Quote:
Very well said indeed.
|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
GG, I know you think you're being helpful, but you're clearly an extrovert. Introverts can actually empathise with extroverts because the culture forces your point of view on us, so we have no choice but to do so. But you clearly simply do not understand what introversion is.
It's not a defect, it's not a deficiency. It's simply a difference. We are not inherently inept at dealing with people (many introverts that are are so largely due to lack of practice), we are not incapable of dealing with people (I work a help desk. I get paid to deal with people, and am surpassingly good at it, if my performance reviews of the past five years can be believed), we simply are drained by doing so. Extroverts are recharged by going out and mingling with people; interacting with groups, friends and strangers all get an extrovert pumped and relaxed, making them able to continue on with whatever tasks they need to expend their mental energy on. Introverts are the reverse; dealing with people drains us, and we have to recharge by withdrawing. That difference doesn't cripple us - it's just a difference. Just like some people train for marathons for fun, play sports for fun, or engage in any other tiring activity for fun, an introvert can interact with people for fun as well (I do it all the time). But just like no one can run a marathon constantly, an introvert cannot interact with others constantly. With as much as modern American society enforces the idea that extroversion is the only norm and introverts are somehow broken, we are often forced into that interaction even when our reserves are already drained. Forcing us into that is a lot like forcing an exhausted marathon runner to run another mile - you're not helping any one, and are very likely to be doing active harm. I know you mean well, but seriously: stop it. You're not helping. |
Laile - @Kaie
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, the glass is half full, there is always another perspective and no they are not following you.
Quote:
There's your problem then. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I never said we were coordinated.
 |
I find that if you set a few basic guidelines for your tactic and everyone actually sticks to it (which is were PuG TFs tend to go wrong if they go wrong), nothing is exceptionally hard in this game. Even on an all SO team. Hey, my VG completed a MoLRSF once where four people were on SO/white IO characters and for two it was the first LRSF they ever did. Quote:
| I also don't mind that we fail the ITF or LRSF (nor do we consistently or routinely fail). I just don't want to see content much above that level, because we do sometimes still fail them. Content much above the level where we sometimes fail will become content that we consistently fail, which is (to me) an unacceptable level of difficulty. |
Quote:
| Honestly, soloing an AV isn't really about skill. It's mostly about being able to survive the AV's incoming damage (achieved mostly with debuffs or defence buffs) while packing enough -regen to allow you to deliver consistent damage. It's really more an exercise in patience than anything else. |
I soloed a GM a while back (the name escapes me, the DE one that hits you with a car on a stick) on my dark/dark corruptor (with a little help of Shivans, a HVAS and Amy
) I really wanted the badge, and noone wanted to help. 
Most boring 20 minutes ever spent in this game.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Quote:
Hear, hear!|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
GG, I know you think you're being helpful, but you're clearly an extrovert. Introverts can actually empathise with extroverts because the culture forces your point of view on us, so we have no choice but to do so. But you clearly simply do not understand what introversion is.
It's not a defect, it's not a deficiency. It's simply a difference. We are not inherently inept at dealing with people (many introverts that are are so largely due to lack of practice), we are not incapable of dealing with people (I work a help desk. I get paid to deal with people, and am surpassingly good at it, if my performance reviews of the past five years can be believed), we simply are drained by doing so. Extroverts are recharged by going out and mingling with people; interacting with groups, friends and strangers all get an extrovert pumped and relaxed, making them able to continue on with whatever tasks they need to expend their mental energy on. Introverts are the reverse; dealing with people drains us, and we have to recharge by withdrawing. That difference doesn't cripple us - it's just a difference. Just like some people train for marathons for fun, play sports for fun, or engage in any other tiring activity for fun, an introvert can interact with people for fun as well (I do it all the time). But just like no one can run a marathon constantly, an introvert cannot interact with others constantly. With as much as modern American society enforces the idea that extroversion is the only norm and introverts are somehow broken, we are often forced into that interaction even when our reserves are already drained. Forcing us into that is a lot like forcing an exhausted marathon runner to run another mile - you're not helping any one, and are very likely to be doing active harm. I know you mean well, but seriously: stop it. You're not helping. |
Introvert does not mean socially inept.
Introvert does not mean broken.
Introvert does not mean antisocial.
Introvert does not mean that one hates people.
Introvert does not mean that one has social anxiety disorder.
Introvert only means being social is a energy intensive thing.
I am an introvert. I also am somewhat regularly social, go to huge events, and I am actually out in the crowds for some time before I adjourn to recover in order to do it again. I join the occasional PUG, chat on a global channel, and my preferred employment deals with people on a regular basis.
The world is set up to cater solely to extroverts. All I ask is that some acknowledgment that introverts (as a class) exist and are not broken be made. Saying that introverts require therapy1 is, quite frankly, wrong.
1. Sure, there are introverts who do need therapy, but being an introvert itself is not therapy-worthy any more than being an extrovert itself is.
Primarily on Victory, Virtue, Justice, and Guardian, in that order.
Member of the Pride public global channel
Quote:
Okay, so you don't dislike the Incarnate content because you're an introvert, you dislike it because you're not a very good player.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I never said we were coordinated.
I also don't mind that we fail the ITF or LRSF (nor do we consistently or routinely fail). I just don't want to see content much above that level, because we do sometimes still fail them. Content much above the level where we sometimes fail will become content that we consistently fail, which is (to me) an unacceptable level of difficulty. |
And, y'know, that's okay. People are going to have different abilities for a particular game task, and different tastes for what they find fun enough to learn and get better at.
But I really don't think all new content has to be aimed at the lowest common denominator.
Character index
I'm having some difficulty staying completely objective after the thread so far; I will try to keep it to saying I am considerably closer in support of Eiko-Chan's point of view than most of the people who seem to be attacking hir. I will also point out that people less inclined or able to deal with a lot of other people in what is supposed to be their off time are going to be underrepresented as they're less likely to be interested in padding their post count or getting involved in a discussion unless it's seriously important to them.
Objectively, what I am most looking for in a MMO is the opportunity to get together with friends and have fun adventuring; and superhero settings have been a favorite for doing that for some of us since the mid-80s. Paying ~$15 per month to have someone else come up with the plots, create the bad guys, draw the maps, and do the combat math is a great deal, even if it isn't always as good as homemade. CoH still leads the world in terms of the ease of getting folks together and letting them have fun as a group without having to spend a lot of time worrying about relative levels, gear, schedules, and other hassles; but there are alarming signs that it's no longer a development priority and the time for people to speak up is before it's too late.
The two new TFs are an example of what seems like a particularly artificial change to make it harder not for people to complete them, but to get together in the first place to even attempt them; and there are worrisome signs that upcoming content is going to be worse yet. 8-person minimum TFs are bad enough, and something we don't get to do often; 8-person TFs that hard-require you to bring a level 50 character and that give you a completely arbitrary massive debuff if you've not gone through an unlock process with that particular 50 are not a good thing at all; and the hinted 12+ person Incarnate content may be worse yet.
Seriously, why not make them a 45-50 TF without the -4 debuff for non-Incarnates, or even a wider range? Note that I'm not asking for them to be made one jot easier; I'm perfectly fine with it being designed specifically to be power balanced for 8 people with a slotted Alpha, and would be OK with going in with 6 people, some of them exemped up from a lower level, and having a tough time or even failing because of it... what I don't want is arbitrary limits that say we can't even try. (And frankly, the Alpha Slot and subsequent ones should be desirable because they're cool and useful in of themselves, not because you get slapped down for not having one.)
On the previously fairly rare occasions we got folks to do a TF, why was (and still is really) the ITF the choice? Because anyone 35+ can join (not everyone I play with has even one level 50 character, and few have many) and it only requires 6 players. We've been trying to do more of the late-game TFs lately to try and get folks components, and it's been far more hassle to try and get people together... if someone's running late from work or has to pick up the kids or whatever, they can't join up in progress; if we don't have 8 people ready to start many of the TFs are locked out; it is a hassle for your character when you're locked out of other content during the week until you can meet again to finish, people don't get to play whichever character they want, and so on. We are spending noticeably less time enjoying the game together and more time being frustrated with arbitrary limitations.
Again, I do not in general object to there being harder content; different people want different things, and there are times I want a tactical planning challenge as a change of pace myself. But I definitely don't want the main story of the game to be locked away behind an increasingly exclusive set of barriers that make it far harder for friends to get together and enjoy the game and its story, especially friends that have a wide variety in their available play time and skill levels.
To give a more concrete example, over New Years we had a bunch of people get together locally along with some of our other friends online; up to 7 people in my apartment and another 4 remotely at one point. We did very little connected to new content, because several didn't have 50s at all, some had one or a few 50s but either didn't have the shards or didn't want to play that particular character, etc. Locking ourselves into even an existing TF was problematic, because people did come and go due to other commitments... and 9-11 players isn't a good fit for TFs, as it's too few to do two of most, but too many to go together on one. The odds of us getting enough folks for future 12+ person content even a few times a year are not looking good. We did have a blast playing CoH, but eventually the existing content aimed at this sort of play will get gradually staler, and it's not looking encouraging for it being a focus going forward right now.
I've got more comments I could make in regards to direction, such as the godlike power process traditionally being a far more personal and specific hero's journey (or descent into darkness), but I hope to have a bit of time to actually play later tonight and need to keep this short.
Miuramir, Windchime, Sariel the Golden, Scarlet Antinomist...
Casino Extortion #4031: Neutral, Council+Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/CFMA]
Bad Candy #87938: Neutral, Custom [SFMA/MLMA/SLMA/FHMA/HFMA]
CoH Helper * HijackThis
I'm not sure how this Producer's Letter turned into a debate between casual, introverted, solo content and power-gamer, extroverted, team content, but here is my two cents:
I hope they keep doing what they are doing.
I solo and I team and I enjoy the opportunity to do both. Sometimes I just like to be by myself and run missions or just run around zones and get exploration badges. Other times I love being on steamroller teams that tackle the hardest content the game has to offer and the only challenge seems to be whether we can do it faster than we did it last time.
I have always appreciated that this game allows me to be a gamer and a father. I can start a solo mission and then sit in a corner while I go make dinner or help with homework. I like that I can play for hours or just a few minutes and still feel that I am making some progress. If the future of the game took those things away, I would not be happy.
But just because they are adding more difficult, team oriented challenges does NOT mean that they will cease creating story arcs and other content that can be enjoyed by a casual, solo player. As mentioned several times above, the Ramiel arc is difficult for some players and powersets but I believe it is soloable by anyone willing to buy inspirations and temp powers. After that, you can solo your way to godhood.
It will not be as fast as those who prefer to team, but a soloer can get shards and eventually will have enough to craft a boost. With that, they will be able to tackle more foes, harder foes, and perhaps have a greater chance to earn more shards.
And in Issue 19 they also added more tips, two new arcs with interesting stories and branching side missions, and three Praetorian zone events that are absolutely soloable.
I don't think Eiko-Chan, and those that she may speak for have anything to worry about.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
I, personally, am an excellent player. But one person can't compete a TF solo (except maybe for Mind Doms, but that's another story). The people I run TFs with - and mark me, we run infrequently; it was perhaps once or twice a month when we were doing regularly, and it's been months since that happened - run a gambit from slighter better than me to so wrapped up in concepts and ideas that powers come a close tenth to prime interests. |
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Okay, so you don't dislike the Incarnate content because you're an introvert, you dislike it because you're not a very good player.
|
While we have completed all the top-tier TFs available to us before i19 (a couple of us are almost exclusively villain players, so we as a group don't have a STF under our belts, but this includes BSF, LRSF, and ITF), we have also failed all of those one or more times as well. Every run we make is not a success (but every run is not a failure, either).
That, to me, is an ideal balance of challenge. That failure can come once in a while - due to bad luck, or the wrong mix of powers, or lack of time to regroup and try again - is perfectly fine. That failure should be certain - which I fear might come should "the most challenging content yet" grow to be a reality for future content - is not.
All talk thus far of end game Incarnate content (and thus, for the purposes of this debate, appeals to non-Incarnate content are irrelevant) has been of trials and raids - and trials and raids of unsurpassed difficulty. If the developers want to put out some news about something else, I welcome the opportunity to be able to look forward to new developments. But so far they have been unwilling to discuss anything but these new, harder, bigger team packages, and it is from this that I base my idea that they are telling us this is what they intend to give us, and thus my objection to this being the direction they're choosing to take the Incarnate content.
If someone with a red name wants to come in here and tell me I'm wrong, and that there's other content more to my liking for Incarnates on the horizon, I really wish they would do so. Until then, however, I will continue to express my displeasure with the content they have chosen to concentrate on.
Quote:
To clarify. You can't even attempt the TF unless everyone on your team has gone through the unlock process (i.e. becoming an incarnate and running Ramiel's arc) the debuff happens if you have nothing slotted in that slot. That is all storyline-specific stuff. Allowing non-Incarnates to run said TFs the way they are written would mess up the continity of the storyline, and the point that it "takes an Incarnate" to do this task. Any future Incarnate content (weather it be solo or team) will, I'm sure, require at least "Alpha Unlocked" if not having something slotted, as the story dictates. There is/will be no exemplaring up from lower levels, you must be a 50 Incarnate. This is what "end game" content means. It's as much a canon/continuity/RP reason as anything else why you must have these things to attempt these two tasks (and likely others to come).
|
Originally Posted by Miuramir
The two new TFs are an example of what seems like a particularly artificial change to make it harder not for people to complete them, but to get together in the first place to even attempt them; and there are worrisome signs that upcoming content is going to be worse yet. 8-person minimum TFs are bad enough, and something we don't get to do often; 8-person TFs that hard-require you to bring a level 50 character and that give you a completely arbitrary massive debuff if you've not gone through an unlock process with that particular 50 are not a good thing at all; and the hinted 12+ person Incarnate content may be worse yet.
Seriously, why not make them a 45-50 TF without the -4 debuff for non-Incarnates, or even a wider range? Note that I'm not asking for them to be made one jot easier; I'm perfectly fine with it being designed specifically to be power balanced for 8 people with a slotted Alpha, and would be OK with going in with 6 people, some of them exemped up from a lower level, and having a tough time or even failing because of it... what I don't want is arbitrary limits that say we can't even try. (And frankly, the Alpha Slot and subsequent ones should be desirable because they're cool and useful in of themselves, not because you get slapped down for not having one.) |
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
Quote:
Actually, my Energy/Energy blaster soloed Positron, Synapse, Sister Psycho, and Citadel. For the badges. And task force commander, but mostly for the badges.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
I, personally, am an excellent player. But one person can't compete a TF solo (except maybe for Mind Doms, but that's another story).
|
Quote:
|
The people I run TFs with - and mark me, we run infrequently; it was perhaps once or twice a month when we were doing regularly, and it's been months since that happened - run a gambit from slighter better than me to so wrapped up in concepts and ideas that powers come a close tenth to prime interests. While we have completed all the top-tier TFs available to us before i19 (a couple of us are almost exclusively villain players, so we as a group don't have a STF under our belts, but this includes BSF, LRSF, and ITF), we have also failed all of those one or more times as well. Every run we make is not a success (but every run is not a failure, either). That, to me, is an ideal balance of challenge. That failure can come once in a while - due to bad luck, or the wrong mix of powers, or lack of time to regroup and try again - is perfectly fine. That failure should be certain - which I fear might come should "the most challenging content yet" grow to be a reality for future content - is not. |
Keep in mind that things like Apex and Tin Mage are currently being run by players with a single common or uncommon Alpha slot (and sometimes not even that, albeit inadvisedly). Apex and Tin Mage have to stand up to players eventually running them with ten Incarnate slots. In effect, this is similar to the old school method of dealing with difficult missions, like say the Terra mission. Just outlevel it and come back to it when you're +2 to it. If Apex and Tin Mage are too hard today, revisit in a few Issues when you have four Incarnate slots. Or for that matter by the next issue when we will have level shift. With level shift, all those +4s become +3s - coincidentally the point at which the LRSF went from more difficult than the average player could often handle to difficult but not impossible even for average players. Incoming damage and effects drop by about 8%, and your own damage and effects become 35% stronger against the critters - a pretty big jump. Just that opportunity alone is apparently coming shortly with the rare and very rare Alphas.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Sorry, should have been clearer; I meant specifically the high-level TFs, not all TFs. Though I'm sure someone's going to come along with their "I soloed the ITF" story now too. (As I already acknowledged the Mind Doms soloing the LRSF, I hope no one feels a need to mention that, too.)
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Actually, my Energy/Energy blaster soloed Positron, Synapse, Sister Psycho, and Citadel. For the badges. And task force commander, but mostly for the badges.
|
Quote:
Trying to catch up on this thread. I saw this quickly. I call this complete bs. I am extremely introverted in the real world. In game I can easily casual team with people.
|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
For an introvert, there is no such thing as "casual teaming".
|
On the issue of solo V.S. SG/guild content baring I have always felt that as an MMORPG the game content should be balanced around PUGS.
That is all content should be doable with any PUG. I have allways felt that this is how the game was balanced. The fact that most of the content IS solo able is just a bonus.
As a player of an MMOG, if you are unwilling to at the very least do what little content that requires a team with a PUG...
Why are you here?
Are you unwilling to move you digital representation along with seven other digital representations for two or three hours? Most of the time you don't even have to say anything to them other than "Hi." and Thanks for the invite. Good run." And that's only if your feeling talkative. Hell you can even make a marco to do it for you.
I do a lot of soloing my self but when ever I encounter something I can't solo, I either find a PUG or make one.
And to all those soloists in this thread that are mad about more team based content. I just want to say that being an active participant in the forums involves a significantly greater amount of social interaction than joining a PUG.
(EDIT) Any one know if those helicopters in the first screen shot are in GR some where or are they new? I think the game could handle a helicopter. We know they have an animation for the blades moving. All they need to do next is to give it fly, full auto and explosive missiles. That would be the coolest boss fight EVER!
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Quote:
You're probably not as introverted as you think, then. You can be "shy" but extroverted (my brother is this), and you can be outgoing and introverted (as I am.)|
Originally Posted by Mylia
Trying to catch up on this thread. I saw this quickly. I call this complete bs. I am extremely introverted in the real world. In game I can easily casual team with people.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
Are you unwilling to move you digital representation along with seven other digital representations for two or three hours?
|
Even just teaming is social interaction, the action of characters working together towards a goal, having the action of those other characters affect you and the fight around you, having to adjust tactics because of the actions of those other characters are all things that can drain introverts. Note that "drain" does not mean "unable". It means what it says - it's tiring. It's exercise. Would you want to play the game if the only way you were allowed to do it was running on a treadmill? That's what you're saying here.
Quote:
| I just want to say that being an active participant in the forums involves a significantly greater amount of social interaction than joining a PUG. |
Those luxuries are absent in the game; all interaction is real-time, all decisions and interactions immediate. It's a vastly different thing, and once again the equating of the two shows a deep lack of understanding (I can't fault you for it, society does, in fact, think introverts are broken, but I shall do my best to educate as many as I can, as often as I can, to combat this.)
Quote:
I've never attempted it, but I believe ITF is probably soloable in theory. It would take forever, but I don't think its mathematically impossible. If Lusca is soloable, I'm pretty sure ITF is as well. If I was willing to spend a day on it, I believe the build I'm currently thinking about to update my Ill/Rad might have a shot at it. Everything else is just a question of time. Romulus is the only actual questionable fight. If the area was cleared by pulling first and you used every tool at your disposal, including large insps, temp powers, nukes, shivans, base buffs, and if Imperious behaves, maybe.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Sorry, should have been clearer; I meant specifically the high-level TFs, not all TFs. Though I'm sure someone's going to come along with their "I soloed the ITF" story now too. (As I already acknowledged the Mind Doms soloing the LRSF, I hope no one feels a need to mention that, too.)
|
This is more mental musing than relevant to the subject, but I think in general most things people think are impossible are not. I've done so many crazy things to prove people wrong who say something is impossible. I once spent an entire weekend perfecting the technique of pulling a boss away from another boss just so I could post on the forums that the person who said it was literally impossible was wrong. I spent weeks trying to come up with the right set of tactics to solo Black Scorpion in RV (on test) on Ill/Rad (with a heavy) just to prove it was possible.
I'm not really the worlds best MMO player, but I do know City of Heroes inside and out, and I am pretty persistent when I want to be. I once posted a continuing thread where I described the thirty nine attempts I made to solo Envoy of Shadows at +2 on my Ill/Rad. Envoy kept eating my Phantasms (yes: Phantasms, this was a long time ago and soloing AVs was not quite commonplace yet).
Actually, I'm a bit of a soloer myself. I don't mind teaming (I actually like teaming here and there), but I'm often solo, and in the past I was more of a soloist. Its no accident my main reached level 50 after 906 hours of play: virtually all of it up to level 30 totally solo and more than half from 30 to 50 solo. So a lot of my stunts over the years have been pushing the envelope of what a soloer can do; not to prove I'm a one-person-army, but rather because I'm usually solo normally.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Somehow I'm not surprised it's you coming back with the ITF solo story, Arcanaville.
I say that with great respect and admiration, of course.
Quote:
As long as a player is having fun, then they're a successful MMO player |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm not really the worlds best MMO player
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
Nope. I am pretty much a staple of what a introvert is. In the game, I am able to be in a casual team....one in that you will only see me talk roughly when someone levels.
|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
You're probably not as introverted as you think, then. You can be "shy" but extroverted (my brother is this), and you can be outgoing and introverted (as I am.)
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Those luxuries are absent in the game; all interaction is real-time, all decisions and interactions immediate. It's a vastly different thing, and once again the equating of the two shows a deep lack of understanding (I can't fault you for it, society does, in fact, think introverts are broken, but I shall do my best to educate as many as I can, as often as I can, to combat this.)
|
Then by rights driving to work must feel like a triathlon. That said if your view of work encompasses all human interaction and you consider playing this game solo to be relaxing more power to you.
However when you consider that many of the past 19 issues have provided you with content that is soloable its kind of extreme to start complaining that there's going to be a few (3-5) issues more focused on team play even then some solo content will be included in those issues its almost guaranteed.
As for useing this "introvert" excuse I will say that practice makes perfect. The "work" you refer to can be overcome by simply teaming more. You will eventually develop the ability to automatically adjust your gaming habits for your teammates. The problem seems, to me at least, that you don't want to put forth the minimum amount of effort required to enjoy the game at its fullest potential.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Quote:
Since we're talking about Incarnate content, not all content, the lack of solo Incarnate content (Ramiel doesn't count, as you are not running it as in Incarnate, but instead to become one) is the cause of complaint. |
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
However when you consider that many of the past 19 issues have provided you with content that is soloable its kind of extreme to start complaining that there's going to be a few (3-5) issues more focused on team play even then some solo content will be included in those issues its almost guaranteed.
|
Also at stake is the assurance that the Incarnate content will be "the most challenging content yet". That is also a direction undesired by many players, and telling us to simply skip the new advancement system to avoid it is likewise unacceptable.
Quote:
| As for useing this "introvert" excuse I will say that practice makes perfect. |
Quote:
Forums are in general a place that those unsatisfied with a game come to voice there complaints. This can be clearly seen in out vocal PVP formites. They are universally unhappy with the state of PVP in game. However nothing has been done for them. |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Also at stake is the assurance that the Incarnate content will be "the most challenging content yet". That is also a direction undesired by many players, and telling us to simply skip the new advancement system to avoid it is likewise unacceptable.
|
Why?
It's because there is another MASSIVE community that we never see or hear from, those content with the game as it is. It is those people the Devs listen to, it is for them that the new content is for.
The fact that the incarnate content that we have is team oriented is because that's what marketing told the Devs the largest part of the player base wanted. To say that there are many players that agree with you is to ignore the current state of the game, and how we got here.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Read the rest of the thread, especially my posts therein (or at the very least the most-commonly quoted post of mine here). You are quite simply wrong. Introversion isn't a malady. It's just a difference. It's not something you can "unlearn". It's not something that you'll just get rid of by "practice". You quite literally have no idea what you're talking about.
|
I'm not asking you to "unlearn" anything. I'm asking you to learn.
Learn as in acquire new skills or compensations for situations. Something every one is capable of. You as an introvert may have difficulty with that, but you can do it. Continually placing yourself in situations were you need those skills was simply the fastest way I could think of for you to acquire them.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Quote:
I read about a DB/Invuln scrapper who soloed ITF, so i had to give it a try on my BS/SD scrapper, and it was doable, it took me approx 3 days of faffig around on the last mission and countless deaths, but using the aggrocap it was possible to separate the nictus from rom. This was awhile ago, not sure how relevant it is nowadays, if they fixed that bit or not.
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I've never attempted it, but I believe ITF is probably soloable in theory. It would take forever, but I don't think its mathematically impossible. If Lusca is soloable, I'm pretty sure ITF is as well. If I was willing to spend a day on it, I believe the build I'm currently thinking about to update my Ill/Rad might have a shot at it. Everything else is just a question of time. Romulus is the only actual questionable fight. If the area was cleared by pulling first and you used every tool at your disposal, including large insps, temp powers, nukes, shivans, base buffs, and if Imperious behaves, maybe.
|
Wow this thread grew fast. Hard to keep up. There's only space to reply to a few people.
Thanks first to TheUnnamedOne. You had a well thought out post. And yes, I'm a bit premature. But I prefer to get my concerns out ahead of time in a thread that the devs read (as per original post) rather than hear about what comes out once resources are committed and they have to publish the content or all that work went to waste. Getting in on the planning phase helps at least having a chance my concerns are acknowledged.
GMan3, I appreciate your assessment of my post. I will admit I'm still affected by my EverQuest experience. The boards there were quite unpleasant, and that's putting it politely. I know I'm prone to over-react to MMOs based on that. I do have to learn to treat the here and now, and not just the past. Even so, if I see signs of my personal MMO history repeating itself, I will try and voice my concerns. I do hope it's all worrying for nothing.
Zombie man, it seems that any diverging point of view gets reduced to DOOM, or something else that mocks / insults / [pick your word since English is too subtle for me] the poster. It does seem you want a fight, and since it's not allowed on these boards, I can't oblige, but I even said they would never cut out casual and/or solo completely. But in your example, 2 years of high end would not be something I like, and I will therefore... complain. If you want to take issue with that, be my guest. If I misread your post, I apologise, but I do believe summarizing my post as "DOOM" is straw man like, if I have the English expression right. I got it from your own post to Eiko-Chan. FYI, how you treat some others on the board, no so much myself but especially Eiko-Chan...Not nice. Not nice at all.
Eiko-Chan, you are much more clear and concise than I ever could be. Speaking as a fellow introvert. Thank you. Just Thank you.
ClawsandEffect, I can't comment for Eiko-Chan, but for myself, of course it's not "my game". It was just a way to try and explain a point of view. For me, it's an expression, because I've found something that I like, and that's rare. Now, it's becoming something that appeals to more people, but that I personally like less.
To put a real example that's personal... I hate reality TV. I just hate it, so I don't watch it. I like Sci-Fi and Fantasy. However, Reality is cheap to make, and Sci-Fi is expensive. That means that unless the ratings are stellar, Sci-Fi gets cancelled early, and Reality sticks around, because it's cheap. I then get less of what I want, and more of what I don’t want.
It's not personal. It would actually be stupid for a TV Studio to avoid going where the money is. Hence there’s more and more Reality, less and less Sci-Fi (at least in my country). I don't expect it to change, but I would hope, that around the water cooler, even co-workers that love Reality feel a tiny bit sorry about me a go /patpat on the head, "Sorry for your lost shows." That's all I want if you like what I don’t. Obviously, if the future of CoH is (for example) 24 person raids because of high demand (making this up) it'd be stupid for NCSoft to ignore that. I just am sad for the (potential) loss of entertainment. That's all I meant. If the majority of the population wants challenge, group / TF and Raid content. Great. Enjoy your game. I glad you like it more. *I* just will like it less. That... I won't apologise for.
Ashtur, obviously CoH is not "the introverts" game, but I do believe that you can say CoH is far "easier" or less group focused than say, EverQuest, or, presumably, WoW and somesuch. The fact that gaming MMOs as a whole is team / raid / gear based is pretty evident, at least as far as the ones I've played. If I'm wrong about CoH being an "introvert" game, please use the proper word. I'm bad with them, especially in English. But, quite simply, I like the solo / easy parts of the game. I see less of that in the future. If I'm wrong, GREAT. But that's what I like about this game, and that seems to be unlike most MMOs out there. Heck, I might check out "The Old Republic" as well as CoH, because, from its description, you can run through the game 8 times, once with all 8 of the classes, but it's a story arc. Fully voiced. Teams are optional. Seems like that could be a good game for us "introverts". And no, Lucas isn't paying me to mention it here. For all I know, I'll be fined for saying so without his permission, hehe.
Bronze Knight, I'm here... because of the game engine. I played EQ because that's where my friends were. Now they moved on. Some came here. But I'd love... LOVE CoH to be single player, or "invite your wife and friend to your IP address" like Baldur's Gate. I love the engine and content and difficulty a LOT. But it's an MMO, so, I suck up the fact I have to team from time to time. But that's a necessary evil, not a fun thing. It's also not fun to team with me. I'm old, lots of meds and illnesses, a daughter who has similar meds/health issues, so I AFK... A LOT. That's why I prefer to be the secondary tank. Otherwise, everyone's evening is shot just because they have to "wait for Redeemer again". I prefer not to inflict myself on others if I can help it.
Oh, and unlike many others here, I suck at games in general. But CoH is very forgiving about things. My main is a Tanker with no Taunt for God's sakes. Heh. If CoH becomes less forgiving, and more skill based, I'll either learn, or play less. I just get worried that the bar goes higher, and therefore, I can't reach it, or get badges, and I'll lose the enjoyment out of this game, but that's my problem. By the way = I *AM* the lowest common denominator, heh.
Quote:
You probably won't believe me (since anyone who doesn't have your exact experience is apparently not a "real" introvert), but I do know how that feels. Social interaction *does* drain my reserves. After an evening of teaming up, even if it's just with my SG, I feel the need to go and solo for a bit, just to rest my nerves.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
You're probably not as introverted as you think, then. You can be "shy" but extroverted (my brother is this), and you can be outgoing and introverted (as I am.)
Even just teaming is social interaction, the action of characters working together towards a goal, having the action of those other characters affect you and the fight around you, having to adjust tactics because of the actions of those other characters are all things that can drain introverts. |
And yet I still manage to run TFs, get on pick-up groups, and get Alpha boosts on my various characters. And I have fun doing it. Yes, it's draining, but it's also fun. After I'm done getting my next component on one of my 50s, I can run some Tip missions or level one of my alts for a bit, to have some different fun that also recharges me.
It's perfectly understandable if you don't like team content enough to expend effort on it, if the "social energy drained" is not worth the "fun gained" for you. But I don't agree with your assertion that new team-focused content is a bad direction for the game to take.
Character index
Quote:
You are someone that likes everything that every single other person in the game likes, and absolutely nothing else?|
Originally Posted by Fiery_Redeemer
By the way = I *AM* the lowest common denominator, heh.
|
(Sorry, pet peeve. You're thinking of the greatest common factor, along with everyone else on the planet that misuses that term).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I also don't mind that we fail the ITF or LRSF (nor do we consistently or routinely fail). I just don't want to see content much above that level, because we do sometimes still fail them. Content much above the level where we sometimes fail will become content that we consistently fail, which is (to me) an unacceptable level of difficulty.