Favorite support set to team with?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-02-13 18:53 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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You forgot Thermal, same regen debuff values than benumb and LR
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Originally Posted by Exxar
Cold, Dark, Rad or Traps. All are primarily debuffers and still have some kind of buffs, but what's more important, all of them have what I consider the most important debuff of all - shutting down the regen of AVs.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
My vote: Cold, Traps, Rad and Thermal.
Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
I like most of them, but which is my favorite depends on what character I'm on, and what the team needs most. There's a few that I'm not too fond of though. Trick arrow, because it is just meh. Cold domination, because while it's awesome, I don't like the ice-cube shields covering up my costume. Any of my softcapped characters find bubblers useless.
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Wow, and I thought my 120% record was good. You using Power Boost or similar? Of course, if it's just me doing the Defense Buff thing, I hit an even 48% buff now. But Maneuvers has seen a bit of a resurgence since Stamina became inherent.|
Originally Posted by PumBumbler
I like it when people tell me they have 145% defense.
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Personally, I like a good Radiation character, apart from my own Forcefielder, it's the set I like to team with the most. It's got a little of everything, and I never say no to an AM buff. End is good. More End is better. Plus, I get to use Force Bolt to knock enemies into the glowing area. I wish I'd get to see Fallout a bit more, though. Just for fun.
I also have a soft spot for a well-played Trick Archer. Mostly because they're so rare, and partly because I have a level 50 one.
Kinetics... I don't really care for that much. Sure, I get what they do and they're pretty awesome, but they're everywhere.
But I suppose what I really want from any support character, no matter the powerset, is someone who's not asleep at the keys and knows how to play it. All of the sets are pretty awesome, all in their own way, but you need to play to their strengths.
I do feel that I need to speak up on Forcefields a little here. Defense buff is it's main thing, but the bubbles have some handy sideeffects, too. But if you're also capped for Toxic Resist and immune to Endurance Drain in addition to being softcapped, then yeah, can't do much for you... unless you're fighting say... Battle Maiden, STF Lord Recluse, or anything else with a stupid high ToHit. Then I can re-cap you.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
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It seems I have. Probably shows how rare those are.
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Originally Posted by Razia
You forgot Thermal, same regen debuff values than benumb and LR
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It's Earthquake on a longer timer, isn't it?|
Originally Posted by dave_p
To play, or play with?
To play... well, really any of my "support" toons. Son/Son, Cold/Dark, Fire/Rad, Ill/Kin, Ice/Storm, Earth/TA all provide ridiculous amounts of buff/debuffs. If the measuring stick is how fast the end AV goes down, I'd prolly give a nod to my Cold 'fender, followed closely by my Fire/Rad, then Son/Son. To play with? If I'm melee, give me a Soldier. If I'm ranged, give me a tank. BTW, nice to see respect for Sonics on this thread, but no love for Liquefy? It's a damn "I Win" button!  |
*Edit : Oh wait, there's two patch effects it drops. One is basically Earthquake with better debuffs, the other seems to do damage and a hold, how does that work?
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Traps is a very odd set in terms of opinion. It's gone from lolTraps to overpoweredTraps and back and forth so many times that no one can keep track. It's one of those sets that doesn't seem to have a middle ground. |
Originally Posted by BurningChick
I think most players simply don't get what Traps does.
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Half want to buff it, the other half are afraid it will get nerfed.
Everyone loves my Empath/Psi defender (I don't, but they all do. Mainly because I play her solidly and I don't just buff tanks.)
I love FF. Love it! My Illusion/FF is great and when Im teaming I love FF players.
TA is good because there is always something a TA player can do.
For MMs...I love playing with poison players because the Debuffs are just that good.
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Really can't agree with TA being meh. It is a better controller secondary than a defender primary.... at least it is for me. Love my elec/TA.
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Originally Posted by firespray
I like most of them, but which is my favorite depends on what character I'm on, and what the team needs most. There's a few that I'm not too fond of though. Trick arrow, because it is just meh. Cold domination, because while it's awesome, I don't like the ice-cube shields covering up my costume. Any of my softcapped characters find bubblers useless.
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Originally Posted by Megajoule
We're being invaded. Again. This time, instead of aliens, zombies, or eyeballs with teeth, it's the marching band.
I have to say that there's only one support set that I really don't care for in some way or another. Everything from Force Fields to Empathy/Pain I like to some degree. I have a TA/A at 50 that I enjoy, even.
Except for Storm.
Now, I wouldn't say it's a bad set. It certainly has uses and good powers. In my personal experience, however, it is the most infuriating. I can respect a good knockback, that kind of thing can protect soft allies or even just make things easier overall. It seems, however, that most Storm players have no idea how to use it appropriately. They just knock everything all the heck over, even when there's no need for it. One of the very few TFs I've ever quit out of anger or frustration was a Synapse where a Storm character wouldn't stop knocking all the clockwork away from melee. Which just made them open up with more of their end-draining lighting. It drove me batty, I couldn't stand it. So storm gets my vote for least favorite.
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I've had the same experience with my Colds; I like Traps, I just think that for many "speed teams" it just is a bit slower than Cold for the same end result. And the vote for Kin assumes competence: I've been on teams where the Kin decided that only one person at a time should have Speed Boost, and Fulcrum Shift was a "last resort" sort of power. They're no help to the team at all.
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Originally Posted by BurningChick
Traps.
Here's a weird thing: I've done a bunch of ITFs over the years with various toons, including a lulzy expensive fire / fire dom, spines / WP scrapper, and different support toons (Dark, FF, and Kin), and my fastest times have all been with my Dark / Traps defender. I've done kill alls with my Traps / Dark that were faster than "speed" ITFs on my dom. I've been on some crazy bad teams that were simply not helped by my Kins or only marginally helped by my dom. But I've never, ever been on a failed TF with my trapper. I've never had a team dissolve because a mish was too hard with my trapper. I think most players simply don't get what Traps does. |
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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The only toon I've ever soloed an AV with was my thugs / traps (Woodsman). Zzzzzzzzzz ... it took a while, but I won. And it wasn't nearly half as interesting as I thought it'd be.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Traps is a very odd set in terms of opinion. It's gone from lolTraps to overpoweredTraps and back and forth so many times that no one can keep track. It's one of those sets that doesn't seem to have a middle ground.
Half want to buff it, the other half are afraid it will get nerfed. |
I also soloed Ballista w/o pets on her.
To me, Traps brings direct damage (you can pile in LOTS of damage procs), significant damage boosts (stacked Acid Mortars + the -resistance proc), protection (+def, mez protection, -ToHit, -damage, barf, hold), and some soft control (ST immob, ST slow, ST -recharge, AoE slow).
Traps gels with every team I've ever been on, but many people don't see the goodness because it doesn't provide +damage, +recovery, +recharge, and an overwhelming amount of +def. IME, some (de)buffs are valued far more by the playerbase than others, and if a set lacks those, than the set is lacking -- even if the set combines buffs and debuffs to a similar effect. And provides them in an easy to use package (no ST buffs to manage, no worrying about toggles dropping).
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I'd consider EQ with much better debuff numbers an "I Win" button. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
It's Earthquake on a longer timer, isn't it?
*Edit : Oh wait, there's two patch effects it drops. One is basically Earthquake with better debuffs, the other seems to do damage and a hold, how does that work? |
EQ offers (base) -10% def and to hit.
Liquefy offers (again base) -37.5% def and to hit.
That's a *lot* better, esp after you properly slot up. 56% to hit debuff? Yes please.
EQ has a higher KD chance, I think, but Liquefy does other things like minor hold (mag 2), tick damage, etc. They both have -jump, but Liquefy has -fly & -rech as well. So basically, Liquefy is kinda like EQ + RI + CC + a bit more. Actually, stronger than RI (but weaker than CC), and no anchors to worry about, though, of course, RI is "perma" against AVs and the like for the duration of the fight. Still, that's pretty freakin "Win".
I think ppl hate Liquefy because it's on a long recharge, but it's the exact same recharge as EMP, which I don't hear too many complaints about, not to mention, no -end recovery either. Oh, mobs run out of Liquefy, but you can circumvent some of that by positioning yourself inside of it. I do know, every time I get in trouble and lay down Liquefy, we win the fight and no one really understands why (mostly the -to hit). My only dillema w/Liquefy is whether to slot 3 enzymes & 3 rech IOs to max out the debuffs, or 6-slot Cloud Senses for the bonuses (lose ranged def cap w/o that set).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
maybe uninteresting, but my favorites to team with are thermal and dark. not because they're the best, but because i guess i have the best understanding of what they're giving me. and can utilize it better.
Going to jump on the Traps bandwagon. It just does so many things well and if you IO the powers as was mentioned it really just adds some amazing bonuses to the set. The Lockdown Proc to Poison Trap is one very simple example of this. One power and one Proc can hold 7 or 8 mobs and the lingering effect it has is amazing. Just when you thought Poison Traps was over you see a mob run in and suddenly notice the Lockdown Proc kick in. On top of all of this Poison Trap has such a quick recharge that you could just about perma spam it.
FFG you could use it to take alpha's it is so resilient. You can toss it in against mobs run into it and lay down a poison trap and some aoe effects. If its not destroyed more then likely you will have pulled aggro off it by this time.
I think the goodness about it is that every power you pick up for the most part barring Time Bomb offers something really good for you. How many times are you just trying to decide which power is the least suckiest power to choose from at a certain level. Traps really just does not have that issue.
Further it offers very good IO choices for a build. Meaning just about each power has some decent IO choices to pick from that will benefit your build in some way.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
My favorite support set to PLAY is probably Dark Miasma, by a rather large margin.
My favorite Support set to play WITH is basically anything, provided it's controller knows WTH they're doing.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Cold.
I remember when it was only available for Corrs, they were rare to see compared to other sets. Now I see Colds everywhere.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Definitely agree. It's one of my favorite controller secondaries.
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Originally Posted by Razia
It is a better controller secondary than a defender primary.
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Frankly, I find MOST support sets make better Controller secondaries than Defender Primaries.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
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Storm is a big one for that. I MUCH prefer pairing it with a control set that allows me to negate the KB if I want to (Fire/Earth/Ice/Plant immobilizes) or with Gravity allowing you to combine Crushing Field with Freezing Rain to form a debuffing knockdown field mobs can't escape from.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
My favourite set to play with in general is Force Field. The defense is great, and I will always prefer the constant wide-area anti-mez effect to the short-lived single-target de-mezzers even with the sleep hole.
My least favourite set in general play would have to be Radiation. The set offers no mez protection to the user and a sizable portion of its usefulness lies in enemy-affecting toggles which are too easily nullified by the numerous mez effects the enemies use.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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The defender numbers are far superior. I consider Defender TA on par with Traps.
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Originally Posted by Razia
Really can't agree with TA being meh. It is a better controller secondary than a defender primary.... at least it is for me. Love my elec/TA.
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When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
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Fixed that for you.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
My least favourite set in general play would have to be Radiation. The set offers no mez protection to the user and a sizable portion of its usefulness lies in enemy-affecting toggles which are too easily nullified by numerous teammates not paying attention to the anchors.
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Actually the right answer here is "Which numbers?". The Holds, Immobs and Sleep are higher (longer durations) for Controllers, the debuffs (except Slow) are higher for Defenders. |
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
The defender numbers are far superior. I consider Defender TA on par with Traps.
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Slows are the same (because Controllers and Defenders use the same modifiers and summon the same Glue Arrow patch).
Oil Slick arrow seems to summon the same patch regardless of AT.
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I just put enough recharge in my Ill/emp that everyone gets Fort. Unless they don't want it. I should revisit her build with alpha slots and such now. |
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
You know what's even better? The player who knows when to break those rules. When they know the encounters to stack CM on the melees to get them through a high-mag mez. When they Fort the tank right before Lord Recluse, because there's a big difference between 45% and 75% defense. When AB goes on the one who's eating the heavy slows or endurance drains, rather than the EMP-happy Rad.
I mean, I'm happy to see the Blaster with Fort, the squishies with CM and the emps trading AB, but sometimes you need to rethink your priorities. And I love it when you get a player that's actually prepared to do that. |
Hmm... I love playing support sets. (Except for FF - love teaming with them, can't stand playing them.) My favorite to team with? With the exception of a good blaster? People I can learn from - good Traps or Stormy. I'm awesome on Dark or Emp, I don't screw up Rad or Cold, but I'm still learning the finer points of positioning for storm and traps.
Altoholism isn't a problem, its a calling.
60+ characters, 5 years, 3 50's.
try a mind/rad troller or a rad / sonic defender both will debuff very well and add good support for teams.
Talos Maltalomar lvl 50 Rad/Rad Corrupter - Triumph Server
Arack BloodThrall lvl 50 BS/SR Scrapper - Triumph Server
Rose's Kiss Lvl 50 Mind/Nrg/Ice PermaDom - Triumph Server