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Uh, right. You sound like the guy I was in a group with the other night who said defense was worthless (was a WP tank who wouldn't pick up heightened senses because defense was worthless and it was a waste of power), and his softcapped ninjitsu stalker gets hit all the time, so numbers mean nothing! Yea, we pointed and laughed at him too.|
Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
So are you.. sorry what suppresion period? Also again you forgot the alpha slot.. there are no diminishing returns there. Yes I always have an attack up
Your math is cool but in it you forget that it never plays as well as your math says because they are just numbers.. and you can make your numbers say whatever you want but they do not apply to what its like to play. It's as you say "completely unrealistic" I think that about sums up your math to. So I should assume that your build has FS at about 8 seconds or is it 9? Would that change your math? I never said my build was Bestest as you say, I am saying ss/fire is not as good as you make it out to be. |
As I said, I don't have a SS/Fire brute, as such, I don't have a build, but if you would read instead of ignoring half the post, the build that hits 27 second on LS, recharges FS in 6 seconds. Still four times Pretty much no matter how you work the math, there you will be using FS four times per LR, with a 2-3 second gap (so.. nine times per two LR's) between the fourth and LR.
So yes, dismiss the numbers all you want, just because you don't believe them doesn't make them any less real. AS I said, the numbers don't lie, no matter what you think of them.
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>Trust my math so much I forget something|
Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
LOL! MIDS!.. oh ya everything in mids is exactly right..LOL!
Have you ever built a toon in mids then made it exactly as such in game and then found out its not playing the way you thought it might? You trust your math to much and you always forget something. |
.. what did I forget? That I can log into the game and check the numbers like I just did, or how they remained the exact same? Oh wait, no, you are probably going to tell me the devs put the wrong numbers on the powers too! gasp, whatever shall I do.
Yea, this is me walking away from this conversation because you make zero sense buddy.
I would never say that defence was worthless.. I love defence I use it in all my farm builds. Lyger does not use any defence on his ss/fire toon.. I would say most of the people here don't use it cause they think its worthless for fire farming.
So maybe you were talking to Lyger last night.
Ya you should build up and SS/Fire and try out your math. See if its exactly right. Please do it.
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Originally Posted by Ryougi
Uh, right. You sound like the guy I was in a group with the other night who said defense was worthless (was a WP tank who wouldn't pick up heightened senses because defense was worthless and it was a waste of power), and his softcapped ninjitsu stalker gets hit all the time, so numbers mean nothing! Yea, we pointed and laughed at him too.
As I said, I don't have a SS/Fire brute, as such, I don't have a build, but if you would read instead of ignoring half the post, the build that hits 27 second on LS, recharges FS in 6 seconds. Still four times Pretty much no matter how you work the math, there you will be using FS four times per LR, with a 2-3 second gap (so.. nine times per two LR's) between the fourth and LR. So yes, dismiss the numbers all you want, just because you don't believe them doesn't make them any less real. AS I said, the numbers don't lie, no matter what you think of them. |
Ya.. Oh look I just checked my numbers in game for end use.. and wow they are not the same as in mids..strange... they seem to be off.. wonder why?
yes.. yes run away ahahah!
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Originally Posted by Ryougi
>Trust my math so much I forget something
.. what did I forget? That I can log into the game and check the numbers like I just did, or how they remained the exact same? Oh wait, no, you are probably going to tell me the devs put the wrong numbers on the powers too! gasp, whatever shall I do. Yea, this is me walking away from this conversation because you make zero sense buddy. |
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Sorry, but just typing "LOL" doesn't invalidate the math. |
Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
LOL! MIDS!.. oh ya everything in mids is exactly right..LOL!
[snip] You trust your math to much and you always forget something. |
Look, I get that you like your Elec, that's cool. Elec is a very fun powerset. But let it go already; it's been shown again and again on the boards that SS puts out more sustained DPS than Elec with the bonus of better ST damage too.
You should look at the old build guides that ThugsRUs did. He was a very hardcore farmer. He created an extremely expensive Elec/SD brute for farming (and wrote an associated guide), and later stripped it of IOs once he realized that SS/SD was better. He most definitely didn't simply fall in love with a particular powerset. He was all about maximum results.
Anyway, like I said, it's great that you're passionate about the Elec powerset and I'm sure you've built an impressive build. Just because there's another powerset that edges it out doesn't diminish your character in any way.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
Apparently someone didn't like my "smarter than a cockroach" comment. Bah.
Let him get by with thinking the numbers in game lie. We're all terribad players. Ss/Fire is the answer the OP was looking for and he got it, and probably even rolled one.
If you don't move, BBJ will just go away.
Someone post your best time through an AE farm using your favorite ss/fire toon.
Please msg me your settings, AE number and the time it took you to run it. No insps.
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Originally Posted by Sardan
Sorry, but just typing "LOL" doesn't invalidate the math.
Look, I get that you like your Elec, that's cool. Elec is a very fun powerset. But let it go already; it's been shown again and again on the boards that SS puts out more sustained DPS than Elec with the bonus of better ST damage too. You should look at the old build guides that ThugsRUs did. He was a very hardcore farmer. He created an extremely expensive Elec/SD brute for farming (and wrote an associated guide), and later stripped it of IOs once he realized that SS/SD was better. He most definitely didn't simply fall in love with a particular powerset. He was all about maximum results. Anyway, like I said, it's great that you're passionate about the Elec powerset and I'm sure you've built an impressive build. Just because there's another powerset that edges it out doesn't diminish your character in any way. |
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I don't know if you realize this, but you're supposed to be at least 13 to play the game. Come back in about 8 years. |
Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
Ya.. Oh look I just checked my numbers in game for end use.. and wow they are not the same as in mids..strange... they seem to be off.. wonder why?
yes.. yes run away ahahah! |
/leavingalonetroll
Then you must be amazed at my abilities for a 5 year old. So give me the respect I deserve.
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Originally Posted by Pyro_Master_NA
I don't know if you realize this, but you're supposed to be at least 13 to play the game. Come back in about 8 years.
/leavingalonetroll |
just curious, but why no insps? doing farming, usually insps drop like crazy. i'd assume most people use them as fast as they drop.
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For some it's a measure of build\farm effectiveness that way you don't rely upon them to measure how good your farming is.
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Originally Posted by Shisui
just curious, but why no insps? doing farming, usually insps drop like crazy. i'd assume most people use them as fast as they drop.
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Which really does not have much of a strong point since they can take the same inspirations as the next guy and they drop as you kill. When I was timing the fire/fire/fire tanker I did notice he/she took a lot more reds than the others I was timing. Yet, with 4-5 reds, the tanker was still doing less dmg than ss/fire brute with very high fury.
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Originally Posted by _Krom_
For some it's a measure of build\farm effectiveness that way you don't rely upon them to measure how good your farming is.
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Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
Just tryin to make it straight forward. Just the natural buffs is all you should need.
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Originally Posted by Commando
Which really does not have much of a strong point since they can take the same inspirations as the next guy and they drop as you kill. When I was timing the fire/fire/fire tanker I did notice he/she took a lot more reds than the others I was timing. Yet, with 4-5 reds, the tanker was still doing less dmg than ss/fire brute with very high fury.
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I have been as straight forward since my first post in this thread, please refer to it. More straightforward than the math written here is the math shown in my practice alone or vs others.
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Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
Just tryin to make it straight forward. Just the natural buffs is all you should need.
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Repeat Offenders forever !
Make all IO's available in Paragon Market! NCSoft, the chinese are making BIG money selling influence and other stuff in the game. Best way to stop them = make the paragon market a place to buy all IO's and perhaps other things as well.
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I don't want him to go away. Even eryq2 on the market forums isn't that funny.| If you don't move, BBJ will just go away. |
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| For some it's a measure of build\farm effectiveness that way you don't rely upon them to measure how good your farming is. |
Either way, he's shooting himself in the foot with that rule, SS benefits less from insps than other builds (as you're running at +~405% damage with double stacked rage rather than +~245% on other powersets).
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| Someone post your best time through an AE farm using your favorite ss/fire toon |
How about this instead, you post a video (raw and unedited footage from mission start to exit, decent resolution so enemy level is clearly distinguishable, influence at start and exit) and we go from there. You're the only one thinking differently so the burden of proof is on you.
I bet you won't do it, you're just another random running his mouth.
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I am very interested on the results here. Would love to see how my own SS/FA compare to the farmers out there.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
How about this instead, you post a video (raw and unedited footage from mission start to exit, decent resolution so enemy level is clearly distinguishable, influence at start and exit) and we go from there. You're the only one thinking differently so the burden of proof is on you.
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So lets get this thing moving.......
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Under optimal conditions, LR is stuck at 400% damage cap because of pseudo pet damage caps. It's because of this that LR (and it's corresponding clone, SC) is worse off when in a team filled with kins, and especially for brutes cause they can already nearly hit that damage cap solo (and ESPECIALLY for shield defense brutes, which can get damage bonuses past that cap due to AAO). (on that note, the changes to FE is a godsend since it also allows brutes to gain more damage past the damage cap)
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Originally Posted by Ryougi
It proves that under optimal conditions, SS does more sustained dps; but SS has an ace in the hole: Rage, triple stacked that's 240% + 90% + (~270%, 100% fury is rare, after all) = 600%, 150% off of the cap by itself.
Meanwhile LR is stuck with 440%, and only for the 10 seconds BU is up. (Rage is up for 120 seconds gents, 20 of that is triple stacked, 80 or so double stacked.) |
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Yes, I would know because I've played and farmed extensively with both a SS/Fire and an Elec/SD Scrapper. The Elec/SD Scrapper, for the record being a much stronger farmer than a Elec/Fire would be because of the dual telenukes, AAO contributing more to damage than Blazing Aura does and being tougher to boot. |
Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
I guess you "would" know right? Since you use it in TS?
You know it would not be so hard for you all if you would just admit that you embellish the truth about ss/fire. Sure its great but you all make it sound so much better than it is. I guess I would think that to if that's all I knew.. mm no maybe not.. I like to try different things.. unklike the ss/fire ONLY community. |
You're wrong in assuming that everyone here saying SS/Fire is better at farming than Elec/Fire hasn't played Elec.
Although I suppose if you disregard any kind of numerical proof or demonstration and the voiced experience of the community as irrelevant, dumb assumptions are all you're left to argue with.
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My elec/fire could do about 1,45 mill per min
My claws/fire could do about 1,01m mill per min.
SS/Fire can go farther ahead than both of em.
elec/fire is good though when you can target cap fiery embraced LR alot
Just a nitpick: comparing scrapper attacks to brute attacks isn't a fair comparison, because of that fury playing a big factor in how effective attacks are (and hence reducing the factor of other individual damage bonuses). For instance, AAO would contribute far less to brute damage than scrapper damage.
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What?
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Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
Also double stacked rage is not RAGE x2.. I belive its about 33% more.. something about diminishing returns or something.
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ALMOST had me going for a page or two. (Could ELM/FA REALLY be that good? *doubts*)|
Originally Posted by BellyButtonJelly
So are you.. sorry what suppresion period? Also again you forgot the alpha slot.. there are no diminishing returns there. Yes I always have an attack up
Your math is cool but in it you forget that it never plays as well as your math says because they are just numbers.. and you can make your numbers say whatever you want but they do not apply to what its like to play. It's as you say "completely unrealistic" I think that about sums up your math to(LOL @triple stacked rage.. ya you embellish). So I should assume that your build has FS at about 8 seconds or is it 9? Would that change your math? Also double stacked rage is not RAGE x2.. I belive its about 33% more.. something about diminishing returns or something. I never said my build was Bestest as you say, I am saying ss/fire is not as good as you make it out to be. |
But this just confirmed for me that you really don't know as much about it as you think you do.
Yes, there is suppression when it is attempted before the first application wears off.
Yes, Alpha is basically built INTO the idea of diminishing because it acts upon power slotting, not global bonuses. Power slotting is subject to ED and so is most of Alpha.
Yes, triple-stacked Rage has diminishing returns. Sitting at double is the way to go.
No, Rage stacks add. As in 80% + 80% +80%. Ever use "real numbers" (in game)? Try Powers, Combat Attributes. Very interesting stuff.
my farming build is Fire/Shield/Energy Mastery.
I know I could have picked pyre mastery for the Fireball, but energy mastery made me a little more hardy.
what I do is pop build up, and then shield charge+fire sword circle into the mobs, which usually takes out all minions and leuts. Then I just quickly finish the bosses off.
Magisterum- 50+3 Fortunata--Virtue
Lukerion- 33 Emp/Rad Defender--Virtue
Noah Heartily- 34 SS/SD brute- Virtue
Mika Heartily- 50+1 Fire/MM blaster-Virtue
Really?? who cares if you don't use insps.. who cares if that means that I might do less dmg.. what's wrong with trying to get a direct baseline of a powersets unassisted dmg in action? If my build is slower who cares right? It's all just a lose lose for me anyway. So how am I shooting myself in the foot? Then the SS/Fire team can be even more happy when the margin of victory is 10min better for them. YAY!
I can't even understand you.. serious you want to nit pick about insps?? Why?
I never had a hope of anyone doing it anyway. Trust issues I suppose.. but I would be clear and honest.. no tricks.
I think since you are so awesome with the SS/Fire that maybe you should set the benchmark for all others to compare to. Why don't you make the video and put it on youtube with all your rules and demonstrate the true power of ss/fire. That way you can show everyone how great your build skillzzz are.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
I don't want him to go away. Even eryq2 on the market forums isn't that funny.
Personally, while I use insps liberally, I like building without insps in mind, because if I'm PLing 3-4 people at once, I'm going to get insps a lot slower than if I'm solo. Either way, he's shooting himself in the foot with that rule, SS benefits less from insps than other builds (as you're running at +~405% damage with double stacked rage rather than +~245% on other powersets). So what, then you make up an imaginary number that is better than whatever the "someone" posts? Nah, words are too easy to weasel out of. How about this instead, you post a video (raw and unedited footage from mission start to exit, decent resolution so enemy level is clearly distinguishable, influence at start and exit) and we go from there. You're the only one thinking differently so the burden of proof is on you. I bet you won't do it, you're just another random running his mouth. |
LOL! MIDS!.. oh ya everything in mids is exactly right..LOL!
Have you ever built a toon in mids then made it exactly as such in game and then found out its not playing the way you thought it might?
You trust your math to much and you always forget something.
I don't even HAVE an SS/fire, though doing this math is seriously making me want to make one.
All of these numbers are pulled straight from mids. all of the math is just looking up caps on paragon wiki and doing grade school algebra and arithmetic.
and go ahead, try something different, we never said it was the ONLY build, if you'll notice the thread title.
Very Best Farmer
We're answering the guys question, mathmatically, SS/Fire has a much higher sustained dps than Elec/fire, therefore is the better farmer.
Elec fire works for you, pishposh, happy for you, but it's not the best, therefore it's not answering his question