one mission that I don't have to be on my toes on, expecting ambushes, or a sudden timer, or some other *** backwards mechanic that's going to irritate me the third time through. Let me just kill stuff every now and then.

The occasional complex, unique mission is great. I love that. Making EVERY mission complex and unique? No. Not only is this unnecessary, it's actually irritating to the point of anger. Save the gimmicks for the special occasion, but let me run most of my missions in peace, damn it!


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.