Storylines - sidelined?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-02-24 06:29 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I think someone stated earlier that they would like to see some of the old content updated with the new mechanics, if not, I'm saying it now.
Yellowboxed NPCs
Psychic/Com piece text boxes
Zowies (lol, 'updated Patrol Missions')
Fights that don't always have to end in the 'zero-health' fashion (ie. Trapdoor, Hero 1 in the Ramiel arcs)
Environmental hazards (a la Trapdoor mish (lava); Leonard's mish (burning buildings (yeah, I know Mayhem mishes had them prior)))
Objectives that affect NPCs outside of just killing them (like was shown in arcs where 'flipping a switch' could shut down Clockwork, red-box previously yellow-boxed NPCs or even make characters (like Ajax) lose certain abilities.
And I'm not saying to add them haphazardly; I'm suggesting that bit by bit, the old content gets looked over and any adjustments that would be a natural fit get put in... if nothing fits, then it stays as is.
***And please try to get these same mechanics into the AE.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Zone PVP Storylines:
I firmly believe that zone PvP and Arena PvP are two different animals and should be treated as such. PvP Zones are still zones when it comes down to it and all zones (this includes Hazard Zones and other neglected blue-side zones) should have enough PvE content (and contacts) to legitimize their existence.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Not to be any more argumentative than I've already been, 'cause I don't want you to get the wrong idea, but this thread should really stick to what storylines should be picked up again, not quite what goes in them.|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
I think someone stated earlier that they would like to see some of the old content updated with the new mechanics, if not, I'm saying it now.
Yellowboxed NPCs Psychic/Com piece text boxes Zowies (lol, 'updated Patrol Missions') Fights that don't always have to end in the 'zero-health' fashion (ie. Trapdoor, Hero 1 in the Ramiel arcs) Environmental hazards (a la Trapdoor mish (lava); Leonard's mish (burning buildings (yeah, I know Mayhem mishes had them prior))) Objectives that affect NPCs outside of just killing them (like was shown in arcs where 'flipping a switch' could shut down Clockwork, red-box previously yellow-boxed NPCs or even make characters (like Ajax) lose certain abilities. And I'm not saying to add them haphazardly; I'm suggesting that bit by bit, the old content gets looked over and any adjustments that would be a natural fit get put in... if nothing fits, then it stays as is. ***And please try to get these same mechanics into the AE. |
Just sayin' so others don't start doing the same.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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This I'd have to argue against. PVP zones legitimize their existence by being available for PVP and having their own objectives (Shivan minigame, zone control and the like.) I think some of those need to be looked over again, yes, but I *don't* agree that there needs to be PVE story arcs and the like fit in there - barring having a separate copy of the zone to do so (which I believe I mentioned elsewhere) that's PVE-centric. |
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Zone PVP Storylines:
I firmly believe that zone PvP and Arena PvP are two different animals and should be treated as such. PvP Zones are still zones when it comes down to it and all zones (this includes Hazard Zones and other neglected blue-side zones) should have enough PvE content (and contacts) to legitimize their existence. |
There's already enough contention when people "just" want what they try to paint as "PVE rewards" and end up having other players attack them. Now imagine "I couldn't finish the storyarc and failed the timed mission because of PVPers!" No. No thanks.
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From what I gather, they're currently empty enough to where that shouldn't happen. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
This I'd have to argue against. PVP zones legitimize their existence by being available for PVP and having their own objectives (Shivan minigame, zone control and the like.) I think some of those need to be looked over again, yes, but I *don't* agree that there needs to be PVE story arcs and the like fit in there - barring having a separate copy of the zone to do so (which I believe I mentioned elsewhere) that's PVE-centric.
There's already enough contention when people "just" want what they try to paint as "PVE rewards" and end up having other players attack them. Now imagine "I couldn't finish the storyarc and failed the timed mission because of PVPers!" No. No thanks. |
Besides, it's not like any added content would be any different from the hybrid content that is already there or that it couldn't be wrapped into the overlying/underlying themes of those zones.These are actually 'hybrid' zones which lean more to PvE offerings to begin with (as opposed to Arena PvP; which is just pure PvP) and it should play into its PvE strength rather than be the Arena's clone. And the rewards there are PvE rewards gotten by the PvE playstyle (except the recent addition of PvP IO Sets).
And it wouldn't have to be critical content... [but if a player can't finish an instanced because of what's happening outside of it...]
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Sorry, this kind of implementation goes hand in hand with how the story is being [can be] told and is more relevant than the recent 'debate and criticism' over moral and plot aesthetics. [IMO]
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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
Not to be any more argumentative than I've already been, 'cause I don't want you to get the wrong idea, but this thread should really stick to what storylines should be picked up again, not quite what goes in them.
Just sayin' so others don't start doing the same. |
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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More to the problem, putting more PvE content in PvP zones will continue to depurpose them from being PVP zones. Adding more PvE content there would simply provide more ammunition to removing the pvp aspects of those zones. Especially as you state, pvp exposure is so limited.|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
From what I gather, they're currently empty enough to where that shouldn't happen.
Besides, it's not like any added content would be any different from the hybrid content that is already there or that it couldn't be wrapped into the overlying/underlying themes of those zones.These are actually 'hybrid' zones which lean more to PvE offerings to begin with (as opposed to Arena PvP; which is just pure PvP) and it should play into its PvE strength rather than be the Arena's clone. And the rewards there are PvE rewards gotten by the PvE playstyle (except the recent addition of PvP IO Sets). And it wouldn't have to be critical content... [but if a player can't finish an instanced because of what's happening outside of it...] |
While I [personally] wouldn't be against killing off the pvp-zones [I don't really pvp], if that course is taken, it should be done completely. And frankly, I respect and like the idea of the pvp climate at least existing for those who do enjoy it [or on the premise of finally fixing it].
Let's Dance!
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But those two things go together - the new tech that the game has now is an important part of any discussion about updating older content.|
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
this thread should really stick to what storylines should be picked up again, not quite what goes in them.
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The way the clone arcs, the Roy Cooling arc and the entire 1-20 Praetorian experience have been created opens up so many new ways to tell the stories in the older content.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I want to chime in on saying that it does feel like the writers no longer take themselves seriously. I know the obvious argument - how can you take comic book storylines seriously? But that's not true. You CAN write fantastical stories and still write them as legitimate fiction, as some of the greater comic book writers in the past have done. This is, in fact, how the original writers of the game treated it once upon a time - as serious fiction.
These days... I don't know. It feels like slapstick and laugh tracks. Corny, zany, campy stories without much of a semblance at a serious plot, cheap laughs instead of good writing, jokes instead of plot points... This does not make for a universe I can care about, because very little seems to matter. |
Praetoria is a setting that's drips with misery and suffering from just about every mission, along with an overall atmosphere of relentlessly bleak desperation - we need the occasional Captain Castillo to balance things out.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
What's up with labeling parallel worlds/clones "Adam West Batman stuff?" Aren't clones and parallel universes standard comic book fare? Wait? They are? Well then shut up. Last I checked, this was a comic book-influenced game, thus standard comic book tropes belong in this game.
Come to think of it, the Freakshow. Do we ever defeat them, or at least get some kind of finale? I know the infamous Dreck mission in the parallel dimension, but is that it? There's also the Sister Psyche TF, of course, but that's an introduction, mostly.
Also, concerning Nemesis, I too think he's a bit overexposed. He's supposed to be Nemesis. Lord Nemesis to be exact. Whenever he or his troops show up, it's supposed to be big. Like the end of the RWZ arcs. "You may applaud my audacity." That's good Nemesis. I wish we had less smalltime Nemesis plots, and more giant plots. Okay, bonus points for the mind control railways, but that's a bit cartoony, even for him. Not everything should be a Nemesis plot, but when it turns out to be, it should be major.
Actually, if we're going to do something clever, have the Mysterious Letter Writer send us on one final mending in time: The moment where Nemesis becomes Silos. I want to see what made Nemesis become the master of time travel. It will tie into the Coming Storm, of course.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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If there were PvE content in the PvP zones, they wouldn't be empty for long. Those that enjoy going after people trying to play through an arc would flock to the zones.
| From what I gather, they're currently empty enough to where that shouldn't happen. |
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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Granted, but I'm not sure if this thread is about updating old content, either. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But those two things go together - the new tech that the game has now is an important part of any discussion about updating older content.
The way the clone arcs, the Roy Cooling arc and the entire 1-20 Praetorian experience have been created opens up so many new ways to tell the stories in the older content. |
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Originally Posted by Scythus
What's up with labeling parallel worlds/clones "Adam West Batman stuff?" Aren't clones and parallel universes standard comic book fare? Wait? They are? Well then shut up. Last I checked, this was a comic book-influenced game, thus standard comic book tropes belong in this game.
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61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
Yeah, but Adam West's Batman was pure camp which, by labeling them as such, implies that the new arcs are "silly." The new arcs don't particularly strike me as silly. They're just the sort of stuff I'd expect to read in any comic book, whether serious or silly. There's been so many clones and parallel worlds in comics, it's hard to swing a Spider-Man without hitting a clone arc.
(See what I did there?)
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Or perhaps your character and his/her contact is being forced to act like an idiot so the devs don't have to give you, the player, sufficient information to figure it out.|
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
I guess my point is that if one person realizes what's coming up in a plot, it doesn't mean that everyone else will too. Or, perhaps I just have less plothole-detection than a six year old.
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| Could it have been done better? Maybe? As previously mentioned in this thread, the players have (and still do) let the developers know when the new content doesn't jive with the older canon content, and in the response the developers have made (and still make) some efforts to patch up the plot holes as best they can while not tearing apart what's already been made too much. I mean, jeez, they even kicked Incarnate stuff back an entire friggin' issue because the players said that becoming an Incarnate wasn't nearly as epic as they'd thought it'd be. |
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| I'm not sure if the aforementioned "campy" stuff was made just to be there, though; I mean, if you're planning something big for the future, why not make the effort to create stuff that might actually be capable of supporting it? Take a look here: |
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| Okay, so many of us agree that the Tip 'plot' is pretty scatterbrained. It's not the only thing going on here, and I am pretty sure the "zany" stopped when players started being given the option to blow up senators, nuke a civilian population, deny clean water for innocent citizens for an extended period, murder potential allies in exchange for brownie points, break up and ruin families, and condemn children to slavery and brainwashing...or not, all in an attempt to topple a fascist, false-utopian state or support it. |
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Sorry, this kind of implementation goes hand in hand with how the story is being [can be] told and is more relevant than the recent 'debate and criticism' over moral and plot aesthetics. [IMO]
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I don't think it should be a debate anyway. Nobody has yet explained to me why we can't have a solid story with engaging, fun gameplay.
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| Praetoria is a setting that's drips with misery and suffering from just about every mission, along with an overall atmosphere of relentlessly bleak desperation - we need the occasional Captain Castillo to balance things out. |
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Originally Posted by Scythus
What's up with labeling parallel worlds/clones "Adam West Batman stuff?" Aren't clones and parallel universes standard comic book fare? Wait? They are? Well then shut up. Last I checked, this was a comic book-influenced game, thus standard comic book tropes belong in this game.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Yeah, but Adam West's Batman was pure camp which, by labeling them as such, implies that the new arcs are "silly." The new arcs don't particularly strike me as silly. They're just the sort of stuff I'd expect to read in any comic book, whether serious or silly. There's been so many clones and parallel worlds in comics, it's hard to swing a Spider-Man without hitting a clone arc.
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Besides, isn't the clone saga considered one of the worst Spider-Man storylines ever?
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
If there were PvE content in the PvP zones, they wouldn't be empty for long. Those that enjoy going after people trying to play through an arc would flock to the zones.
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That's the intent...
...and the end result would be no different than currently trying to do the buff/debuff PvE missions, gathering ore, acquiring missiles or capturing pillboxes [within an adequately populated zone].
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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That's missing the point; I was presenting the commonality of clones in comic books. And don't clones in comic books occasionally have the memories of the original? I seem to recall Bizarro, despite being a clone (and an imperfect one at that), easily thought he was Superman right off the bat. And in the Spidey clone saga, there was confusion over who the real Peter Parker really was because of this fact. Well, that solves Frank Castle and Steven Strange, don't it?|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Spider-Man and Wolverine can be cloned because their powers come from being different on a genetic level. Iron Man can't be cloned, unless you also have the facilities to build a multi-billion dollar suit of power armor. The Punisher can't be cloned unless you have years to train him, can somehow recreate the Vietnam War, give him a family and have them killed. Doctor Strange can't be cloned unless....I admit I'm not too familiar with his origin but I'm guessing you'd have to know a lot of magic. Since we can create Iron Man, The Punisher or Doctor Strange, as well as Spider-Man and Wolverine, any story we play through has to be applicable to them too.
Besides, isn't the clone saga considered one of the worst Spider-Man storylines ever? |
From what I recall, the methods that Crey use on the Paragon Protectors, "inserting extra genetic material" to familiarize themselves with their powers is rather ambiguous and can easily be explained as the "memory genes" as it were. It's comic book science, for crying out loud. A robot is easy to build a copy of if you have the schematics, and I presume the same goes for high tech armor like Iron Man's. We did get Iron Monger, y'know.
Someone mentioned earlier that Nemesis' automatons don't have powers to replicate the original's. Where is this stated? I seem to recall that a whole plot involved around a phony Freedom Phalanx invading the Rikti homeworld implies the precise opposite of that assertion.
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Solid story only goes so far in a game of this format... | Nobody has yet explained to me why we can't have a solid story with engaging, fun gameplay. |
1. It's a comic book game (expect b.s. to be shoveled at you in grand amounts); 75%+ of the originating industry is mediocre storytelling and average art... if you're expecting better out of a game based on this industry then you're just setting yourself up for failure.
2. It's an MMO; thousands of people play this game for a myriad of reasons and I'm sure that the driving reason isn't the amazing stories (AE (and PLing in general) proved this).
3. This isn't a complex game... you mash buttons; you kill stuff. About the most complicated decisions most players will come across in this game is coming up with their costume (and slotting their powers). And that's what it boils down to; coming up with a constant stream of new stuff for people to mash their buttons at. That's where the re-playability lies. The story are the brief bits in between the button mashing that people tend to quit reading after the second or third time around.
4. When the game becomes more complex... then people may actually have to start paying attention to more than [just] killing stuff and that is when good storytelling quits falling through the cracks and becomes more viable. Hence my suggestion for reworking any new game mechanics that they come up with into established content (even something as simple as the in-mission text used in the Praetorian missions can be used to flesh out current content).
[5. As far as 'pigeonholing' players into prescribed thoughts, behaviors, motivations, etc... that's a (gaming) industry-wide commonality. A majority of video games determine your story for you at some point in the game. Like I said before... you don't drive the story, the story drives you]
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Ok, I'll give you that Crey can replicate the original's memories.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
From what I recall, the methods that Crey use on the Paragon Protectors, "inserting extra genetic material" to familiarize themselves with their powers is rather ambiguous and can easily be explained as the "memory genes" as it were. It's comic book science, for crying out loud. A robot is easy to build a copy of if you have the schematics, and I presume the same goes for high tech armor like Iron Man's. We did get Iron Monger, y'know.
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However, we don't break into an industrial manufacturing facility in Dean and Leonard's arcs. We break into a cloning facility, where, incidentally, we run into defective clones with the wrong powers.
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| Someone mentioned earlier that Nemesis' automatons don't have powers to replicate the original's. Where is this stated? I seem to recall that a whole plot involved around a phony Freedom Phalanx invading the Rikti homeworld implies the precise opposite of that assertion. |
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Solid story only goes so far in a game of this format...
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| 1. It's a comic book game (expect b.s. to be shoveled at you in grand amounts); 75%+ of the originating industry is mediocre storytelling and average art... if you're expecting better out of a game based on this industry then you're just setting yourself up for failure. |
Or, you know, base your game on the GOOD parts of comic books...since those are the parts people like and remember fondly instead of trying to forget and pretend they didn't happen.
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| 2. It's an MMO; thousands of people play this game for a myriad of reasons and I'm sure that the driving reason isn't the amazing stories (AE (and PLing in general) proved this). |
Or even better, let's remove the bio screen, and the costume creator, and encourage everyone to name themselves InvulTank33 and xXxFarmFireKinxXx. It's all needless fluff that detracts from the real game of mindlessly punching bad guys in the face.
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| 3. This isn't a complex game... you mash buttons; you kill stuff. About the most complicated decisions most players will come across in this game is coming up with their costume (and slotting their powers). And that's what it boils down to; coming up with a constant stream of new stuff for people to mash their buttons at. That's where the re-playability lies. The story are the brief bits in between the button mashing that people tend to quit reading after the second or third time around. |
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| 4. When the game becomes more complex... then people may actually have to start paying attention to more than [just] killing stuff and that is when good storytelling quits falling through the cracks and becomes more viable. Hence my suggestion for reworking any new game mechanics that they come up with into established content (even something as simple as the in-mission text used in the Praetorian missions can be used to flesh out current content). |
I also like how you assume that people who click past everything will actually pay attention to new game mechanics instead of clicking past them like they usually do. If the text contains important gameplay hints they'll click past it then ask in broadcast for someone to explain what to do. People who don't want to read won't. People who do want to read don't have to be forced, cajoled, or in any other way encouraged to pay attention, besides giving them something worth paying attention to.
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| [5. As far as 'pigeonholing' players into prescribed thoughts, behaviors, motivations, etc... that's a (gaming) industry-wide commonality. A majority of video games determine your story for you at some point in the game. Like I said before... you don't drive the story, the story drives you] |
Let me repeat this one more time: Just because other people produce crap doesn't mean you should aspire to produce crap, or shrug off the mediocre as "good enough" because at least it's better than the other guy's crap.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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/golfclap|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
If there were PvE content in the PvP zones, they wouldn't be empty for long. Those that enjoy going after people trying to play through an arc would flock to the zones.
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Those of us who *like* (or liked, given the changes) PVP gameplay in the zones want people there who are interested in PVPing. Not getting whined at when someone gets attacked.
Throwing PVE contacts, arcs, etc. in the live PVP zones goes against that. Are there some people who like going after people who don't want to fight? Sure. But if you want to paint "PVPers" as that, I'll be *more* than happy to turn around and point out the number of twits in PVE who "like" keeping lowbies from being able to street sweep, or leaving level 50 holiday mobs in Atlas, or training mobs or interfering with costume contests or any of the myriad *other* forms of douchebaggery that gets done on a regular basis in the rest of the game - without letting you turn around and give the jerk a total focus in the face for doing so.
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Who is "we?"|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
It still isn't, and now we're being railroaded.
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| Players demanded an "epic story" but the devs didn't seem up to the task, so they used a gimmick to "make us feel powerful" (it didn't work) |
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| gave us every reason to NOT affiliate ourselves with the Well then forced us to affiliate ourselves with the Well anyway. In an effort to make the missions "interesting" they made them look haphazard. |
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| They happened to pick up one that is inherently cheesy (evil-goatee alternate universe; no matter how you dress it up with shades of grey it's still an evil-goatee alternate universe.) and one that is inextricably tied to signature NPCs that most players hate and resent for constantly reminding us that we're just supporting characters in our own story. |
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| It isn't zany, but it isn't particularly important either. If it mattered, we wouldn't be sent to Primal Earth, and Cole's invasion wouldn't be happening as planned 30 levels later. |
You really want to be restricted from content due to the actions of other players?
People used to howl about how they couldn't get Shivans or Warburg nukes.
People throw tantrums about the market, which has little if anything to do with the plot.
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| Nobody has yet explained to me why we can't have a solid story with engaging, fun gameplay. |
No one's gonna do that. Nobody believes that.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
From what I recall, the methods that Crey use on the Paragon Protectors, "inserting extra genetic material" to familiarize themselves with their powers is rather ambiguous and can easily be explained as the "memory genes" as it were.
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You can stretch real-world science only so far with comic-book science. Humans don't have genetic memory. They ain't Go'a'ulds [sp]. Crey has some kinda brain-mapping technology, don't they?
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Solid story only goes so far in a game of this format...
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Well, sure. Solid stories won't hold up a game alone unless they're really really really good. That's not an excuse to write a poor story, though, and I don't think the writers are trying to do that.
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| 1. It's a comic book game (expect b.s. to be shoveled at you in grand amounts); 75%+ of the originating industry is mediocre storytelling and average art... if you're expecting better out of a game based on this industry then you're just setting yourself up for failure. |
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| 2. It's an MMO; thousands of people play this game for a myriad of reasons and I'm sure that the driving reason isn't the amazing stories (AE (and PLing in general) proved this). |
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| The story are the brief bits in between the button mashing that people tend to quit reading after the second or third time around. |
(Sure would be nice if I didn't have to open my mission tab to keep track of the plot on TFs.)
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| [5. As far as 'pigeonholing' players into prescribed thoughts, behaviors, motivations, etc... that's a (gaming) industry-wide commonality. A majority of video games determine your story for you at some point in the game. Like I said before... you don't drive the story, the story drives you] |
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| I prefer to think of them as fancy automatons that are difficult and expensive to build, which explains both why he kept them after they'd outlived their usefulness and why Nemesis doesn't use automatons to replace powered people. |
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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Then there's the mission with recruiting Crey scientists....|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Ok, I'll give you that Crey can replicate the original's memories.
However, we don't break into an industrial manufacturing facility in Dean and Leonard's arcs. We break into a cloning facility, where, incidentally, we run into defective clones with the wrong powers. |
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| I prefer to think of them as fancy automatons that are difficult and expensive to build, which explains both why he kept them after they'd outlived their usefulness and why Nemesis doesn't use automatons to replace powered people. Because if he can churn out powered automatons on some kind of steam-powered assembly line that opens up whole new possibilities for Nemesis Plots, and I. Am. Sick. Of. Nemesis. Plots. |
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Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
You can stretch real-world science only so far with comic-book science. Humans don't have genetic memory. They ain't Go'a'ulds [sp]. Crey has some kinda brain-mapping technology, don't they?
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Just because Marvel and DC hit themselves in the head with hammers doesn't mean Paragon has to.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Yet I see the same sort of thing in actual comic books. Really, a lot of actual science gets ignored and handwaved in comics, or have you not ever read a comic book?
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| We have people getting hit by gamma rays and turning into big green monsters because of it. It's just the nature of the genre. You might as well ask 1930s pulp stories to not involve ancient temples with magical relics. |
"Some people get blasted by gamma ray bursts and die horribly, but others thrive and gain super powers."
"Some ancient temples contain magical relics forgotten by time."
"The human genetic code, in its natural state, contains molecules that record and store your living memories."
The first two statements I can get by and enjoy with guilty pleasure, but the third one is really stretching it too far even for me. I equate it with the idea of more or less than 79 protons in a gold nucleus, or closer to superhero antics, with Tony Stark creating a NEW ELEMENT in the second Iron Man movie.
I liked it, by the way.
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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Great, then you'll just love Issue 21: Realism. In it, everyone loses their powersets and all they can do in it is run and punch and kick stuff.|
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
Just because Marvel and DC hit themselves in the head with hammers doesn't mean Paragon has to.
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Apples and oranges. "Some people get blasted by gamma ray bursts and die horribly, but others thrive and gain super powers." "Some ancient temples contain magical relics forgotten by time." "The human genetic code, in its natural state, contains molecules that record and store your living memories." |
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"We" is our characters. Those people we so lovingly crafted and assigned backstories and motivations and personalities to who are all now being reduced to playing second-fiddle to an overarching storyline in order to progress. It's like we all had our own comic book, but now it's being put on hold indefinitely for the huge company-wide crossover. It's not like the second Rikti War, where all our individual books acknowledged the major event and told how we reacted to it, this crossover is all there is.|
Originally Posted by TheDeepBlue
Who is "we?"
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| Haphazard? The plot demonstrated the risk trying to gain power from the Well and the Well entity and then revealed a loophole. I thought it was kind of intriguing. |
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| Cheap, eh? Well, perhaps. Even so, I'm not sure how you can hold it against the developers for making the effort to turn it into something more interesting than straight "My Evil Twin!(TM)", or just leaving that particular plot thread dangling as mentioned in the OP for who knows how much longer. I've seen posts on General wondering if we'd ever get to deal with Praetoria in a more involved fashion for years, and considering that we had Praetorian Earth before the Shadow Shard or pretty much everything else in the game, I'm not suprised that it was revisited first. I'm even less suprised since, as I said earlier, it might give someone a better perspective on the power of Incarnates and the Well, which ties into content to come. |
Yes, it ties into Incarnates, but only because Praetoria is run by evil Statesman. You truly want player characters to access godlike power that might turn them evil, megalomaniacal and insane? Tie it into some of the established godlike entities that players actually want to know more about, like Mot and Lughebu and Rularuu. Don't tie it into boring Mary Sues and their magical Well of New Powers as the Plot Demands.
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| You really want to be restricted from content due to the actions of other players? |
I think part of the problem too is that with all the focus being on Praetoria the storyline is being advanced too fast. The status quo is changing before it has a chance to become status quo.
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| You can stretch real-world science only so far with comic-book science. Humans don't have genetic memory. They ain't Go'a'ulds [sp]. Crey has some kinda brain-mapping technology, don't they? |
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| Perhaps. But it's very possible that they'll read it at least once. You don't think the writers would try to make that read count? |
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| (Sure would be nice if I didn't have to open my mission tab to keep track of the plot on TFs.) |
The in-mission dialogue and, as much as I hate to admit it, cutscenes, are somewhat useful for this, since everyone can see it.
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| Also, don't forget that the dude never throws stuff away. Not documents, at least. Guess that shows what happens when you won't do a total conversion to digital storage...but when villains can hack into a Fake Nemesis memory cartridge stop dead one of your plots...well, I guess Brass Bolts has at least a little justification... |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I'd like to see the moonbase.
We have known for a long time that there are placeholder textures in the games .pigg files and it used to be a pretty hot subject but it got kinda lost around the time of city of villains release.
What about the airport? There are maps of paragon city with an airport located on it.
What about the rocket pats, construction is on the way in port oakes?
What about the building that is being build in the northeastern part of Steel Canyon?